Cycling Stalled, Please Help! No Ammonia, VERY HIGH Nitrite and Nitrate

[dryza]

Hi everyone-

I'm fairly new to the hobby and have had an Evo 13.5 for about 9-10months and decided it was time for an upgrade.

My new tank is a Waterbox 50.3 AIO and I started the fishless cycle about 4 weeks ago (CaribSea Dry Sand & LifeRock). I went the route of Dr. Tim's One and Only, First Defense and Ammonium drops and watched his cycling video on YouTube, read all of the blogs, did a ton of research, THEN I made the worse Rookie mistake of overdosing Ammonium (SOOO KICKING MYSELF RIGHT NOW).

1 week ago (week 3) my Ammonia was dropping steady, my Nitrite and Nitrate were off the chart. Knowing my Nitrite/Nitrate were going to continue climbing, I did a 30% water change which brought my Ammonia down to about 1ppm, and after about 24hrs the Ammonia dropped to 0, BUT the Nitrite/Nitrate were still off the chart (as expected).

4 days ago, I did another 30% water change and my Nitrite/Nitrate were still off the chart.

2 days ago, I did a 75% water change this time with Prime and my Nitrite are still very high (dark purple), but my Nitrate dropped to about 25ppm.

The fact that I have Nitrite and Nitrate proves that the nitrifying bacteria present, although the bacteria that converts Nitrite to Nitrate are likely not developed enough to consume all that Nitrite, HOWEVER I've also read that very high Nitrite could stall them from developing (???)

At this point, I don't know what to do, I could do another massive water change or do I just wait it out?? I'm reluctant to add any ammonia as I'm sure that will just compound the Nitrite/Nitrate issue. BUT, with no Ammonia in the tank, won't the Nitrifying bacteria deplete?? Double edge sword...

PS. I have a bottle of FritzZyme 9 Nitrifying Bacteria, but wasn't sure if I should add it because 1) During initial cycle I used Dr. Tim's One and Only and reason number 2) Nitrifying Bacteria need Ammonia first and I really don't want to add any more given the high Nitrite/Nitrate situation.

Any feedback or advise would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

 

[Cell]

Nitrite is not harmful in our saltwater tanks.

Nitrate cannot be accurately measured in the presence of nitrite.

Where did your existing live rock from your previous tank go? If you transferred it over to the new tank, you had no need for additional bottled bac. Either way, I'd do a water change and start stocking slowly.

 

[brandon429]

concur.

if in doubt of parameters, do what we did in this tank and this cycle is back on track:

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

after your water change of all of it

don't re test again using those kits you'll drive yourself to hating cycling, reefing, the whole lot. Trust your timing and # of days underwater after the changeout.

post a shot here of your reef you have pls

 

[brandon429]

prime now causes misreads, I dont think you have any issues



now that I reread fifty gallons isnt exactly cheap or easy to produce...about to forego that full water change and default to Cell's offer. your current water is misreading due to prime use, nothing is stalled.

 

[Lyss]

Hi everyone-

I'm fairly new to the hobby and have had an Evo 13.5 for about 9-10months and decided it was time for an upgrade.

My new tank is a Waterbox 50.3 AIO and I started the fishless cycle about 4 weeks ago (CaribSea Dry Sand & LifeRock). I went the route of Dr. Tim's One and Only, First Defense and Ammonium drops and watched his cycling video on YouTube, read all of the blogs, did a ton of research, THEN I made the worse Rookie mistake of overdosing Ammonium (SOOO KICKING MYSELF RIGHT NOW).

1 week ago (week 3) my Ammonia was dropping steady, my Nitrite and Nitrate were off the chart. Knowing my Nitrite/Nitrate were going to continue climbing, I did a 30% water change which brought my Ammonia down to about 1ppm, and after about 24hrs the Ammonia dropped to 0, BUT the Nitrite/Nitrate were still off the chart (as expected).

4 days ago, I did another 30% water change and my Nitrite/Nitrate were still off the chart.

2 days ago, I did a 75% water change this time with Prime and my Nitrite are still very high (dark purple), but my Nitrate dropped to about 25ppm.

The fact that I have Nitrite and Nitrate proves that the nitrifying bacteria present, although the bacteria that converts Nitrite to Nitrate are likely not developed enough to consume all that Nitrite, HOWEVER I've also read that very high Nitrite could stall them from developing (???)

At this point, I don't know what to do, I could do another massive water change or do I just wait it out?? I'm reluctant to add any ammonia as I'm sure that will just compound the Nitrite/Nitrate issue. BUT, with no Ammonia in the tank, won't the Nitrifying bacteria deplete?? Double edge sword...

PS. I have a bottle of FritzZyme 9 Nitrifying Bacteria, but wasn't sure if I should add it because 1) During initial cycle I used Dr. Tim's One and Only and reason number 2) Nitrifying Bacteria need Ammonia first and I really don't want to add any more given the high Nitrite/Nitrate situation.

Any feedback or advise would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

So, I did the accidental ammonia overdose when I cycled my tank -- I didn't realize that the rocks would leach some in addition to what I dosed. I did do one small water change once the nitrite was massively off the charts, but after that I just rode it out. Took about a month and one day the nitrites just dropped to zero and that was that. I did end up with crazy high nitrates at the end so had to do a bunch of water changes then to remove those before I added my fish.

I think using Prime while doing a fishless cycle can interfere with the cycle as well as your testing. If it was me, I would dose more bacteria and ride it out.

 

[dryza]

Wow... I TRULY LOVE this forum and the level of amazing support from everyone! You all are a godsend to us Noobs!

I haven't messed with my current Evo as I didn't want to disturb all my little buddies homes and aquascape!

Here's a pic of my current Evo.

 

[Cell]

Worth noting, your tank would cycle with just an ammonia source and nothing else after about 4 weeks. Here, you went almost 4 weeks with bottled bac.

 

[brandon429]

just to make sure Im clear, that pic above is the tank in question right

is there another newer tank you've been cycling and waiting on? need to see it so we can see ratios of rocks and sand


when I used to not ask for those, annually someone would post pics of a totally empty tank of water they were cycling. heh

 

[Cell]

Pic above is the original tank. Upgrade tank is the one in question.

If you can spare a rock or two from the evo, I would drop it into the new tank.

 

[brandon429]

well done Cell for sure

if this was a rodeo and that cycle was a hog running wild in the arena u just tied it quick

 

[dryza]

concur.

if in doubt of parameters, do what we did in this tank and this cycle is back on track:

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

after your water change of all of it

don't re test again using those kits you'll drive yourself to hating cycling, reefing, the whole lot. Trust your timing and # of days underwater after the changeout.

post a shot here of your reef you have pls

@brandon429 - This is an awesome thread and I wish I had seen it before I started my cycling.. Methodology is ROCK SOLID and would eliminate so much frustration that noobs run into when cycling a tank and thinking the process has stalled...

 

[brandon429]

I really agree that tank and any others with a large initial dose might take weeks on api to clear the wastewater, that's exactly what old cycling requires. what we do there is intercept the stew on or about day ten and change all that water out, leaving working slicks behind, then when they build a reef on it there's no where near such initial loading to clear each day. when large tanks dose bigtime its harder to run that small cheat

 

[dryza]

Here's my new Waterbox that I'm trying to cycle. I have a pair of HD Prime light, but haven't put them on yet, awaiting the cycle to complete.

Please do note I also have Seneye and part of the reason I overdosed was related to the fact that I was unaware of how Seneye calculates NH3 vs. how API/Red Sea, etc.. calculate Ammonia. Lesson learned.

 

[brandon429]

thats a fantastic setup. mind if we get some of that rare rare seneye data from you/we are still trying to assess Prime's impact on those kits too. its very rare to have one as an umpire.

can you take that seneye and post your current nh3 reading in the excellent running reef, then move it over to that one above and post the differences? let sit 30 mins or so on each...truest reading possible

so curious to see how that shows a differential if any

per what Cell said, and the wait time here, that bottom tank can carry fish right now. Can't wait to see what seneye shows on these two. seneyes in homes that have one ready reef, one in question, are rare opportunities to study patterns/rare gold.

 

[dryza]

thats a fantastic setup. mind if we get some of that rare rare seneye data from you/we are still trying to assess Prime's impact on those kits too. its very rare to have one as an umpire.

can you take that seneye and post your current nh3 reading in the excellent running reef, then move it over to that one above and post the differences? let sit 30 mins or so on each...truest reading possible

so curious to see how that shows a differential if any

per what Cell said, and the wait time here, that bottom tank can carry fish right now. Can't wait to see what seneye shows on these two. seneyes in homes that have one ready reef, one in question, are rare opportunities to study patterns/rare gold.

Absolutely- I'll do that once I'm done with my meetings and post the results with screenshots of Seneye dashboard results for both.

Here's the current readings for the new Waterbox

 

[brandon429]

hey do u ever see that .001 move up in the good tank, like with feedings or rock move arounds

in order to get some idea on calibration for the unit its handy to see it fluxing at times if possible. its not like the current system up top is packed in fish, its a very low bioload/very high surface area system so total nh3 control isnt impossible its just rare, these are usually running .002-.009 and the nh4 measures look confoundingly high just initial assessment.

the pH doesnt look bad at all above.

*those are the readings from the full running reef with nothing dosed, nothing added today is that right

making sure I'm linking those charts to the right tank

 

[dryza]

Those readings are from my new Waterbox tank that which i'm currently cycling. When I get a chance later today, I'll move it over to the active Evo reef tank which has livestock and send a screenshot of the readings.

 

[brandon429]

ok good I was thinking reverse above. can't wait to see, really helpful umpire / digital here.

 

[dryza]

Hello @brandon429 ,
Quick update: Last night I moved the Seneye sensor over to the established Evo Tank and when when I was viewing the Seneye Dashboard I realized the NH3 stats were hung since 8:35AM. Did some research and saw a support article from Seneye indicating the Dashboard Graphs can become hung and therefore require Seneye Support to reset. Based on this article (click here) the data is not lost and will become visible once they reset it. I'll post the result from my established tank once the graph is reset.

Hello @Cell - Last night I placed two pieces of liverock from my established tank inside the New Waterbox per your suggestion. Appreciate the advise on this one.

 

[dryza]

So, I did the accidental ammonia overdose when I cycled my tank -- I didn't realize that the rocks would leach some in addition to what I dosed. I did do one small water change once the nitrite was massively off the charts, but after that I just rode it out. Took about a month and one day the nitrites just dropped to zero and that was that. I did end up with crazy high nitrates at the end so had to do a bunch of water changes then to remove those before I added my fish.

I think using Prime while doing a fishless cycle can interfere with the cycle as well as your testing. If it was me, I would dose more bacteria and ride it out.

Thanks fro the feedback @Lyss. Its somewhat comforting to know other have had the same trouble and managed to come out the other side successfully!