Cycling tank with Fish

Leo62287

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Hello all. I started to cycle my 32G Biocube yesterday. I used dried rock. I followed the method from BRS 5 minute saltwater aquarium guide which said to add fish and live bacteria to the tank. I used Dr. TIM'S One and Only and MicroBacter7. I overdosed the tank. Today, the fish were dead and the water was so cloudy I couldn't see the rock. I tested the water and had zero Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Please tell me where I went wrong. I wasn't trying to rush the Nitrogen cycle. I just wanted to try cycling the tank with fish.
 

Redfoxtang

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First welcome to R2R! How much of the live bacteria did you add? Sounds like you might have overdosed and depleted all oxygen for the fish and that’s why they died. Basically you have a massive bacterial bloom. I would do a water change and run some carbon for a couple days.
 

Lasse

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Cycling tank with fish is inhumane. Please research tank cycling again.

Sounds like a bacterial bloom which cause low dissolved O2.
In which way is it inhumane?

Sincerely Lasse
 

piranhaman00

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In which way is it inhumane?

Sincerely Lasse

The part where it is swimming around in ammonia until the bacterial population grows.

Of course, OP used a bacterial supplement, which would erase my comment. I commented when I awoke and didnt read properly ;)
 
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If you are using Dr. Tims one & only, try using their ammonium chloride drops instead of a live fish, or a raw shrimp, or ghost feeding the tank. I feel like the previously listed methods are old school, slower, and no longer needed.
Instructions Here
 
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Leo62287

Leo62287

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First welcome to R2R! How much of the live bacteria did you add? Sounds like you might have overdosed and depleted all oxygen for the fish and that’s why they died. Basically you have a massive bacterial bloom. I would do a water change and run some carbon for a couple days.
20201024_104105.jpg


I added 60 oz of MicroBacter7 and 6 oz of Dr. TIM'S One and Only. How much of a water change should I do? Its a 32G system. Thank you for your help. I'm attaching a pic of how the water looks.
 

Kinjirra

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I was under the impression you couldnt OD on the live bottle bac but maybe because he mixed two brands? I remember reading somewhere that the microbacter isnt supposed to be mixed but not sure. I started my cycle with only Tims and 2 clowns and didnt have that issue at all. Im 3 weeks in with 3 fish and a evil(but pretty) snail eating shrimp. I have been running Carbon from the start as well..

OP hope you get it figured out! Sorry for the fishy loss.
 

cshouston

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20201024_104105.jpg


I added 60 oz of MicroBacter7 and 6 oz of Dr. TIM'S One and Only. How much of a water change should I do? Its a 32G system. Thank you for your help. I'm attaching a pic of how the water looks.

60 OUNCES of microbacter7?! The instructions call for 5ml per 25 gallons, or 0.17 ounces. They definitely suffocated. I wouldn’t do a water change, just increase the aeration and continue the cycle with ammonium chloride drops. That, and read instructions before doing things going forward.
 
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Leo62287

Leo62287

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60 OUNCES of microbacter7?! The instructions call for 5ml per 25 gallons, or 0.17 ounces. They definitely suffocated. I wouldn’t do a water change, just increase the aeration and continue the cycle with ammonium chloride drops. That, and read instructions before doing things going forward.

Thank you. I will definitely read instructions going forward.
 

Lasse

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I added 60 oz of MicroBacter7 and 6 oz of Dr. TIM'S One and Only. How much of a water change should I do? Its a 32G system. Thank you for your help. I'm attaching a pic of how the water looks.
You have done one of the most classic mistake in a start up situation. You have add both autotrophic nitrification bacteria ( Dr. TIM'S One and Only ) and heterotrophic bacteria - probably with a organic carbon source too ( MicroBacter7)- the later will compete out the nitrification bacteria very fast. The other mistake was to add a huge amount of microbacter 7 - you get an uncontrolled growth of heterotropic bacteria that probable deplete all oxygen in the aquarium. One and only can´t be overdosed but microbacter 7 can - that you have shown in a very drastic way.

I would advise you to restart the whole thing - 100 % WC and cleaning everything especially the sand. After that restart your system with a fish and ONLY Dr Tims One and Only as additive - please read this for more information about a proper start of an aquarium with fish.

Cycling tank with fish is inhumane. Please research tank cycling again.

Sounds like a bacterial bloom which cause low dissolved O2.
The part where it is swimming around in ammonia until the bacterial population grows.

Of course, OP used a bacterial supplement, which would erase my comment. I commented when I awoke and didnt read properly ;)

I do not see it as inhuman - no human will be hurt :D

I think you mean infishan :D

Jokes aside - I do not see a start with a fish as ammonia releaser to be cruel in any way if it is done the proper way - IMO it is the best way of starting a saltwater aquarium. Please see the article I referred to above

Sincerely Lasse
 
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Leo62287

Leo62287

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You have done one of the most classic mistake in a start up situation. You have add both autotrophic nitrification bacteria ( Dr. TIM'S One and Only ) and heterotrophic bacteria - probably with a organic carbon source too ( MicroBacter7)- the later will compete out the nitrification bacteria very fast. The other mistake was to add a huge amount of microbacter 7 - you get an uncontrolled growth of heterotropic bacteria that probable deplete all oxygen in the aquarium. One and only can´t be overdosed but microbacter 7 can - that you have shown in a very drastic way.

I would advise you to restart the whole thing - 100 % WC and cleaning everything especially the sand. After that restart your system with a fish and ONLY Dr Tims One and Only as additive - please read this for more information about a proper start of an aquarium with fish.




I do not see it as inhuman - no human will be hurt :D

I think you mean infishan :D

Jokes aside - I do not see a start with a fish as ammonia releaser to be cruel in any way if it is done the proper way - IMO it is the best way of starting a saltwater aquarium. Please see the article I referred to above

Sincerely Lasse
Thank you. I will follow your instructions. Should I just replace the sand or use a gravel vac?
 

Pistol Peet

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Hello all. I started to cycle my 32G Biocube yesterday. I used dried rock. I followed the method from BRS 5 minute saltwater aquarium guide which said to add fish and live bacteria to the tank. I used Dr. TIM'S One and Only and MicroBacter7. I overdosed the tank. Today, the fish were dead and the water was so cloudy I couldn't see the rock. I tested the water and had zero Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Please tell me where I went wrong. I wasn't trying to rush the Nitrogen cycle. I just wanted to try cycling the tank with fish.
Definitely a bacterial bloom you don't need to use dr. Tims One and Only Live Nutri flying bacteria and microbacter7 together at the same time some of Brightwell Aquatics microbacter products are not compatible with other bacterial additives also I would try to pick up a UV sterilizer from BRS pintair would be my recommendation on the brand this will keep bacteria Blooms from happening also clear them up within a matter of hours I know that there's some people on here that'll say not to add UV sterilizer right away I put one on every single tank I have immediately even during the cycling process and had great results no bacteria blooms no fish deaths I did not however add fish to help the cycle I would empty out all the water I would get the Dr Tims one and only nutria find bacteria again and I would also get his ammonia additive that he has put the bacteria in the tank add the ammonia per instructions this will bring the ammonia level up to 2 parts per million let the bacteria do its job and bring it down to zero put the ammonia back in the tank bringing it up to two parts per million again let it go back down to zero congratulations you are now cycled with your new tank it is literally that simple this is how I cycled all of my tank and it's usually done within a matter of two to three weeks good luck.
 

cshouston

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Thank you. I will follow your instructions. Should I just replace the sand or use a gravel vac?

I have a lot of respect for Lasse, but I think completely restarting the tank is a bit extreme.

Your tank still has beneficial bacteria, it’s just out of whack. If you get ammonium chloride drops from Dr. Tim’s or ammonium chloride powder from Fritz, you can feed the bacteria and proceed with a fishless cycle.

Eventually, the bacteria will settle and reach an equilibrium. If it makes you feel better, you can do a 50-75% water change to clear it up a bit (the majority of clarification will occur over the next couple of days).

If you do decide to start over, I don’t think you need to replace the sand, just siphon it well as you remove the water.
 

cshouston

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Definitely a bacterial bloom you don't need to use dr. Tims One and Only Live Nutri flying bacteria and microbacter7 together at the same time some of Brightwell Aquatics microbacter products are not compatible with other bacterial additives also I would try to pick up a UV sterilizer from BRS pintair would be my recommendation on the brand this will keep bacteria Blooms from happening also clear them up within a matter of hours I know that there's some people on here that'll say not to add UV sterilizer right away I put one on every single tank I have immediately even during the cycling process and had great results no bacteria blooms no fish deaths I did not however add fish to help the cycle I would empty out all the water I would get the Dr Tims one and only nutria find bacteria again and I would also get his ammonia additive that he has put the bacteria in the tank add the ammonia per instructions this will bring the ammonia level up to 2 parts per million let the bacteria do its job and bring it down to zero put the ammonia back in the tank bringing it up to two parts per million again let it go back down to zero congratulations you are now cycled with your new tank it is literally that simple this is how I cycled all of my tank and it's usually done within a matter of two to three weeks good luck.
Holy run-on sentence, Batman! :p
 

sfin52

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You have done one of the most classic mistake in a start up situation. You have add both autotrophic nitrification bacteria ( Dr. TIM'S One and Only ) and heterotrophic bacteria - probably with a organic carbon source too ( MicroBacter7)- the later will compete out the nitrification bacteria very fast. The other mistake was to add a huge amount of microbacter 7 - you get an uncontrolled growth of heterotropic bacteria that probable deplete all oxygen in the aquarium. One and only can´t be overdosed but microbacter 7 can - that you have shown in a very drastic way.

I would advise you to restart the whole thing - 100 % WC and cleaning everything especially the sand. After that restart your system with a fish and ONLY Dr Tims One and Only as additive - please read this for more information about a proper start of an aquarium with fish.




I do not see it as inhuman - no human will be hurt :D

I think you mean infishan :D

Jokes aside - I do not see a start with a fish as ammonia releaser to be cruel in any way if it is done the proper way - IMO it is the best way of starting a saltwater aquarium. Please see the article I referred to above

Sincerely Lasse
I want to laugh and like. Your sense of humor is great.
I also start tanks with fish no different than qt a fish in a sterile environment.
 

Arabyps

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I have cycled using bacteria in a bottle with fish multiple times. I would recommend Fritz TurboStart 900 or Microbacter XLM (per instructions). You have to make sure the culture in the bottle is viable (i.e. not past expiration date, not subjected to high or freezing temperatures). Also don't add fish at the same time with the bacteria. Wait a day and add one or two small fish. Slowly build the bio-load.
 

Dominic M

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You have done one of the most classic mistake in a start up situation. You have add both autotrophic nitrification bacteria ( Dr. TIM'S One and Only ) and heterotrophic bacteria - probably with a organic carbon source too ( MicroBacter7)- the later will compete out the nitrification bacteria very fast. The other mistake was to add a huge amount of microbacter 7 - you get an uncontrolled growth of heterotropic bacteria that probable deplete all oxygen in the aquarium. One and only can´t be overdosed but microbacter 7 can - that you have shown in a very drastic way.

I would advise you to restart the whole thing - 100 % WC and cleaning everything especially the sand. After that restart your system with a fish and ONLY Dr Tims One and Only as additive - please read this for more information about a proper start of an aquarium with fish.




I do not see it as inhuman - no human will be hurt :D

I think you mean infishan :D

Jokes aside - I do not see a start with a fish as ammonia releaser to be cruel in any way if it is done the proper way - IMO it is the best way of starting a saltwater aquarium. Please see the article I referred to above

Sincerely Lasse
Hi could you please look at my thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/is-my-tank-ready-for-fish.769941/
A lot of people tell me to do it fishless and some say you can do it with fish, and many reputable youtube channels such as bulkreefsupply, coralfish12g, and saltwateraquarium say they do it with fish. Im kinda torn on what route I should take people seem to be pretty divided on this topic.
 

Lasse

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Thank you. I will follow your instructions. Should I just replace the sand or use a gravel vac?

Just clean it a little - gravel vac would probably be good

I have a lot of respect for Lasse, but I think completely restarting the tank is a bit extreme. Your tank still has beneficial bacteria, it’s just out of whack. If you get ammonium chloride drops from Dr. Tim’s or ammonium chloride powder from Fritz, you can feed the bacteria and proceed with a fishless cycle. Eventually, the bacteria will settle and reach an equilibrium. If it makes you feel better, you can do a 50-75% water change to clear it up a bit (the majority of clarification will occur over the next couple of days). If you do decide to start over, I don’t think you need to replace the sand, just siphon it well as you remove the water.

I use not to recommend drastic things - my melody is more - take it easy and relax. But in this case with starting an aquarium and heterotrophic bacteria is another case. When you start an new aquarium from scratch - it is like an unwritten book - you have full control in what will be on the pages. The most important task to solve during the first weeks is to establish the nitrification cycle. It can be done in different way but one thing needs to be remembered.

The nitrification bacteria is slow growers, need a free surface to attach to and are autotrophs (like algaes and plants) but use the energy differences between NH3/NH4 - NO2 - NO3 in order to get energy - not photons from the light. They use HCO3/CO3/CO2 as carbon source and inorganic nutrients as NH3/NH4 and PO4 as building blocks. They also need a lot of oxygen. A newly started saltwater aquarium with aone fish will slowly bring NH3/NH4 and PO4 to the water, the water is rich in inorganic carbon (HCO3/CO3/CO2) - rich in oxygen and a lot of open surface for them to attach - they will slowly occupy free space.

However - the heterotrophic bacteria is fast growers with the right environment. They need surface, organic carbon and mostly organic nutrients and a lot of oxygen. You can see that there is important differences. A newly started saltwater aquarium is rich in inorganic carbon but nearly no organic carbon - it is also rather much inorganic nutrients if you use a fish (NH3/NH4 through the gills) and free PO4 from the poop but rather poor in organic nutrients - the bacteria needs to break down the poop first. With other words - you have an ideal situation the first weeks to establish good nitrification and hinder the fast growing heterotrophs from invade all surfaces and just outcompete the nitrification bacteria because of their fast growth. I´m strongly against every method that incorporate both nitrification bacteria and heterotrophic bacteria (and organic carbon) the first weeks.

In this case - heterotrophic bacteria is everywhere and the organic carbon in the microbacter 7 is just fueling their growth - and leave no space for the slow growing nitrification bacteria. You will never ever establish a good nitrification in this aquarium within a reasonable time. All organic carbon and most of the heterotrophic bacteria must go away before the nitrification would have any chance at all.

This is reason why I have an extreme standpoint in this case - just 100 % WC (you can do that - no animals or organisms that can be harmed by 100 % WC in the aquarium) and clean from as much as heterotrophic bacteria as possible.

Hi could you please look at my thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/is-my-tank-ready-for-fish.769941/
A lot of people tell me to do it fishless and some say you can do it with fish, and many reputable youtube channels such as bulkreefsupply, coralfish12g, and saltwateraquarium say they do it with fish. Im kinda torn on what route I should take people seem to be pretty divided on this topic.
Please see my article 15 steps to start........

Sincerely Lasse
 
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