Cycling with Dr.Tim’s one and only

[Coxey81]

Ammonia is at 0.05 ppm last dose was Tuesday
Nitrite is below 0.1 and I’m not showing nitrates
I’m using a seachem nitrite/nitrate test so it’s hard to be exact.
Yes plenty of water circulating plus an air stone

.05 ppm is really low for NH4+NH3 after 3 drops per gallon with not much nitrite and no nitrate.

Is the .05ppm NH3 only?

 

[Hilltopreef90]

.05 ppm is really low for NH4+NH3 after 3 drops per gallon with not much nitrite and no nitrate.

Is the .05ppm NH3 only?

Yes

 

[Coxey81]

Yes

Ok, so yeah, you are right where I expect you to be after 3 drops if almost none was processed. 3ppm NH4+NH3

Thanks, you just helped more confirm that Dr. Tim's 4 drops a gallon is a overdose!

4 drops per gallon is supposed to give you 2ppm. But we have confirmed that it's more like 2 drops per gallon. So your 3 drops giving you 3ppm NH4+NH3 lines right up with us.

Now, you haven't processed basically any of it yet. So you definitely don't want to add any.

You said you added the one and only bacteria.

You have it heated, and circulating correct?

 

[Hilltopreef90]

Ok, so yeah, you are right where I expect you to be after 3 drops if almost none was processed. 3ppm NH4+NH3

Thanks, you just helped more confirm that Dr. Tim's 4 drops a gallon is a overdose!

4 drops per gallon is supposed to give you 2ppm. But we have confirmed that it's more like 2 drops per gallon. So your 3 drops giving you 3ppm NH4+NH3 lines right up with us.

Now, you haven't processed basically any of it yet. So you definitely don't want to add any.

You said you added the one and only bacteria.

You have it heated, and circulating correct?

Yes and yes, I read that it takes longer to cycle quarantine tanks because they’re basically empty, I did add a piece of sponge and the air stone is in there as well

 

[Coxey81]

Yes and yes, I read that it takes longer to cycle quarantine tanks because they’re basically empty, I did add a piece of sponge and the air stone is in there as well

Cool, then I would give it a few days and retest.

Gonna take a while for them to build up.

Just keep topping with rodi and wait.

If you aren't seeing any progress after 4 days I would consider adding some more bacteria

 

[Coxey81]

Yes and yes, I read that it takes longer to cycle quarantine tanks because they’re basically empty, I did add a piece of sponge and the air stone is in there as well

If you keep some sponge filters in your sump for several months you can quick cycle a qt with it.

 

[Hilltopreef90]

If you keep some sponge filters in your sump for several months you can quick cycle a qt with it.

Should I wait to do a water change until it’s cycled? I’m using an ammonia alert badge to monitor the ammonia, it’s still on the light green color, I’m assuming once it changes to yellow it means no ammonia? I’m using a dip stick also and it’s also still showing ammonia.
This is the first time I’ve ever cycled a tank using Dr. Time one and only or not having any live rock sand or other things in it to help cycle. It’s not quite been a week since I started the process and it’s a quarantine tank so I’m assuming it’s gonna take a little longer

 

[Hilltopreef90]

I wouldn't do rock since you are going to add meds to it. Theyll soak up the copper..

Sponge of some type will work great.

What if I use small pieces of rock for the cycling purposes and once I’ve used any type of medication just throw the rocks away Or will it cause problems or interfere with using medication

 

[Garia666]

Strange i had to use first defense and after 30 min the one and only.

 

[Coxey81]

Should I wait to do a water change until it’s cycled? I’m using an ammonia alert badge to monitor the ammonia, it’s still on the light green color, I’m assuming once it changes to yellow it means no ammonia? I’m using a dip stick also and it’s also still showing ammonia.
This is the first time I’ve ever cycled a tank using Dr. Time one and only or not having any live rock sand or other things in it to help cycle. It’s not quite been a week since I started the process and it’s a quarantine tank so I’m assuming it’s gonna take a little longer

Yeah, you can use the ammonia badge to monitor it, but I'd check it with a test kit to be sure it's processed. Dip stick at least.

 

[Coxey81]

What if I use small pieces of rock for the cycling purposes and once I’ve used any type of medication just throw the rocks away Or will it cause problems or interfere with using medication

It seems like I read rocks would absorb the copper and not make it work as well. I'd stick to some type of sponge, etc.

 

[Hilltopreef90]

It seems like I read rocks would absorb the copper and not make it work as well. I'd stick to some type of sponge, etc.

Yeah, you can use the ammonia badge to monitor it, but I'd check it with a test kit to be sure it's processed. Dip stick at least.

I’m showing no nitrite, 0.05 ammonia and 1.9 ppm nitrate , when will it be safe to quarantine fish ?

 

[Coxey81]

I’m showing no nitrite, 0.05 ammonia and 1.9 ppm nitrate , when will it be safe to quarantine fish ?

The ammonia should eventually go to to zero, nitrite will go up then down, and nitrates will go up. The bacteria is processing ammonia to nitrate.

Once the ammonia is zero and nitrites are zero then the ammonia has been processed (but it needs to be processed in 24 hours). Redose 2 drops per gallon (2ppm). Test after 24 hours. If it's processed your good to go.


If it's not keep checking daily until it is. Then dose the 2 drops per gallon again and see if it's processed in 24 hours.

Keep doing that til it's processed in 24 hours.


That is d. Tim's instructions.

If you are just adding one small fish though, 1ppm (1drop per gallon) processed in 24 hours will be fine imo.

 

[GARRIGA]

Since it’s a QT and at some point might require copper treatment then rocks or any media that absorbs copper and potentially retains it wouldn’t be the best route. Better to use something like Matrix.

Just finished another Fishless cycle. Don’t recall exact number of days but it was quick. Didn’t repeat the ammonium chloride until both ammonia and nitrites were zero. I don’t bother checking nitrates until that’s working since you can and will have all three and the cycle still not complete. Once ammonia and nitrite are clearing up within a day then I stress test the system by increasing the ammonium chloride to ensure it can handle a larger bio load. Keeping the ammonia still below 5 ppm and same for nitrites. At this point nitrates should be through the roof and a water change in order unless trying for full cycle and denitrification. Might as well put it to good use and save money on salt.

Google Dr Tim MACNA as he does an excellent presentation which includes tidbits on salinity and temperature I hadn’t been aware of. Supposedly low salinity such as 10 ppt and elevated temperatures to 86 degrees assists in establishing nitrifiers. I miscalculated on salt and had it at 35 ppt but have since dropped it down to 12.6 ppt as I’m establishing denitrification and thinking perhaps it helps with that as well. Temp however maxed at 78 because I undersized the heater to ensure a stuck thermostat doesn’t fry my inhabitants. Seems to be working. Plus I want to introduce Sailfin mollies as I’ll avoid quarantine since freshwater parasites won’t survive in salt and can slowly increase salinity. Goal is to maximize the bio load and test out my theory. Also using matrix like media as that’s very porous and great for filtration.

 

[ReefingIsMyTherapy]

Ok, so yeah, you are right where I expect you to be after 3 drops if almost none was processed. 3ppm NH4+NH3

Thanks, you just helped more confirm that Dr. Tim's 4 drops a gallon is a overdose!

4 drops per gallon is supposed to give you 2ppm. But we have confirmed that it's more like 2 drops per gallon. So your 3 drops giving you 3ppm NH4+NH3 lines right up with us.

Now, you haven't processed basically any of it yet. So you definitely don't want to add any.

You said you added the one and only bacteria.

You have it heated, and circulating correct?

I just posted a new thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/problems-cycling-with-dr-tims-one-and-only.884566/) describing my problem and based on your comments, it seems that I might have overdosed my tank How is that the reef community knows 4 drops is way too much, yet the label on Dr Tim's products has not been updated??

If the only solution after waiting a few days, and not seeing the level going down, is to buy another bottle of bacteria, that looks like a very deceptive business strategy to make us purchase more product :/

I just wish that I had seen this post before.

 

[GARRIGA]

I just posted a new thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/problems-cycling-with-dr-tims-one-and-only.884566/) describing my problem and based on your comments, it seems that I might have overdosed my tank How is that the reef community knows 4 drops is way too much, yet the label on Dr Tim's products has not been updated??

If the only solution after waiting a few days, and not seeing the level going down, is to buy another bottle of bacteria, that looks like a very deceptive business strategy to make us purchase more product :/

I just wish that I had seen this post before.

My mantra is to apply half recommended then test and go from there. Every system is different and we guesstimate tank volume different. Few of us likely know this exact volume and it becomes more art then science.

Quick test. Fill a jug with one gallon of tap. Add a drop then shake then test it. Keep adding one drop until you get 4 ppm. Now you know the strength of the solution in hand. Would still apply at half dosage and test it.

 

[Coxey81]

I just posted a new thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/problems-cycling-with-dr-tims-one-and-only.884566/) describing my problem and based on your comments, it seems that I might have overdosed my tank How is that the reef community knows 4 drops is way too much, yet the label on Dr Tim's products has not been updated??

If the only solution after waiting a few days, and not seeing the level going down, is to buy another bottle of bacteria, that looks like a very deceptive business strategy to make us purchase more product :/

I just wish that I had seen this post before.

Sorry, I can't answer your question about why they have not updated their label.

Our guess was that they are trying to play it safe to make sure enough ammonia is dosed. So they erred on the safe side with the solution and with the drops... but the combination leads to a mass over dose.

As long as you are below 5ppm the bacteria colony should grow and the ammonia will eventually be processed. It will just take longer than expected.

Most bacteria settles after a few days on surfaces (rocks, substrate, glass, equipment, etc). So you should be able to do a water change to lower the ammonia level if you wish without removing much of the bacteria

 

[Coxey81]

Doublepost

 

[ReefingIsMyTherapy]

Sorry, I can't answer your question about why they have not updated their label.

Our guess was that they are trying to play it safe to make sure enough ammonia is dosed. So they erred on the safe side with the solution and with the drops... but the combination leads to a mass over dose.

As long as you are below 5ppm the bacteria colony should grow and the ammonia will eventually be processed. It will just take longer than expected.

Most bacteria settles after a few days on surfaces (rocks, substrate, glass, equipment, etc). So you should be able to do a water change to lower the ammonia level if you wish without removing much of the bacteria

@Coxey81 thanks for the recommendations. My ammonia ended up going down at day 11 of the cycle and been at zero since. However, my nitrites are at 1 (that's the max my Red Sea kit can report).

I reached out to Dr Tim's support and they suggested to do a 25% water change to help with the high nitrites. I finished the water change a few hours ago and tested for nitrites and nitrates and to my surprise I still got 1 and nitrates at 20. I'm puzzled and disappointed with the results I will test again tomorrow, but I was expecting to see an immediate reduction in nitrites after the 25% water change. Any idea on why nitrites did not go down?

 

[Coxey81]

@Coxey81 thanks for the recommendations. My ammonia ended up going down at day 11 of the cycle and been at zero since. However, my nitrites are at 1 (that's the max my Red Sea kit can report).

I reached out to Dr Tim's support and they suggested to do a 25% water change to help with the high nitrites. I finished the water change a few hours ago and tested for nitrites and nitrates and to my surprise I still got 1 and nitrates at 20. I'm puzzled and disappointed with the results I will test again tomorrow, but I was expecting to see an immediate reduction in nitrites after the 25% water change. Any idea on why nitrites did not go down?

Yeah, so there are two different bacterias that normally complete the nitrate process.

1. Converts ammonia to nitrite.

2. Converts nitrite to nitrate.


So, at first after adding ammonia, bacteria are converting ammonia to nitrite and reproducing, colony growing etc.

But then a new colony has to grow that converts nitrite to nitrate. And that take time as well.

Since you are seeing nitrates, you know that second bacteria is present which is what you want. You just need to give them time to reproduce, grow as a colony, and process the nitrite. Just like you did with the first colony.

In the end you should have no ammonia, no nitrite, and only nitrate (which you'll need to reduce with some water changes).