Cycling with Dr Tims One and Only

[JamieB]

Hi Everyone

I just wanted a second opinon...

I've been fishless cycling a 300L tank with Dr Tims one and only for 10 days now - using bottled ammonia.
I have read and followed every detail of the instructions.

In theory I should have added the ammonia 3 times now and it should have dropped back to 0 and today should be adding first fish.
However, you guessed it, Ive only added ammonia once and its never dropped below 2ppm since.
The nitrite & nitrate numbers below clearly show the right things are happening.

Ive read its possible for the cycle to stall, if ph drops below 7 or ammonia level is too high.

The question is do i just give it loads more time or does it need a water change?
Cheers Jamie

		Temp	Salinity	pH	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate
Tuesday	27 April 2021	26.3	36	8	0	0.2	2
Wednesday	28 April 2021	26.3	36	8	much more than 2	0.1-0.2	2
Thursday	29 April 2021	26.3	36	8	much more than 2	0.2	2
Friday	30 April 2021	26.6	36	8	much more than 2	0.2	2
Saturday	01 May 2021	26.4	36	8	much more than 2	0.35	4
Sunday	02 May 2021	26.4	37.5	8	much more than 2	0.5	5
Monday	03 May 2021	26.7	38	8	more than 2	0.7	6
Tuesday	04 May 2021	26.4	34	7.6	more than 2	0.85	7
Wednesday	05 May 2021	26.5	35	7.6/8	more than 2	1	7.5

 

[KaiLio]

@brandon429

 

[JamieB]

Anybody have any thoughts on this one?

 

[BoneDoc]

It looks like it’s progressing. Your test kit for Ammonia can’t detect or resolve the amount you’re having. So even though it’s dropping , you can’t see it.

 

[Azedenkae]

Hi Everyone

I just wanted a second opinon...

I've been fishless cycling a 300L tank with Dr Tims one and only for 10 days now - using bottled ammonia.
I have read and followed every detail of the instructions.

In theory I should have added the ammonia 3 times now and it should have dropped back to 0 and today should be adding first fish.
However, you guessed it, Ive only added ammonia once and its never dropped below 2ppm since.
The nitrite & nitrate numbers below clearly show the right things are happening.

Ive read its possible for the cycle to stall, if ph drops below 7 or ammonia level is too high.

The question is do i just give it loads more time or does it need a water change?
Cheers Jamie

		Temp	Salinity	pH	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate
Tuesday	27 April 2021	26.3	36	8	0	0.2	2
Wednesday	28 April 2021	26.3	36	8	much more than 2	0.1-0.2	2
Thursday	29 April 2021	26.3	36	8	much more than 2	0.2	2
Friday	30 April 2021	26.6	36	8	much more than 2	0.2	2
Saturday	01 May 2021	26.4	36	8	much more than 2	0.35	4
Sunday	02 May 2021	26.4	37.5	8	much more than 2	0.5	5
Monday	03 May 2021	26.7	38	8	more than 2	0.7	6
Tuesday	04 May 2021	26.4	34	7.6	more than 2	0.85	7
Wednesday	05 May 2021	26.5	35	7.6/8	more than 2	1	7.5

Agreed with @BoneDoc!

Looks like it is progressing nicely. Unfortunately it is quite easy to actually end up with a higher concentration of ammonia than expected, because we often dose based on total tank volume, but actual water volume is lower so yeah, following the instructions with ammonium chloride dosing will result in the higher than 2ppm you saw.

Given that you have nitrites increasing, that means there is ammonia oxidation going on, so that's great! Can't tell if nitrite oxidation is going on, unfortunately, because the presence of nitrite causes nitrate to register higher than it should.

Based on recent threads, it seems like Dr. Tim's One and Only just do not seem to work as well as it should. But that's okay, it still seem to be introducing the nitrifiers you need.

Long story short no it is not stalled, just slower than expected. pH is fine, so is ammonia concentration.

Give it a few days, it should pick up. No water change needed, unless you just kinda want to make it harder to track how things are going.

 

[attiland]

Agreed with @BoneDoc!

Looks like it is progressing nicely. Unfortunately it is quite easy to actually end up with a higher concentration of ammonia than expected, because we often dose based on total tank volume, but actual water volume is lower so yeah, following the instructions with ammonium chloride dosing will result in the higher than 2ppm you saw.

Given that you have nitrites increasing, that means there is ammonia oxidation going on, so that's great! Can't tell if nitrite oxidation is going on, unfortunately, because the presence of nitrite causes nitrate to register higher than it should.

Based on recent threads, it seems like Dr. Tim's One and Only just do not seem to work as well as it should. But that's okay, it still seem to be introducing the nitrifiers you need.

Long story short no it is not stalled, just slower than expected. pH is fine, so is ammonia concentration.

Give it a few days, it should pick up. No water change needed, unless you just kinda want to make it harder to track how things are going.

I think it was a ready enough for some smaller fish. Go slow the rest will pick up. 300l is large enough to start with a probably 3 without much risk.

 

[Azedenkae]

I think it was a ready enough for some smaller fish. Go slow the rest will pick up. 300l is large enough to start with a probably 3 without much risk.

Not with the method op is using to cycle the tank.

For that method, there has to be enough nitrifiers to be able to consume 2ppm ammonia a day.

Even if not going by that method, the tank is not ready. Presuming the readings are correct and that not much nitrite oxidation is going on yet, about 0.1ppm nitrite is generated a day, which corresponds to about 0.037ppm ammonia oxidized a day.

I asked around the other day and in one example, I managed to calculate that two small clowns in a 42 gallon was producing 0.2ppm ammonia a day. That's about half of 300 litres, so in a tank double the size, they'd produce 0.1ppm ammonia. If it is three fish, that'd be 0.15ppm ammonia. Still much higher than 0.037ppm ammonia oxidized a day. Even if it is one fish, it's still barely at a good enough point. And it has to be a small fish too, not an average size one.

Sure, ammonia does need to climb somewhat higher than that to really have a toxic effect on marine fish (probably), but why risk it when one can just cycle fishless properly to a point where one can just chuck whatever in without worrying?

 

[attiland]

Dr Tim’s is saying 10 days are enough. If OP dosed the minimum amount he has enough for bacteria for 2-3 fish. Don’t forget this is 300l tank. The hat is huge for 2 clowns

 

[Azedenkae]

Dr Tim’s is saying 10 days are enough. If OP dosed the minimum amount he has enough for bacteria for 2-3 fish.

His chart clearly says ammonia and nitrite needs to be near 0 to add fish, so no it's not just a matter of there being enough days.

Here's his full cycling guide: https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling/

Quoting him from his guide: "The cycle is completed when you can add the full dose of ammonia (2 to 3 mg/L-N) and overnight it all disappears to nitrate with no sign of nitrite. Now you can start to add fish."

Don’t forget this is 300l tank. The hat is huge for 2 clowns

Yep, and I accounted for that in my calculations. Still not enough ammonia oxidation.

 

[attiland]

It is over a year I have used it. 0 ammonia reached in 7 days. I actually waited an another week not because I wanted just simply didn’t have a chance to go to buy fish. I may have done good without knowing By the way I have had 1.5 times of bacteria and since the battle said can not overdose I have put it all in.
I know it is about 0 ammonia but the nitrogen cycle confirmed bu nitrate started to appear. I have never seen nitrite at all.
I have also used live sand so that may have played in there too.

By the way here is a quote from Dr Tim’s

Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria​

The best and easiest way to fishless cycle is to combine adding the ammonium chloride with our Live Nitrifying bacteria. When used in combination, these will cycle the tank in less than one week. Again, do not add too much ammonia. We make it easy by providing a bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride that is at a concentration such that adding 4 drops of solution to 1 gallon of aquarium water will result in an ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 mg/L (ppm)”

all in all it will not be a mistake to wait an another week.

 

[JamieB]

Thanks everyone for your response, I really do appreciate it. Gives me reassurance to just continue and be patient.
Still today ammonia hasnt dropped below 2ppm and its been 11 days. I followed dr tims advice to the letter so struggling to understand why its taking so long. The instructions show ammonia being added and going back to zero twice within 3/4 days..

Patience needed I guess!

 

[brandon429]

the reason its taking so long is you arent using a seneye ammonia monitor, its all in your test kit for ammonia, its not an actual stall.

 

[brandon429]

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

your tank meets the exact criteria from that thread, post #1.


do a partial water change and begin, put your test kits down. That would be a debatable claim were we not out ten pages running it with total success. your ammonia testing is holding you up, but in reality nothing is wrong.

as you can see from that thread, not any reef tank has ever stalled. many a reefer has reported one, though. try to imagine if after all that patterning, you did a water change, added fish, and they died. that'd be so out of pattern.

 

[brandon429]

*backup for the dreaded dead bottle bac lol


see any common cycling chart, on what date does the ammonia drop and hold


are you on that date, you've been feeding ammonia this whole time as well.
nature has her own cycling timing independent from retail purchases

youre redundantly ready but not if you continue using the current test kit as the meter.