Cycling with fish in/ Nitrifying and Denitrifying Bacteria In " "seed" "bacteria" "aquavitro" < Should I use it? Or should I use another one?

Meesh

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Hi there, So I'm newish to the fish community and am learning more and more about the reefing community on what I should and shouldn't do for my new salt water aquarium.

I bought a pair of clownfish from someone online and brought them home and **put them right in the main tank right away** with the fish I just recently bought from the local pet store as I just finished cycling my fish tank and I noticed that all my fish started rubbing up against stuff. At first I thought it was just the clownfish being clownfish but then I soon realized 3 days after I brought in the new clownfish my one damsel fish had clamped fins and was swimming back and forth fast and rubbing up against the heater. The damsel wasn't breathing frantically but just looked like something was irritating it's skin, I thought I saw a white spot on his eye and on his body and didn't really see much on the clownfish.

So I setup a quick QT tank with the proper amount of Instant Ocean Sea Salt; and using "Nutrafin Cycle" and "Nutrafin Aqua Plus": to try establish the tank fast and after 48 hours of adding the de-chlorinator (Aqua Plus) I put in the "coppersafe" to treat for Ich or whatever else they may have gotten.

(I waited 48 hours ( About 2 Days) before putting in the coppersafe because I read somewhere that the "Nutrafin Aqua Plus" (Which is De-chlorinator and get's rid of metals in the water as well), Could either make a bad chemical together or it would get rid of the "coppersafe".)

I didn't know what to do with my main tank and didn't want to take the chance of reinfection my fish after healing them so I bleached everything in the tank. ( I only had previously bleached live rock and previously bleached crushed corals and ornament's at this point) I left the bleach in for 36 hours as I only used a couple glubs on each side and not the 9 to 1 ratio that some say to use as I felt this would be enough. It did seem to work. So I rinsed out the tank 5 times fully emptying and filling it up everytime; (thoroughly suctioning the crushed coral everytime by moving the suctioned crushed coral to the one side and just going through it like that so I knew I didn't miss any and got anything out of the crushed coral). Also I took out my fish tank filters and let the bleached water run through there and I also hand rinsed that with water a couple times as well so I knew no bleach was left. Then I filled up the tank with chlorinated water and the filter and left it like that for 24 hours. I waited til the next day when the water was regulated to the proper temperature to add the Instant Ocean Sea Salt and De-chlorinator. Then I tested the water to make sure no bleach was in there and there was 0. I waited for the salt to fully dissipate and settle and then tested the water for bleach and it came back 0.

Meanwhile in my QT tank my fish needed help. I put my fish back in the main tank, (After making sure it was safe.) as my QT tank; seemed to be going to a ammonia spike, my fish were not acting happy because I couldn't do a water change for a month. As using the "coppersafe" they say not to do a water change for 30 days and I was worried about my fish so I put them back in the main tank after about a month.

In the QT I was also doing freshwater dips for 5 minutes with ammonia remover and de-chlorinator every couple of days as well just incase that would help better. I also did a Freshwater dip leaving the net in as well just to be safe for 5 mins before putting them back in the main tank. I did let the net dry out in between previously as well. Also previously as well as using it for the fresh water dips and in the "coppersafe" tank as well as rinsing it out under the tap. The clownfish and damsel fish have been doing good since in the main tank and show no signs of anything. They've been in there since "May 19, 2021" When I first put them in I used "Nutrafin Cycle" for the 3 day cycle to try help with ammonia and nitrites and nitrates and then on the 7th day topped up as suggested on the bottle.

As my first 2 weeks is approaching and I am deciding what my next move is going to be because I really love my fish and don't want to have to replace them because these ones already come up to the tank and say hi when I come close. I have 3 Clownfish and 1 Damselfish and they all come and stare at me when I walk up to the tank sometimes blowing water at me.

But after calling a local reef store for advice on what I should do next he suggested I use a different nitrifying bacteria more made for saltwater because he thought even though it says on the bottle that nutrafin cycle is for freshwater and saltwater; He said that it was more so made for freshwater and won't really work for saltwater as the bacteria is completely different bacteria in salt water and freshwater and he didn't understand how it could be for both as salt water bacteria would only survive saltwater and freshwater bacteria would only survive in fresh water so how would they really bottle that he said to me. Now this has confused me nonetheless. So is this true? Does Nutrafin Cycle really only help freshwater bacteria more then saltwater? Does it still help salt water bacteria? He redirected me to go for microbactor7 but I couldn't find any at my local pet store and the only thing I found there on this particular day with nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria is Seed Bacteria from Aquavitro. I've read lot's of good reviews about Instant Ocean BIO-Spira and Also Dr.Tims One And Only Nitrifying Bacteria but I didn't see anything about them having denitrifying bacteria. So would Denitrifying and Nitrifying Bacteria be good to add to my tank right now in my situation I am at right now? I just don't want to get "New Tank Syndrome".

It says on the Bottle of " "seed"
"bacteria" from "aquavitro" "

"Rapidly and Safely Establish the Aquarium Biofilter -
Synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria "

""aquavitro" "seed"" will rapidly and safely establish the aquarium biofilter in freshwater and marine systems, thereby preventing the #1 cause of fish death: "new tank syndrome". "Seed" is formulated specifically for the aquarium and contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria which facilitates the breakdown of waste organics, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites.

The Bacteria used in competing products are inherently unstable. The conditions necessary for their growth and development fall into a very narrow range of temperatures, PH, organic loads, etc. When any of these parameters are not strictly within the proper range, the bacterial culture quickly crashes and dies. "Seed" does not contain any short-lived bacteria. The species of bacteria in seed are a unique blend, specifically developed for hardiness and their ability to adapt to a wide variety of environmental conditions. The strains thrive in both fresh and saltwater. "Seed" Contains both Nitrifying and Denitrifying Bacteria, a blend found in no other product. Additionally, "Seed" contains facultative bacterial strains which are able to adapt to either aerobic or anaerobic conditions.
DIRECTIONS: Shake well before use. Turn off UV/ozone. Use 5ml ( 1 tsp ) for each 40 L ( 10 US gallons ) on the first day with a new aquarium. Then use 5 mL ( 1 tsp ) 80 L ( 20 US gallons ) daily for 7 days.

Fish and other aquatic species may be introduced at any time as long as dosage is maintained for 7 days. For optimum biofilter performance, use 5 mL ( 1 tsp ) for each 80 L ( 20 US gallons ) once a month or with each water change and whenever introducing new fish or whenever medicating an aquarium.

Product shelf life is 4 years from date of manufacture, see expiration date below. ( "100885 EXP 1/9/25" )

*" aquavitro " is a premium product line from " Seachem Laboratories, Inc. "
For Sale in independent retail stores only. No online sales.

" Seachem Laboraties, Inc. " 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650
Made in the USA * www.aquavitro.com * 888-SEACHEM "

Also how often should I clean my tank and should I clean the gravel or just do the water changes for now? How should I know when my tank is fully cycled?

I also use a 350 Marineland Filter, they stopped selling the bio wheels in most places; they are pretty expensive elsewhere, the filtration system takes 2 bio wheels as well as the carbon filter pads. They do sell the carbon filter pads still though. I took the old bio wheels out, almost a year ago, when I got these little white worms all over the tank. I left them in a ziplock bag. But I don't fully remember if I took them out the first time I bleached the tank awhile ago before or after; I also don't really wanna risk re-infecting my tank from my old tank with whatever it had in it also. So I'm just wondering if it's okay just to use the Biomax Fluval Rings In the back of the filter with the filter bags: where there's two big dips in the back on each side? Will that work? It would be before the carbon filtration as it would pass through that after on it's way out. Or can I just bleach my bio wheels and give them a fresh start? I still have them from awhile ago but they have been sitting in a zip-lock bag in the closet with a tiny bit of water for awhile.

* At the moment my fish appear normal, eating good, and they seem pretty comfortable for the most part but I know I need to perform small water change here soon. I just want to get them through this cycle safely please, any advice on anything for a beginner would be much appreciated. Thank you. *
 
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dwest

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There’s a lot of stuff going on here. I always use biospira when setting up a quarantine tank so that’s the nitrifying bacteria I would recommend. You don’t need denitrifying bacteria. I would try to focus this to a question or two at first so we can help better. Let’s see if @Jay Hemdal is around.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi there, So I'm newish to the fish community and am learning more and more about the reefing community on what I should and shouldn't do for my new salt water aquarium.

I bought a pair of clownfish from someone online and brought them home and **put them right in the main tank right away** with the fish I just recently bought from the local pet store as I just finished cycling my fish tank and I noticed that all my fish started rubbing up against stuff. At first I thought it was just the clownfish being clownfish but then I soon realized 3 days after I brought in the new clownfish my one damsel fish had clamped fins and was swimming back and forth fast and rubbing up against the heater. The damsel wasn't breathing frantically but just looked like something was irritating it's skin, I thought I saw a white spot on his eye and on his body and didn't really see much on the clownfish.

So I setup a quick QT tank with the proper amount of Instant Ocean Sea Salt; and using "Nutrafin Cycle" and "Nutrafin Aqua Plus": to try establish the tank fast and after 48 hours of adding the de-chlorinator (Aqua Plus) I put in the "coppersafe" to treat for Ich or whatever else they may have gotten.

(I waited 48 hours ( About 2 Days) before putting in the coppersafe because I read somewhere that the "Nutrafin Aqua Plus" (Which is De-chlorinator and get's rid of metals in the water as well), Could either make a bad chemical together or it would get rid of the "coppersafe".)

I didn't know what to do with my main tank and didn't want to take the chance of reinfection my fish after healing them so I bleached everything in the tank. ( I only had previously bleached live rock and previously bleached crushed corals and ornament's at this point) I left the bleach in for 36 hours as I only used a couple glubs on each side and not the 9 to 1 ratio that some say to use as I felt this would be enough. It did seem to work. So I rinsed out the tank 5 times fully emptying and filling it up everytime; (thoroughly suctioning the crushed coral everytime by moving the suctioned crushed coral to the one side and just going through it like that so I knew I didn't miss any and got anything out of the crushed coral). Also I took out my fish tank filters and let the bleached water run through there and I also hand rinsed that with water a couple times as well so I knew no bleach was left. Then I filled up the tank with chlorinated water and the filter and left it like that for 24 hours. I waited til the next day when the water was regulated to the proper temperature to add the Instant Ocean Sea Salt and De-chlorinator. Then I tested the water to make sure no bleach was in there and there was 0. I waited for the salt to fully dissipate and settle and then tested the water for bleach and it came back 0.

Meanwhile in my QT tank my fish needed help. I put my fish back in the main tank, (After making sure it was safe.) as my QT tank; seemed to be going to a ammonia spike, my fish were not acting happy because I couldn't do a water change for a month. As using the "coppersafe" they say not to do a water change for 30 days and I was worried about my fish so I put them back in the main tank after about a month.

In the QT I was also doing freshwater dips for 5 minutes with ammonia remover and de-chlorinator every couple of days as well just incase that would help better. I also did a Freshwater dip leaving the net in as well just to be safe for 5 mins before putting them back in the main tank. I did let the net dry out in between previously as well. Also previously as well as using it for the fresh water dips and in the "coppersafe" tank as well as rinsing it out under the tap. The clownfish and damsel fish have been doing good since in the main tank and show no signs of anything. They've been in there since "May 19, 2021" When I first put them in I used "Nutrafin Cycle" for the 3 day cycle to try help with ammonia and nitrites and nitrates and then on the 7th day topped up as suggested on the bottle.

As my first 2 weeks is approaching and I am deciding what my next move is going to be because I really love my fish and don't want to have to replace them because these ones already come up to the tank and say hi when I come close. I have 3 Clownfish and 1 Damselfish and they all come and stare at me when I walk up to the tank sometimes blowing water at me.

But after calling a local reef store for advice on what I should do next he suggested I use a different nitrifying bacteria more made for saltwater because he thought even though it says on the bottle that nutrafin cycle is for freshwater and saltwater; He said that it was more so made for freshwater and won't really work for saltwater as the bacteria is completely different bacteria in salt water and freshwater and he didn't understand how it could be for both as salt water bacteria would only survive saltwater and freshwater bacteria would only survive in fresh water so how would they really bottle that he said to me. Now this has confused me nonetheless. So is this true? Does Nutrafin Cycle really only help freshwater bacteria more then saltwater? Does it still help salt water bacteria? He redirected me to go for microbactor7 but I couldn't find any at my local pet store and the only thing I found there on this particular day with nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria is Seed Bacteria from Aquavitro. I've read lot's of good reviews about Instant Ocean BIO-Spira and Also Dr.Tims One And Only Nitrifying Bacteria but I didn't see anything about them having denitrifying bacteria. So would Denitrifying and Nitrifying Bacteria be good to add to my tank right now in my situation I am at right now? I just don't want to get "New Tank Syndrome".

It says on the Bottle of " "seed"
"bacteria" from "aquavitro" "

"Rapidly and Safely Establish the Aquarium Biofilter -
Synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria "

""aquavitro" "seed"" will rapidly and safely establish the aquarium biofilter in freshwater and marine systems, thereby preventing the #1 cause of fish death: "new tank syndrome". "Seed" is formulated specifically for the aquarium and contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria which facilitates the breakdown of waste organics, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites.

The Bacteria used in competing products are inherently unstable. The conditions necessary for their growth and development fall into a very narrow range of temperatures, PH, organic loads, etc. When any of these parameters are not strictly within the proper range, the bacterial culture quickly crashes and dies. "Seed" does not contain any short-lived bacteria. The species of bacteria in seed are a unique blend, specifically developed for hardiness and their ability to adapt to a wide variety of environmental conditions. The strains thrive in both fresh and saltwater. "Seed" Contains both Nitrifying and Denitrifying Bacteria, a blend found in no other product. Additionally, "Seed" contains facultative bacterial strains which are able to adapt to either aerobic or anaerobic conditions.
DIRECTIONS: Shake well before use. Turn off UV/ozone. Use 5ml ( 1 tsp ) for each 40 L ( 10 US gallons ) on the first day with a new aquarium. Then use 5 mL ( 1 tsp ) 80 L ( 20 US gallons ) daily for 7 days.

Fish and other aquatic species may be introduced at any time as long as dosage is maintained for 7 days. For optimum biofilter performance, use 5 mL ( 1 tsp ) for each 80 L ( 20 US gallons ) once a month or with each water change and whenever introducing new fish or whenever medicating an aquarium.

Product shelf life is 4 years from date of manufacture, see expiration date below. ( "100885 EXP 1/9/25" )

*" aquavitro " is a premium product line from " Seachem Laboratories, Inc. "
For Sale in independent retail stores only. No online sales.

" Seachem Laboraties, Inc. " 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650
Made in the USA * www.aquavitro.com * 888-SEACHEM "

Also how often should I clean my tank and should I clean the gravel or just do the water changes for now? How should I know when my tank is fully cycled?

I also use a 350 Marineland Filter, they stopped selling the bio wheels in most places; they are pretty expensive elsewhere, the filtration system takes 2 bio wheels as well as the carbon filter pads. They do sell the carbon filter pads still though. I took the old bio wheels out, almost a year ago, when I got these little white worms all over the tank. I left them in a ziplock bag. But I don't fully remember if I took them out the first time I bleached the tank awhile ago before or after; I also don't really wanna risk re-infecting my tank from my old tank with whatever it had in it also. So I'm just wondering if it's okay just to use the Biomax Fluval Rings In the back of the filter with the filter bags: where there's two big dips in the back on each side? Will that work? It would be before the carbon filtration as it would pass through that after on it's way out. Or can I just bleach my bio wheels and give them a fresh start? I still have them from awhile ago but they have been sitting in a zip-lock bag in the closet with a tiny bit of water for awhile.

* At the moment my fish appear normal, eating good, and they seem pretty comfortable for the most part but I know I need to perform small water change here soon. I just want to get them through this cycle safely please, any advice on anything for a beginner would be much appreciated. Thank you. *


Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Lot's to break down here!

First of all, you can easily do water changes on a tank with Coppersafe, you just need to dose the replacement water with the corresponding amount of copper - so if you change out 10 gallons, just dose 10 gallons worth of coppersafe.

I'm not exactly sure why you sterilized your main tank, and then moved the sick fish back into it. Basically, you made a larger quarantine tank, but now, since it has rock and sand in it, you can't easily use Coppersafe.

What test kit do you have to measure the copper with?

FW dips every other day likely won't hurt anything, but remember, doing that is mostly a diagnostic tool (you look for flukes in the bottom of the dip container). It is also used to "buy some time" in a few disease cases, but it will not cure any disease. Don't use ammonia remover in a FW dip, just dechlor and light aeration.

I've never used Aquavitro "Seed" so I cannot comment on it directly, but I am suspect about a live bacteria product that has that long of an expiry date! Proof is in the pudding as they say, if it does what it is supposed to, it will keep your ammonia level lower. You want to try and keep the ammonia level below 0.25 ppm. What test kit do you have to measure that with?

I know Tim Hovenac, who developed Dr.Tims One And Only Nitrifying Bacteria, and I trust him to develop a workable product and I've heard good things from other folks.


Jay
 
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Meesh

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Hello, Thank you for your answers.

I did have my fish in my QT tank for about a month and after they stopped showing signs right away, after a couple of days, after treating with copper after the 30 days; I thought they would be fine just to go straight back into the main tank. The problem here is I really don't know what they had.
On the not I did notice after a fresh water dip that a white thing seemed to be trying to hang off the tip of my clownfish. So I'm not sure if it was flukes or ich or even velvet..
I didn't put copper in the main tank but it seems like even now after about 2 weeks of them being back into the main tank that the fish are showing no more symptoms of rubbing up against things.

I bleached my main tank because the algae seemed to be getting out of control and it was having this weird purple/goldy looking algae that kept growing really fast. I wasn't sure if that contributed to the problem or not and I heard that these kinds of things like velvet or ich can come from too much algae. Even though the tank was testing healthy levels and I was cleaning it lot's to try and get rid of the algae. I just wasn't sure what it was that was bugging them so much.


I am however starting to see this black algae starting currently on a seashell in there. Is that bad if it's black? How do I know if my algae is good or bad? How do I keep my algae at a healthy level?

You say I do not need denitrifying bacteria, but just wondering would it be bad too add it at this point? Would denitrifying bacteria help to keep the algae down if it starts to grow too fast again?

I have heard so many good things about both instant ocean bio spira and Dr.Tims one and only. I am really considering just maybe returning the "seed bacteria" I got and using one of those instead.

I'm probably going to do a water change here today so I'm just trying to decide what or if I should add anything else to my tank at this point to help the tank cycle safely so I don't harm my fish and don't have a ammonia spike.
 

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