Badger_Reefer
Community Member
Whats the best way to cycle a New Marine Setup ??? I have a 120 G Main display Tank and a 60 G sump setup.
Cycling
- Thread starter Badger_Reefer
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The best way is to buy fully cured, live rock from a pet store and bring it home, it's ready. It doesn't matter that it's expensive, it's the best way to cycle
Dry rock cycling, cheap, comes with pure problems mostly. Go with the expensive, best way because that's the best forecast for the new reef.
Don't order the live rock from the ocean, get it from a pet store and pay well for it.
If you want to do the cheap way, dry rocks with nine months of dinos and hair algae coming, then you just buy one bottle of any cycling bacteria, add an eighth of the bottle to the tank, put in one ground up pinch of fish food for carbon energy, wait ten days and it's cycled: testing for nothing. Ten days is the count, then begin reefing.
In either setting, we weren't testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate because those have already been worked out in the timing and sourcing above.
10000% of all funds avoided at the start by choosing cheap dry rock to cycle will be charged as you fight dinos and tank uglies for one year or more, see anyone's 100+ gallon dry rock startup. Pay up front, save a headache.
I know you're going to choose dry rock for cost, but that cost is coming back threefold it just doesn't seem that way now. It will in September.
Dry rock cycling, cheap, comes with pure problems mostly. Go with the expensive, best way because that's the best forecast for the new reef.
Don't order the live rock from the ocean, get it from a pet store and pay well for it.
If you want to do the cheap way, dry rocks with nine months of dinos and hair algae coming, then you just buy one bottle of any cycling bacteria, add an eighth of the bottle to the tank, put in one ground up pinch of fish food for carbon energy, wait ten days and it's cycled: testing for nothing. Ten days is the count, then begin reefing.
In either setting, we weren't testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate because those have already been worked out in the timing and sourcing above.
10000% of all funds avoided at the start by choosing cheap dry rock to cycle will be charged as you fight dinos and tank uglies for one year or more, see anyone's 100+ gallon dry rock startup. Pay up front, save a headache.
I know you're going to choose dry rock for cost, but that cost is coming back threefold it just doesn't seem that way now. It will in September.
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OP
OP
Badger_Reefer
Community Member
Okay,.. should i start the ammonia cycle by adding flakes or should i use use Micro bacter ??
twentyleagues
2500 Club Member
Oh Boy.
This question is as loaded as they come! Everyone and their grandmother is going to have an opinion, and most will be right. There are many ways to do this.
@brandon429 says live rock from the lfs is best. Make sure it is actual live rock not something that is just set in the holding bin yesterday. My experience with lfs live rock lots of bubble algae, vermatid snails, and aiptasia. I paid 10.99/lb for the base rock and 16.99/lb for coralline covered is that good? Did I pay enough?
Lots of people will say only live direct from the ocean rock will do. Its a good way but also has risks and is expensive.
Dry rock has issues as well. This will be my forever go to from now on though. If done properly there is no issues at all. The major complaints are extended ugly phase, with proper maintenance and stocking this is completely not true. Another is parameter instability again not true feed the tank get some fish and corals in there, practice proper husbandry.
Dr tims, microbacter, mb xlm, fritz900 or 9000 all work, use ammonia dont use fish food as the base. With fish food or shrimp you have to wait for them to start decaying. Add ammonia to the tank in the quantity needed to get to 2.0ppm add bottle bacteria of choice. I like to know whats happening in the initial cycle get yourself a cheap api master sw test kit. People will tell you this is junk or garbage its not but it does have some issues. Sometimes the colors are hard to read (ammonia test I'm looking at you), also it can be difficult to get uniform drops of reagent, practice with how much pressure is needed on the bottle. Some of the test dont really show on a proper scale for us (phosphate off the top of my head) and are pretty much useless. The main tests in the kit are perfectly fine nitirte, nitrate, ammonia (iffy depending on your ability to see color variance).
It is not necessary to test anything but ammonia to make sure you added the correct amount and when its gone and nitrate to see when the cycle has "completed". Cycle never really ends but hopefully you get what I am saying.
What I did on my current reef and what I am planning on doing in the 180 I am currently setting up. Dry rock. MB xlm. Ammonia. Dose ammonia up to 2.0ppm add bacteria in 2-3 days add a "pinch" of flake food ( reefroids). start testing at day 5 for nitrite and continue testing ammonia. When ammonia starts to decrease and nitrite starts to increase add a little more reefroids. The fish food adds a carbon source and in the reefroids case phosphates which seems like they help the cycle along, it definitely didnt hurt mine any. Test every couple days to see nitrite decrease when at 0 last tank I dosed ammonia again this is not needed I may or may not do that on the 180. It doesnt hurt anything and really only serves for my piece of mind. Once the cycle is "done" add pods and feed them with phyto let them establish for a week or so. At that point add marcos to the refugium and stock some QT'd fish and clean up crew. I dislike most crabs especially hermit crabs so my go to is snails ( cerith, astrea, nassarius) go light as you wont have much for them to eat. At this point you should have had or will be having the diatom bloom. Go light with your coral adds at this point, hearty corals. Add clean up crew as needed. Keep up on testing and maintenance water changes as needed, dosing as needed possible manual removal of anything that doesnt belong ie nuisance algaes. I also started dosing coral snow at about the 2nd month of the tank running. At first I followed the recipe in the link I will add then I switch to just the snow and occasionally add the other stuff.
https://reefsite.com/extreme-water-clarity-made-easy/
At some point (sooner the better) you will need good tests for alk, calc and nitrate at the very minimum phosphate also, I recommend hannah for these. Again I will get grief here but api calc and alk are ok if you want ball park numbers, if you want better calc id recommend Redsea pro or salifert.
Edit I dont know why I had calc in what sounded like using a hannah tester, dont get a hannah for calc! Use the recommended Redsea pro or salifert.
My current tank has never had a really bad ugly stage. It had some algae pop up and still does from time to time easily handled if you stay on top of it. Every issue in my reef has been 100% my fault. I can not stress enough proper QT, Dip, inspection procedures for anything you will add to the tank. I have not had fish issues in my dt as I qt them. But I have brought in pests and other issues for corals. I brought bjd into a euphyllia dominant reef tank on one coral that should have been better handled by me. Bubble algae from my other tank, vermatid snails from my other tank, Aiptasia from my other tank possibly from other places too. I will be inspecting every coral I move to the 180g and even though they are coming from my other tank I will treat it as from someone I dont know. I now have a protocol for bringing in euphyllia that they all go through before they enter the dt. In all actuality all the corals I add should go through this and will.
This question is as loaded as they come! Everyone and their grandmother is going to have an opinion, and most will be right. There are many ways to do this.
@brandon429 says live rock from the lfs is best. Make sure it is actual live rock not something that is just set in the holding bin yesterday. My experience with lfs live rock lots of bubble algae, vermatid snails, and aiptasia. I paid 10.99/lb for the base rock and 16.99/lb for coralline covered is that good? Did I pay enough?
Lots of people will say only live direct from the ocean rock will do. Its a good way but also has risks and is expensive.
Dry rock has issues as well. This will be my forever go to from now on though. If done properly there is no issues at all. The major complaints are extended ugly phase, with proper maintenance and stocking this is completely not true. Another is parameter instability again not true feed the tank get some fish and corals in there, practice proper husbandry.
Dr tims, microbacter, mb xlm, fritz900 or 9000 all work, use ammonia dont use fish food as the base. With fish food or shrimp you have to wait for them to start decaying. Add ammonia to the tank in the quantity needed to get to 2.0ppm add bottle bacteria of choice. I like to know whats happening in the initial cycle get yourself a cheap api master sw test kit. People will tell you this is junk or garbage its not but it does have some issues. Sometimes the colors are hard to read (ammonia test I'm looking at you), also it can be difficult to get uniform drops of reagent, practice with how much pressure is needed on the bottle. Some of the test dont really show on a proper scale for us (phosphate off the top of my head) and are pretty much useless. The main tests in the kit are perfectly fine nitirte, nitrate, ammonia (iffy depending on your ability to see color variance).
It is not necessary to test anything but ammonia to make sure you added the correct amount and when its gone and nitrate to see when the cycle has "completed". Cycle never really ends but hopefully you get what I am saying.
What I did on my current reef and what I am planning on doing in the 180 I am currently setting up. Dry rock. MB xlm. Ammonia. Dose ammonia up to 2.0ppm add bacteria in 2-3 days add a "pinch" of flake food ( reefroids). start testing at day 5 for nitrite and continue testing ammonia. When ammonia starts to decrease and nitrite starts to increase add a little more reefroids. The fish food adds a carbon source and in the reefroids case phosphates which seems like they help the cycle along, it definitely didnt hurt mine any. Test every couple days to see nitrite decrease when at 0 last tank I dosed ammonia again this is not needed I may or may not do that on the 180. It doesnt hurt anything and really only serves for my piece of mind. Once the cycle is "done" add pods and feed them with phyto let them establish for a week or so. At that point add marcos to the refugium and stock some QT'd fish and clean up crew. I dislike most crabs especially hermit crabs so my go to is snails ( cerith, astrea, nassarius) go light as you wont have much for them to eat. At this point you should have had or will be having the diatom bloom. Go light with your coral adds at this point, hearty corals. Add clean up crew as needed. Keep up on testing and maintenance water changes as needed, dosing as needed possible manual removal of anything that doesnt belong ie nuisance algaes. I also started dosing coral snow at about the 2nd month of the tank running. At first I followed the recipe in the link I will add then I switch to just the snow and occasionally add the other stuff.
https://reefsite.com/extreme-water-clarity-made-easy/
At some point (sooner the better) you will need good tests for alk, calc and nitrate at the very minimum phosphate also, I recommend hannah for these. Again I will get grief here but api calc and alk are ok if you want ball park numbers, if you want better calc id recommend Redsea pro or salifert.
Edit I dont know why I had calc in what sounded like using a hannah tester, dont get a hannah for calc! Use the recommended Redsea pro or salifert.
My current tank has never had a really bad ugly stage. It had some algae pop up and still does from time to time easily handled if you stay on top of it. Every issue in my reef has been 100% my fault. I can not stress enough proper QT, Dip, inspection procedures for anything you will add to the tank. I have not had fish issues in my dt as I qt them. But I have brought in pests and other issues for corals. I brought bjd into a euphyllia dominant reef tank on one coral that should have been better handled by me. Bubble algae from my other tank, vermatid snails from my other tank, Aiptasia from my other tank possibly from other places too. I will be inspecting every coral I move to the 180g and even though they are coming from my other tank I will treat it as from someone I dont know. I now have a protocol for bringing in euphyllia that they all go through before they enter the dt. In all actuality all the corals I add should go through this and will.
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As @twentyleagues said, this is like asking which Italian grandmother makes the best tomato sauce. Everyone will have a different opinion, and most are correct ;-)
Like @brandon429 said, I think "the best" way to start a new tank is with a high quality live rock and/or sand. If you have a quality Local Fish Store (LFS) that may be an option. However, I do recommend the maricultured live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater. Does it come with some "bad actors" or "hitchhikers", it sure does, but I think the upside far outweighs the downside; it's awesome stuff. Most of those "bad" critters can be easily trapped and removed:
tbsaltwater.com
If you use a high quality live rock, there is really no cycle, and no ugly phase. You shouldn't need any additional bacteria products or ammonia or fish food. The rock is basically ready to go.
If you are going to use dry rock, one option that work well is to use dry rock in your display tank so you can get the aquascape that you want, but pack your sump with high-quality live rock. This help minimize an "ugly phase", and you can glue up a fancy aquascape if that's your thing.
If you use dry rocks and sand and do a typical cycle, you're going to want a bottled bacteria product such as Dr. Tim's One and Only, Fritz TurboStar, or BioSpira if you can find it (I'm not sure they make it anymore). Then, you'll need bottled ammonium chloride (my prefered), fish food, or a piece of seafood market shrimp as an ammonia source. You can expect to see some "ugly" algae and/or diatoms in the first few months as your tank stabilizes, and the "good" microbes outcompete the "bad" microbes that cause the "ugly phase".
This video goes into detail about the 3 main ways to cycle a dry-rock tank: using a shrimp (<I don't like this method at all), fish-in (<now largely considered inhumane to the fish), and fish-less using bottled bacteria and ammonium chloride:
I hope that helps and good luck!
Like @brandon429 said, I think "the best" way to start a new tank is with a high quality live rock and/or sand. If you have a quality Local Fish Store (LFS) that may be an option. However, I do recommend the maricultured live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater. Does it come with some "bad actors" or "hitchhikers", it sure does, but I think the upside far outweighs the downside; it's awesome stuff. Most of those "bad" critters can be easily trapped and removed:
Tampa Bay Saltwater - America's #1 Live Rock for Reef Aquariums
Tampa Bay Saltwater sustainably farms ocean aquacultured live rock and hand harvested sand. TBS Live Rock provides beneficial microorganisms, creates a less stressful environment for inhabitants and provides natural biofiltration by the lifeforms found in and on it. Healthy live rock, from our...
tbsaltwater.com
If you use a high quality live rock, there is really no cycle, and no ugly phase. You shouldn't need any additional bacteria products or ammonia or fish food. The rock is basically ready to go.
If you are going to use dry rock, one option that work well is to use dry rock in your display tank so you can get the aquascape that you want, but pack your sump with high-quality live rock. This help minimize an "ugly phase", and you can glue up a fancy aquascape if that's your thing.
If you use dry rocks and sand and do a typical cycle, you're going to want a bottled bacteria product such as Dr. Tim's One and Only, Fritz TurboStar, or BioSpira if you can find it (I'm not sure they make it anymore). Then, you'll need bottled ammonium chloride (my prefered), fish food, or a piece of seafood market shrimp as an ammonia source. You can expect to see some "ugly" algae and/or diatoms in the first few months as your tank stabilizes, and the "good" microbes outcompete the "bad" microbes that cause the "ugly phase".
This video goes into detail about the 3 main ways to cycle a dry-rock tank: using a shrimp (<I don't like this method at all), fish-in (<now largely considered inhumane to the fish), and fish-less using bottled bacteria and ammonium chloride:
I hope that helps and good luck!
I have no source for that. I had to go with cured dry rock. I used the fishless method. Wont deny the things said except no hair algae. If you want a copy of this method which was written by someone else I will scan and forward. I have no input to the above
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