Cycling

[Little c big D]

@Steven27, @brandon429 push for qt is valid. Also it isn't. There are both successful tanks with and without QT. There are also unsuccessful fallow and qt systems as well as not qt'd tank. I just read a thread where someone did everything right and got ich anyway. Also seen plenty of tanks fail with no qt.

So the point @brandon429 makes that IS good, is to spend time reading the disease section. And make your choices carefully based on your situation. QTs aren't always easy... but they are a helpful tool to many successful tanks.

 

[Steven27]

@Steven27, @brandon429 push for qt is valid. Also it isn't. There are both successful tanks with and without QT. There are also unsuccessful fallow and qt systems as well as not qt'd tank. I just read a thread where someone did everything right and got ich anyway. Also seen plenty of tanks fail with no qt.

So the point @brandon429 makes that IS good, is to spend time reading the disease section. And make your choices carefully based on your situation. QTs aren't always easy... but they are a helpful tool to many successful tanks.

I would agree with that there’s not a set standard and it’s 200 percent. Nothing is a 100 percent I would imagine many on this forum did not qt and it worked out. Others probably did qt and it did work out. Point being they can both work. I will read into disease prevention.

 

[Steven27]

I would agree with that there’s not a set standard and Nothing is a 100 percent I would imagine many on this forum did not qt and it worked out. Others probably did qt and it did work out. Point being they can both work. I will read into disease prevention.

 

[1ocean]

I will try and keep this short and simple.
Looking at your pictures of your test and doing catch up reading, you are not done cycling...your ammonia should be at zero, nitrites at zero and nitrates should slowly go up to indicate cycling is coming to a end.
Remember when you add fish ammonia will go up a little , then nitrites will go up a little and then they go to zero as nitrates go up.
Leaving you with how to deal with keeping nitrates in check.
This is a constant process.
I like and use the Brightwell process of cycle and maintenance program.
Use Rodi water. They have the whole process on their website.
1. add Microbacter Start XLM bacteria
2. add Microbacter Clean and Bio Fuel
3. add Microbacter 7 after 4 months to help maintain good bacteria.
Since you used Dr. Tims to start, I agree I would not mix different start bacteria products but I do not see any issue using steps 2 and 3.

 

[Soren]

No anemone. Okay sounds good I’ll probably add the neon blue goby and royal gramma first.

You could probably even add those two fish together and just wait about 2 weeks or so to add the pair of clownfish.

I will try and keep this short and simple.
Looking at your pictures of your test and doing catch up reading, you are not done cycling...your ammonia should be at zero, nitrites at zero and nitrates should slowly go up to indicate cycling is coming to a end.
Remember when you add fish ammonia will go up a little , then nitrites will go up a little and then they go to zero as nitrates go up.
Leaving you with how to deal with keeping nitrates in check.
This is a constant process.
I like and use the Brightwell process of cycle and maintenance program.
Use Rodi water. They have the whole process on their website.
1. add Microbacter Start XLM bacteria
2. add Microbacter Clean and Bio Fuel
3. add Microbacter 7 after 4 months to help maintain good bacteria.
Since you used Dr. Tims to start, I agree I would not mix different start bacteria products but I do not see any issue using steps 2 and 3.

Agreed. Just a quick note for you, @1ocean , if I understand correctly, Dr. Tim's bacteria was not added in this case. @Steven27 's tank was started with some "live rock" from a wet tank at the LFS, a few pieces of Life rock, and addition of Bio Spira bacteria along with dosing Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride for an ammonia source.

Until the added ammonia is processed, I think fish should not be added. I personally would probably also wait for the drop in nitrite and rise in nitrates to make sure the tank is cycling seamlessly per @Lasse 's advice.

 

[Steven27]

You could probably even add those two fish together and just wait about 2 weeks or so to add the pair of clownfish.


Agreed. Just a quick note for you, @1ocean , if I understand correctly, Dr. Tim's bacteria was not added in this case. @Steven27 's tank was started with some "live rock" from a wet tank at the LFS, a few pieces of Life rock, and addition of Bio Spira bacteria along with dosing Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride for an ammonia source.

Until the added ammonia is processed, I think fish should not be added. I personally would probably also wait for the drop in nitrite and rise in nitrates to make sure the tank is cycling seamlessly per @Lasse 's advice.

I dosed ammonia on Friday night current levels not sure why the nitrite levels are not matching the chart. The ammonia picture is from yesterday so roughly 24 hours after dosing ammonia I believe the ammonia level was around 1-2 ppm when I dosed. The other ammonia picture was 12 hours after dosing the ammonia on Friday. Not sure if the nitrite test is off.

 

[Soren]

I dosed ammonia on Friday night current levels not sure why the nitrite levels are not matching the chart. The ammonia picture is from yesterday so roughly 24 hours after dosing ammonia I believe the ammonia level was around 1-2 ppm when I dosed. The other ammonia picture was 12 hours after dosing the ammonia on Friday. Not sure if the nitrite test is off.

If I understand correctly, you dosed ammonia again on Friday to about 1 ppm and have these results about 24-48 hours later?
Those results are what you are looking for in an initial cycling, as far as I understand.
Ammonia at 0.25 ppm is within the error of the testing method and may actually be zero. Nitrites should have come up like the test shows, since ammonia is converted to nitrites. Presence of nitrates means that nitrites are also being converted to nitrates, so the cycle is completing all the way through. If the bacteria can process that much ammonia in that time frame, you should be safe for the addition of your first fish without any more dosing of ammonia.

Watching for nitrites to fall to zero as well is an extra safe-guard, as it shows the capabilities to completely convert ammonia to nitrites then nitrites to nitrates efficiently.

What I would do personally with your tank at this stage is a 25-30% water change then add the first fish while following your chosen method for disease prevention protocol.

 

[Steven27]

If I understand correctly, you dosed ammonia again on Friday to about 1 ppm and have these results about 24-48 hours later?
Those results are what you are looking for in an initial cycling, as far as I understand.
Ammonia at 0.25 ppm is within the error of the testing method and may actually be zero. Nitrites should have come up like the test shows, since ammonia is converted to nitrites. Presence of nitrates means that nitrites are also being converted to nitrates, so the cycle is completing all the way through. If the bacteria can process that much ammonia in that time frame, you should be safe for the addition of your first fish without any more dosing of ammonia.

Watching for nitrites to fall to zero as well is an extra safe-guard, as it shows the capabilities to completely convert ammonia to nitrites then nitrites to nitrates efficiently.

What I would do personally with your tank at this stage is a 25-30% water change then add the first fish while following your chosen method for disease prevention protocol.

That is correct. Okay sounds good if I were to add more live rock would it cause parameters to spike? The lfs is really close by not sure if any die off would occur.

 

[Soren]

That is correct. Okay sounds good if I were to add more live rock would it cause parameters to spike? The lfs is really close by not sure if any die off would occur.

What is on the live rock from your LFS? The previous rock looked like it was just soaked rock with bacteria cultures but did not have life like sponges, macroalgae, coralline algae, etc. like ocean-direct live rock would have.
If it is just soaked rock, I would guess that die-off would have minimal effect. If you choose to add more rock, it likely will not hurt to wait a bit and re-test parameters to see if it causes any issues. I don't expect any issues, but I'm not experienced enough nor know enough about your LFS live rock to answer with complete confidence...

 

[Steven27]

What is on the live rock from your LFS? The previous rock looked like it was just soaked rock with bacteria cultures but did not have life like sponges, macroalgae, coralline algae, etc. like ocean-direct live rock would have.
If it is just soaked rock, I would guess that die-off would have minimal effect. If you choose to add more rock, it likely will not hurt to wait a bit and re-test parameters to see if it causes any issues. I don't expect any issues, but I'm not experienced enough nor know enough about your LFS live rock to answer with complete confidence...

The arch and large piece are life rock and everything else is live rock. I conducted a water change since the tank has finished cycling and the nitrates are still high I replaced 5 gallons. The first picture is from earlier today and the second picture is about a couple minutes after the water change.

 

[Steven27]

The arch and large piece are life rock and everything else is live rock. I conducted a water change since the tank has finished cycling and the nitrates are still high I replaced 5 gallons. The first picture is from earlier today and the second picture is about a couple minutes after the water change.

Conducted another water changing removing 5 gallons. Both are the same not sure which is accurate just ones closer to the chart.

 

[Soren]

Conducted another water changing removing 5 gallons. Both are the same not sure which is accurate just ones closer to the chart.

Either one looks fine for the introduction of fish. Marine fish can typically be unaffected by nitrates up to 200+ ppm, if I remember correctly. I think a lot of FOWLRs run at 40-100+ ppm nitrates.

It is corals and other invertebrates that are more sensitive to nitrates, but 10 ppm still should not be a problem. Just do more water changes to bring the nitrates down if you are concerned.

 

[Garf]

Conducted another water changing removing 5 gallons. Both are the same not sure which is accurate just ones closer to the chart.

Not a problem as long as your ammonia is low. I’m assuming you’ve still got a bit of nitrite which is messin with your nitrate test. These nitrate tests give indication of trends up or down rather than a definitive number, looks ok from here.

 

[brandon429]

Steven

when perusing non qt options only sample reefs that used two pre cycled rocks with no growths on them and two dry start rocks for the base. Not joking, that context matters 100% in the options you sample to choose when adding fish


specifically don’t try and copy the fish addition technique not from the disease forum that comes from a tank at someone’s home full of coral running ten years


nobody says it has to be you that quarantines. I’d buy them pre qt if I owned a reef larger than one gallon.


if your reef here was 100% dry start bottle bac you could skip the fallow phase, but due to bringing over live rock you likely can’t

** one caveat

if the lfs held the live rock in a bin where no fish has been, they are selling fallowed cycled rock and that’s cause for a rock and roll party. You could add in pre quarantined fish, skip fallow preps here, and still be performing today’s top fish disease prep-from the fish disease forum-matched well to your starting rock arrangement.

 

[Steven27]

Not a problem as long as your ammonia is low. I’m assuming you’ve still got a bit of nitrite which is messin with your nitrate test. These nitrate tests give indication of trends up or down rather than a definitive number, looks ok from here.

No nitrites I haven’t checked since yesterday

 

[Soren]

@Steven27 As mentioned above, I would recommend that you read about the different disease prevention methods including quarantining and decide what method you would like to employ for your tank.

Buying pre-quarantined fish takes some of the headache out, since you are trusting the difficulties and need for extra equipment to a professional (even though it costs a bit more).

I don't know if you have mentioned anything about quarantine or disease prevention yet?

 

[Garf]

No nitrites I haven’t checked since yesterday

Happy days. Looks like your test kit wasn’t faulty, lol. Let the fun begin. Getting your fish from a good LFS that quarantines, is the easiest way to start, IMO. However I use “safety stop” from blue life and a period of 2 to 4 weeks in an observation tank. Being new, you probably will want to do the minimum.