Dangers of Permanently keeping cupramine in FOWLR DT???

[Baldoboy1]

Hey guys. So I have a 230 gallon FOWLR system and I’ve been thinking about dosing it with cupramine. Is there any reason not to use cupramine in the display tank if I never plan on putting in corals or invertebrates. Any risk of long term exposure to it for fish?

Up until now I had a small QT tank that I used with cupramine and then I’d move them to the DT. All my fish were in the QT with cupramine for over a month. It will allow me to clear up some much needed room and get rid of excess equipment.

 

[Peace River]

Hey guys. So I have a 230 gallon FOWLR system and I’ve been thinking about dosing it with cupramine. Is there any reason not to use cupramine in the display tank if I never plan on putting in corals or invertebrates. Any risk of long term exposure to it for fish?

Up until now I had a small QT tank that I used with cupramine and then I’d move them to the DT. All my fish were in the QT with cupramine for over a month. It will allow me to clear up some much needed room and get rid of excess equipment.

Lets see if we can get some help with your question...

@4FordFamily @HotRocks @Big G #reefsquad

 

[Riphter]

As far as I know copper is toxic to most fish in the long term. It is also damaging to gills and other organs of almost all fish even at therapeutic levels if used long term. Also removal of the copper will be difficult because the sand and rock take up copper from the water and will leach into the water over time. If you ever plan to switch over to corals.

 

[Big G]

The rocks and some types of sand will absorb the copper. It could be a tedious task to get the copper to completely leach out of those mediums and not continue to randomly leak back into the tank. Copper is a poison after all. Some fish are incredibly sensitive to copper like Lionfish for example.

 

[nereefpat]

I wouldn't permanently keep them in copper, as it is a poison.

You can certainly dose copper in the display as long as you don't have inverts. There are a couple downsides.

1. It will take lots of copper, because of the water volume
2. You will have to have a way to accurately test copper levels, due to rock absorbing the copper.

I would plan on removing the copper with a reactor and activated carbon after a period of time.

 

[Baldoboy1]

As far as I know copper is toxic to most fish in the long term. It is also damaging to gills and other organs of almost all fish even at therapeutic levels if used long term. Also removal of the copper will be difficult because the sand and rock take up copper from the water and will leach into the water over time. If you ever plan to switch over to corals.

thank you. I will definitely be keeping it as FOWLR. My last system was a reef and when it crashed I lost all my corals. The amount of wasted/ lost money made me promise to never have them again. Lol

 

[Baldoboy1]

I wouldn't permanently keep them in copper, as it is a poison.

You can certainly dose copper in the display as long as you don't have inverts. There are a couple downsides.

1. It will take lots of copper, because of the water volume
2. You will have to have a way to accurately test copper levels, due to rock absorbing the copper.

I would plan on removing the copper with a reactor and activated carbon after a period of time.

1. That’s a very good point. I have A LOT of extra rock in my system so it would probably take a huge amount. :-/

2. I have the Hannah copper checker. that is the easiest and most accurate way to test that I’ve found so far.

 

[Hugh Mann]

To my knowledge, copper can and will suppress the appetite and immune system of fish, which can lead to all sorts of issues.

Think of copper treatment a bit like chemotherapy. It kills the disease before it kills you, but it sure as heck ain't good for you either.

Mind you, my lfs constantly runs copper in their tanks, but they have such a high turnaround the fish aren't usually in the tanks for more than two weeks after QT.

 

[Kyl]

As noted, copper is a poison. I'll try and be sensitive and not reference another type of treatment, but think of it as the copper is more of a deadlier poison to the pathogen, before it can ultimately be deadly to the host.

Ideally you want to keep a fish in copper only so long as to remove the pathogen from it.

 

[Idoc]

Copper is toxic to fish in the long term...only used short term to kill off parasites.

Plus, you may not want corals in the tank....but how about snails, shrimp, etc... They are also inverts and killed by copper. These are essential parts of any clean up crew!

 

[HotRocks]

I know people who have used it successfully and removed it successfully from their tanks. I would never recommend keeping a tank with copper at therapeutic levels for longer than the recommendation from the manufacturer to kill whatever parasite you are after though. Long term effects may be somewhat unknown. All I can say is I don’t see a point in exposing the fish any longer than necessary. Copper is an immunosuppressant so it will kill the parasites but long term use could destroy the natural immune system to a point that the fish may not be able to fight off anything on its own.

 

[Baldoboy1]

Copper is toxic to fish in the long term...only used short term to kill off parasites.

Plus, you may not want corals in the tank....but how about snails, shrimp, etc... They are also inverts and killed by copper. These are essential parts of any clean up crew!

Im not doing any inverts. I have wrasses and other fish that would eat any inverts. If you know of any clean up crew that is FOWLR safe let me know though.

 

[Baldoboy1]

Thank you guys. My main issue with my QT is that it’s just a 55 gallon with a aquaclear 110 on it for filtration and a power head with some live rock in it. It’s not the ideal set up for a fish and I worry it makes it harder on the fish to have to stay in that for a month. Where as in the main tank it’s a lot better system for health and success.
I know some people swear that a QT just adds to more stress on the fish.

 

[Idoc]

Thank you guys. My main issue with my QT is that it’s just a 55 gallon with a aquaclear 110 on it for filtration and a power head with some live rock in it. It’s not the ideal set up for a fish and I worry it makes it harder on the fish to have to stay in that for a month. Where as in the main tank it’s a lot better system for health and success.
I know some people swear that a QT just adds to more stress on the fish.

I see your issue...that's a big quarantine tank to keep up and running all the time!

I have had great success with only using a 10g and 20g long quarantine tank that I setup a day or two ahead of receiving a new fish...then break it down after quarantine. I have some fake plants, etc... to place in the QT to help with making them feel more at home and less stressed...and I don't use a light. Very little space used and only present when quarantining a fish. But, I don't quarantine large fish...only small ones since my main tank is only 75g.

 

[Riphter]

Having rock or anything else other then pvc tubes or plastic plants will also make it harder to maintain copper at therapeutic levels. You don’t so much have to worry about cycling the QT. Have a seachem ammonia alert badge, big bottle of prime and at least a bucket or two of mixed saltwater on hand to do some quick water changes. Rock and sand absorb copper and will make measurements difficult. I use cut white pvc piping (appropriate for size of fish), bare bottom and a hob + small power head.
Edit: don’t forget an air stone.

 

[tehmadreefer]

I’ve had great success for the past 12 year NOT qt’ing. I’d you keep a healthy environment and select healthy fish from the start, no need to qt.

Just an option.