Dawn's 56g memorial seahorse tank!

[Neptune 555]

You did add sand? would love to know your pro/con to bare bottom / sand?
and you added a cardinal fish... pro/con?

I ultimately want 2 ponies / mandarin / 2 clowns / clean up crew in a 3 foot bow front tank

 

[rayjay]

Clowns unfortunately (especially as they mature) often stress the seahorses to the point their already weak immune system fails and they succumb to bacterial diseases. My Royal Gramma would attack anything in it's tank, even the tangs, so that for me would also be a NO-NO.
Often, seahorses succumb to pathogens they haven't grown up with, introduced to them by other fish, even other seahorses from different sources. You increase the odds of success by having a species only tank. While this problem isn't as frequent as the bacteria afflictions, it IS something to be considered IMO.
For me, sand LOOKS a heck of a lot better, but, I find it SO MUCH EASIER to do tank maintenance without the sandbed. This is extremely important as seahorse tanks are in a perpetual state of needing cleaning.
IMO, seahorse tanks need to be kept cleaner than for any reef tank because of their propensity to succumb to bacterial diseases. I've never encountered another fish that was anywhere near as sensitive to bacteria as seahorses in my 24 years of salt water, about 15 now with seahorses.
Extreme husbandry/water changes are best as there are NO TEST KITS AVAILABLE to the hobbyist that will tell us WHEN the water has degraded to the point the nasty bacteria are about to go out of control.
I have hooked up hoses from my salt water storage in the basement, through the rafters of the laundry room and up through the floor alongside water pipes that service a bathroom above. When doing water changes, I drain the tank water into the toilet and then hook the hose up to the fixed hose coming from the basement to refill the tanks with the new water. I use other hoses to service the tanks in the basement so I don't have to carry water for any waterchange.
For live feeding that I usually only do once or twice a week, I feed enriched artemia adults that I grow to adult stage and enrich with Algamac 3050 (DHA component) or a mix of that and spirulina powder which are the main components in Dan's Feed from seahorsesource.com . Dan also adds many other beneficial things to the food as well.
My brine shrimp page can be viewed at http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/brineshrimp.html
Many others purchase live brine or mysid shrimp and enrich portions of those to add to the seahorse tanks periodically.
Travelling often is likely to make seahorse keeping success MUCH MORE DIFFICULT for you as even having a camera view won't be sufficient to be able to react fast. Once a problem is visible it usually required hospitalization of a seahorses(s). As seahorse tanks need PROACTIVE maintenance rather than reactive you will need to find someone who would share the passion of seahorse keeping really to look after things while you are away. Even setting up for easy maintenance, you still need to have something removing all hidden uneaten food/detritus, and, to clean out the mechanical filter pads every 3-4 days to lessen the food and bedding provided for the nasties.
Ideally, all uneaten food should be removed BEFORE adding any new food. Feeding multiple times a day will increase the odds of success.
I found that when I went from 3 times a day to 4 times a day over a year ago, I have virtually NO bacterial problems since then. I think it's because the more frequent feeding is helping to keep the immune systems in better condition.
Keep in mind that the OR course is basically one persons opinion/experience and be sure to consult other experienced keepers/breeders as well, especially if the OR course hasn't been updated in the recent past.
Knowing what I've learned over the last 15 years about seahorses, I personally would NOT start the hobby if I had travelling to do for work or frequent pleasure trips.
I DO have a fish sitter I've been able to depend on but it took some time to find the right person, and, I wouldn't want him to be doing it on a semi regular basis.
He comes in to feed the seahorses 3 times a day and cleans out the mechanical filters every 3 days, with major water changes on Sunday if I'm away.

 

[vlangel]

Great thread... I am debating converting my upstairs reef to a pony tank. A few questions:

• Why did you never add other fish? I read ocellaris clowns are good tank mates and mandarins? You had a royal gramma that you gave your son... they are also listed as safe soooo who knows? but a mandarin would be in the rocks?
• Bare bottem vs sand bottom - Your first tank was sand.. why do you think that caused the death of Adam? Your thread starts with that as a fact?
• buckets / buckets and more buckets. I KNOW manual water changes ANNOY me. I read you switched but I don't understand how to make this upgrade? My reef in the basement is close enough to a water source so I just use a pump and hose. Upstairs I carry buckets? How do I set up my system upstairs? before I get ponies I must make water changes automatic!
• Can you explain / show your live food source? You mention keeping a live food supply for your ponies and I would like to do the same... I currently hatch baby brine shrimp for my mandarin.. and keep trying to keep a live food supply going in a spare tank w/ little success?
• Feeding - The reason I have not already started a seahorse tank is I travel for leisure and work. After I train the horses to feed at a feeding station... I suspect others could just add food to the station... so should be kinda easy... BUT are they sensitive to the times they eat? as in what if my fish helpers came at different times to feed them?? and what if they only came once a day? Would it be better to move the horses to my LFS when I leave or is that more stress?
• Going to take the OR course now! but am debating these finer points before I start this journey.
• One idea... for 100 bucks you can set up a video camera and have it run all the time so when you are away you can view your tank and seahorses from an iphone. That is my lesson learned from when my tank CRASHED. I had people checking on the tank daily.. but a fuse blew and no one caught it for 24 hours tank had no power.... When your fish helper mentioned that the gurgling sound was happening they could have just moved the video feed to show you the sump? It is a great insurance policy.

I think I am doing this! your videos really hooked me!

thank you!
Neptune

Wow Neptune, thanks for the thread comment. I will try to answer all your questions.

1. I did not have fish in the beginning because captive bred seahorses do not have good immunity to the pathogens carried by wild caught fish which most of my fish were. I chose a specie specific tank at first to have the best chance of success.
Clowns of any type are a big risk. They just are a feisty fish. Now that being said, I know seahorse keepers who do it successfully. Mandarins on the other hand are a good choice if you can train them onto frozen mysis. Also, if they are WC be sure to QT them to lessen the chance of them carrying pathogens.

2. Yes my 1st tank was sand and actually I am not sure it caused Adam's death. I added sand from a 5.5 gallon to the seahorse tank and that tank was not as well maintained. It was either the addition of sand or adding my clownfish which never threatened the ponies but maybe Adam was nervous. At any rate Adam got sick immediately.

3. My seahorse DT is in 1st floor livingroom. The sump is directly below in basement. Also in basement directly below is my rodi water and a floor drain. I make water in a large brute can. I turn off return pump. Then to do WC I just syphon water out of sump into floor drain and then fill back up with fresh made saltwater in brute can and pump back into the sump. It is not automated but it does not require buckets and heavy lifting.

I need to go Neptune but I will finish answering your ?s when I get back.

 

[vlangel]

My live food source is small ghost shrimp that I get from an ebay online vendor: at your door shrimp. I buy 250 at a time for when I go away on vacation and my sister comes in and feeds pre-measured frozen mysis and when they finish that she nets 10-15 live shrimp once a day. My sister is very good and reliable but I hate asking so much of her. I do not really trust anyone else however.

My seahorses will not eat real early in the morning but once they start waking up and flirting with one another they are ready to eat if they see the turkey baster coming.

In my opinion having seahorses and travelling is the hard. For me it is by far the most stressful part of keeping seahorses and I do not travel a great deal. I am coming up on having the ponies for 4 years Oct 2nd. I may let my current seahorses live out their natural lives and then go back to just regular marine fish. Its just too difficult visiting our grown kids.

Not all lfs are knowledgeable about seahorses so unless they are really trustworthy, that may not be the best idea either. You definitely would want them in a tank that does not share water with wild caught fish plus their water should be in the low 70°F.

I started with sand and then built a new bigger tank without sand and now I am back to sand. The pro to sand is it looks so nice and natural. The con is it requires more maintenance. I stir it every week to get the detritus released and filtered. With a bare bottom tank you can see the detritus and syphon it up every 3 days or so and the tank looks so clean. That was the problem however, the tank looked so clean that it appeared down right sterile and I got bored with its look, so I went back to sand.

I am now carefully adding some fish knowing there is risk. A species only tank is the safest for seahorses. It is very very painful losing a seahorse before its time and you will want to avoid that. I am more confident in my husbandry now so I am willing to take the risk. I am QT all fish first and only very quiet species of fish are considered. The cardinals have worked out well. I have some small blennies now in quarantine that I plan to add.

One final thought...I adore bowfront tanks but not for seahorses. Keeping the glass clean on a bowfront is harder since you cannot use a straight edge razor. Seahorses give off a lot of wastes and I found the bowfront added to the work load. I am much happier with my 56 gallon colume tank.

 

[Neptune 555]

Thank you for your thoughtful responses!

Sadly I don't think seahorses are in my near future. I take adding live stock very seriously and don't think I can keep up with their needs at this time.

I have decided the theme for my upstairs tank is aquaculture. My goal is to create an amazing viewing experience that does not impact the oceans. I was going down that path.. and as I started finding retailers that sell aquacultured fish I again bumped into Sea Horses!! I will share photos of my tank when ready!! 2 paired clowns / BTA / 2 paired mandarins / royal gramma / 3 cardinals. That is what I am thinking....

 

[vlangel]

Thank you for your thoughtful responses!

Sadly I don't think seahorses are in my near future. I take adding live stock very seriously and don't think I can keep up with their needs at this time.

I have decided the theme for my upstairs tank is aquaculture. My goal is to create an amazing viewing experience that does not impact the oceans. I was going down that path.. and as I started finding retailers that sell aquacultured fish I again bumped into Sea Horses!! I will share photos of my tank when ready!! 2 paired clowns / BTA / 2 paired mandarins / royal gramma / 3 cardinals. That is what I am thinking....

I applaud you for not forcing something that is not compatible with your lifestyle and being wise enough to recognise your limitations. Sadly many folks do not give it the serious consideration that you have and then either compromise the ponies' care or are forced to change their lifestyle.

I like the sounds of your aquacultured tank and will definitely enjoy checking in on it!

 

[vlangel]

I have made some additions to the seahorse tank. I do not recommend keeping fish for new seahorse keepers, but I am going to try adding some gentle blennies and cardinal fish to my tank. I QT the new additions even though some were CB.

I got 2 bangaii cardinal fish since they are a quiet specie. I already had 2 pajama cardinals which have worked out well. I also added a linear blenny who will graze on algae and 2 striped blennies. The tank is more interesting without feeling crowded or hectic. Hopefully the seahorses will not be nervous about the new fish.

Again let me state to new seahorse keepers that I am taking a risk and do not recommend this for beginner seahorse keepers. Even though I am not a novice and have kept seahorses for 4 years, I am a little nervous. I will be doing a lot of extra WCs above what I already do to offset the bioload and also to help flush the water column of pathogens my ponies may not have been exposed to. Still there are no guarantees. I will let you folks know how this goes.

 

[vlangel]

Here is a link to a video of the tank. I took it a few days ago and added prasipro to help with potential parasites. Since adding that none of the fish are scratching or twitching.

Also that's my hubby's music in the background so if you are not a fan of Rush you may not enjoy this video, haha.

 

[Chrisfish]

Beautiful video Dawn, I always love seeing your sea horses and the new fish are awesome. Thanks for the update

 

[vlangel]

Beautiful video Dawn, I always love seeing your sea horses and the new fish are awesome. Thanks for the update

Thanks Chris, I think the fish add interest because the seahorses spend so much time being hitched. They are adorably charming when they are doing something but 2 thirds of the time they are hitched to their favorite spot being boring. At least the fish swim and the blennies pop out of holes which makes them fun.

 

[vlangel]

I will be doing a lot of extra WCs above what I already do to offset the bioload and also to help flush the water column of pathogens my ponies may not have been exposed to. Still there are no guarantees. I will let you folks know how this goes.

Water changes are going well. I thought I would do 5Xs a week from the 3Xs a week that I used to do. Seeing how the skimmer reacted has me wondering if I should consider more water changes a week. The fish have definitely caused the protein skimmer to kick into high gear. Last night it bubbled up and overflowed the skimmer cup so much that the ATO almost needed a gallon of make up water. Fortunately the total system water is enough that the salinity was not negatively impacted.

 

[vlangel]

I just realized that this thread was 2 years old yesterday. I knew the anniversary was coming up.

Eve will have lived at my house for 4 years on Thursday which is cool.

 

[vlangel]

I am updating about how the seahorse tank is doing with the addition of fish. All 3 seahorses which were my primary concern are doing great. The fish on the other hand have presented some problems.

First the 2 barnacle blennies are small enough that I am afraid my dear little darling seahorses might eat them. I put them in my 10 gallon QT to live at least until they grow large enough not to be invited FOR dinner.

The linear blenny is a real cutey but it was harassing Delilah. I saw that and 10 minutes later it was swooped up in a net and also now resides in the QT.

The striped blennies which I was most fearful about actually mind their own buisness, swimming in the open water and have not presented a problem for the seahorses at all.

Finally I am sad to say that both bangaii cardinals died even though they did not manifest any evidence of disease.

 

[vlangel]

Only a week past my last update and unfortunately I need to report that Samson and Delilah both have bacterial infections. I noticed yesterday so they are in HT and being treated with triple sulfa. They have never been treated with anything since I got them so I plan to treat a full 2 weeks minimum before ending treatment. They are eating well and I am optimistic about the outcome since I caught it quick.

That being said, I think I need to make some changes. I knew all along that I was taking some risks. I had hoped that my tank husbandry and huge WCs would be enough to keep the ponies healthy. Obviously it was not. I can not say if it is the reef enviroment or keeping fish with them but I have decided to go back to a SHOWLR system. I still have my original 30 gallon XH tank so I will put some LR in it with some artificial decor until my Caulerpa begins to grow. The tank will be bb for easy clean up and I will hook it up to my established sump.

I am not saying that keeping a seahorse tank with lots of sand, LR, coral, macro algae and fish is not possible, but I am saying that it was not possible for me. The health of the ponies comes first. I am fortunate enough to not have suffered any loss of life and have a means of correcting my situation without a lot of money. I just wanted to let all of you know fyi.

 

[rayjay]

Sorry to hear that news. However, it MAY be that it would have happened anyway. However you have set up a system, IMO, it's really a case of finding out the "sweet point" of the excessive husbandry and water changes. It took me over a decade to realize just HOW obsessive I need to be for mine.
That being said, I'm positive in my own mind, that if I set up with a reef type setting, I would have to do even more than i'm doing now.
Once I figured I had it right, and no problems for a year, I backed off marginally and within 3-4 months, I ended up with pouch emphysema which then told me I backed off TOO much. Now I've been back to that excessive task again and no further problems for the last 17 months with 13 seahorses.
It's also important to keep in mind that someone else could set up exactly the same as my tanks, and do less than I do and still succeed. It's going to depend on the individual seahorses and what their own immunity is capable of. Just like humans, some are more susceptible and others are not.
I've ALSO come to believe that the more frequent feedings I do now compared to my first 13-14 yrs, have made my seahorses healthier and therefore more resistant to problems.
I hope I never ever have to post in the future that my theories have turned out wrong as I know I've been wrong before many times over the years.

 

[vlangel]

The seahorses are doing well in HT. All 3 are eating great and seem comfortable.

I have the 30 gallon cleaned up, and the bottom painted (on the outside) to look like sand. It's moved in to the livingroom and connected to the sump in the basement. Its not optimal to have 3 ponies in a 30 gallon tank but with the added volume of water in the sump I should be fine. I have an oversized skimmer, easy water changes and now husbandry in the tank will be much easier with a bb and less debris catchers. Also the flow and turnover will be quite high. I will have to make sure there are areas where the flow is slower if the seahorses want to rest.

Right now I am cycling a large rock/coral structure that I epoxied together for the seahorse tank. It will have some adorning macro algae and an easy coral or 2 but will be much simpler than my previous seahorse tanks. Everything should be ready when the seahorses are done with treatment in HT.

 

[vlangel]

FTS of new seahorses tank by Dawn Gilson, on Flickr
This is how the new seahorse tank looks at the moment. Do any of you think the seahorse ornament is tacky? Usually I go for a completely natural look but having the tank sandless already is not natural. I was going for a greek garden statuesque look but maybe I missed the mark. What do you all think?

 

[vlangel]

Both tanks together by Dawn Gilson, on Flickr
I put the tanks side by side. I used the same paint for both backrounds and when I replace the bulbs in both fixtures to be the same, both tanks should match, more or less.

 

[vlangel]

https://flic.kr/p/2b95zkH

Sorry about the link, this morning flickr would not let me imbed a photo. I rescaped to get less objects on the floor of the tank. It is easier to clean this way.

 

[vlangel]

Unique view! by Dawn Gilson, on Flickr
LOL, how about this view of Eve. She looks like a sea serpent!
Samson and Eve are in the tank but Samson is hanging out in the back. by Dawn Gilson, on Flickr
Samson is in the tank too but he is chillin' in the back. Delilah is still in HT but she is eating well and the area on her cheek with infection seems to be healing slowly.