DC pump or Peristaltic pump (Versa / Kamoer) for Feeding Calcium Reactor?

[enb141]

Hi, I've seen few videos and threads with people using either peristaltic pumps or DC pumps, some people say that have to migrate to DC pumps because peristatic pumps leak or don't have enough pressure or the output effluent is not enough, also they say that you have to change the tubing twice or at least once a year.

By the way on DC pumps, I think one of those new ones from current usa have a very good way to control the output and I don't have plans to use it with a needle valve so clogging won't be an issue.

So, which one do you guys still think are the reasons why should I get a DC pump or a Peristatic pump?

 

[KrisReef]

I have used many feed methods for calcium reactors and found stability with a

Kamoer​

They do require replacing the head tubing assembly but that "complicated" process is similar to replacing an electric toothbrush head. I also have the bubble doser. Control over the reaction gas and system flow allows for tuning and stability of operation that can be elusive otherwise, ime.

 

[enb141]

But why some people over internet says that for them Kamoer wasn't enough so they had to use a DC pump?

Do you have clogging leaking issues?

 

[KrisReef]

They say it because they experienced it? The volumn that can go through any set up is limited. I lowered the pH in the reaction chamber to make the effluent produce enough kH to feed my coral at a moderate flow for the meter. If I need more kH I can increase the flow through the reactor to supply additional carbonate for the corals. For any systen, there is a flow limit and a low pH limit for each setup that only allows so much coral melting output to dissolve in the system. A long time ago I had a tiny reactor that could not keep up, so I got a bigger one that allows more flow through it. Some folks get huge reaction chambers and put a regular flow pump onto it that they just adjust to provide a steady out put. Then they steadily bubble in C02 until the arrogonite starts to dissolve (they don't even use a pH meter) and they adjust the kH delivered to match the uptake in the tank. If the tank starts to grow the increase the CO2 input to increase kH output. I got tired of trying to adjust CO2 flows, or feed water flows, or dealing with cloughs in intakes that slowed feed water down, etc. The feed pump and the bubble doser provide points of control over the process that can easily be fine tuned compared to other methods. Both can work, I've had more reliable stability and superb adjustability of tank dkH with the metering pump and bubble doser. I didn't want the extra equipment but it's what I ended up with. I am much happier now than I was without it. Are they fail proof? No, they are equipment and will require attention to keep them operating over time.

 

[enb141]

They say it because they experienced it? The volumn that can go through any set up is limited. I lowered the pH in the reaction chamber to make the effluent produce enough kH to feed my coral at a moderate flow for the meter. If I need more kH I can increase the flow through the reactor to supply additional carbonate for the corals. For any systen, there is a flow limit and a low pH limit for each setup that only allows so much coral melting output to dissolve in the system. A long time ago I had a tiny reactor that could not keep up, so I got a bigger one that allows more flow through it. Some folks get huge reaction chambers and put a regular flow pump onto it that they just adjust to provide a steady out put. Then they steadily bubble in C02 until the arrogonite starts to dissolve (they don't even use a pH meter) and they adjust the kH delivered to match the uptake in the tank. If the tank starts to grow the increase the CO2 input to increase kH output. I got tired of trying to adjust CO2 flows, or feed water flows, or dealing with cloughs in intakes that slowed feed water down, etc. The feed pump and the bubble doser provide points of control over the process that can easily be fine tuned compared to other methods. Both can work, I've had more reliable stability and superb adjustability of tank dkH with the metering pump and bubble doser. I didn't want the extra equipment but it's what I ended up with. I am much happier now than I was without it. Are they fail proof? No, they are equipment and will require attention to keep them operating over time.

Yes they do, at least this guy did



I understand your point, but using the Kamoer is because you can fine tune it, well some DC pumps also have a huge fine tuning, for example those of current USA DC pumps, so at this point I'm trying to find out what should I get, either a high variable output DC pump or a Kamoer/Versa.

Most DC pumps only have like 3 or 4 speed settings, which make them pretty much useless for feeding a calcium reactor, but those from Current USA, you can fine tune very well, pretty much from 0% to 100%

 

[enb141]

Maybe a more technical question, how many RPMs or how many ml/m would I need for a 75 gallon tank?

 

[FishTruck]

Here is the issue... certain calcium reactors need a little bit of positive pressure to avoid air intrusion.

If you push tank water in with a peristaltic pump with an resistor on the outflow - it can work.... but, if an outflow line clogs you can over pressurize your reactor - and crack it. Peristaltic pumps can provide an enormous amount of pressure.

If you pull with a peristaltic pump, you can suck air in at any point in the system and fill the reactor with air bubbles. Some reactors are prone to this, others aren't.

You can use a regular pump to push the water in and use a resistance valve valve on the outlet. This works well and a small pump cannot make enough pressure to crack your reactor, but, it can be a little hard to maintain consistent or precise flow as adjustments on the outflow valve are not always precise. Knowing which pump will or won't crack your reactor is also a bit of guess work, unless specified in your users manual.

You can use a DC pump to push with a resistance valve after the reactor, and adjust the flow with some precision using the DC setting and/or also the resistor valve. You will have to manually measure the effluent rate if you want precision. Also, you need to make sure that at the maximum setting, the DC pump won't crack your reactor in the event of an outflow getting blocked.

You can use a regular pump to provide pressure (like a cheap maxi jet), then, use a peristaltic pump as the resistor to both provide the resistance and to precisely control the flow. This was the only way I could get my GEO618 to run without clogging up or gassing out. I also used a "T" fitting at the maxi jet to be sure that it could not crack the reactor.

All of this can be influenced by the position of your reactor (above, below, or level with your sump) and sometimes trial and error from cheap solutions to more expensive ones are necessary.

Peristaltic pumps are the most expensive solution, and by themselves not perfect, so I would go that route last.

(I finally gave all of this up, and went with a saturation type reactor after 10 years of fussing)

 

[FishTruck]

Regarding not enough volume, I did find that running huge volumes would help to avoid gassing out the reactor with air, but, this was not really the way the reactor is designed to work, and was really only a work around for air intrusion and inadequate flow restriction on the outflow.

Like Krisreef said, it depends on what your control points are for delivering "ALK" to you system.

if you are using PH control to open and close the CO2, delivered at an unknown or uncontrolled rate, the your water flow through the reactor is the control point and must be precise. The flow drives the CO2 delivery and therefore the ALK delivery.

On the other hand, if you can just deliver a steady amount of CO2 with precise control, then the flow through the reactor is not as critical. It just has to be enough that the acidity in the reactor does not cause a pH below 6.5 or so (which would turn your normal media to MUSH). I this case, if you bother measuring pH you would NOT use it as a control point, only to make sure that the pH does not get too low.

 

[paul01609]

Controller – for CalcFeeder PRO V3 (WiFi) - Pacific Sun EU

Controller - for CalcFeeder PRO V3 (WiFi) Controller unit made for CalcFeeder PRO V3 Reactor but can also be used as a very precise feeding pump for each other brand Calcium reactor. Controller can be connected and adjusted through Pacific Sun Cloud service - cloud.pacific-sun.eu Includes...

pacific-sun.eu

this what i use

 

[enb141]

Here is the issue... certain calcium reactors need a little bit of positive pressure to avoid air intrusion.

If you push tank water in with a peristaltic pump with an resistor on the outflow - it can work.... but, if an outflow line clogs you can over pressurize your reactor - and crack it. Peristaltic pumps can provide an enormous amount of pressure.

If you pull with a peristaltic pump, you can suck air in at any point in the system and fill the reactor with air bubbles. Some reactors are prone to this, others aren't.

You can use a regular pump to push the water in and use a resistance valve valve on the outlet. This works well and a small pump cannot make enough pressure to crack your reactor, but, it can be a little hard to maintain consistent or precise flow as adjustments on the outflow valve are not always precise. Knowing which pump will or won't crack your reactor is also a bit of guess work, unless specified in your users manual.

You can use a DC pump to push with a resistance valve after the reactor, and adjust the flow with some precision using the DC setting and/or also the resistor valve. You will have to manually measure the effluent rate if you want precision. Also, you need to make sure that at the maximum setting, the DC pump won't crack your reactor in the event of an outflow getting blocked.

You can use a regular pump to provide pressure (like a cheap maxi jet), then, use a peristaltic pump as the resistor to both provide the resistance and to precisely control the flow. This was the only way I could get my GEO618 to run without clogging up or gassing out. I also used a "T" fitting at the maxi jet to be sure that it could not crack the reactor.

All of this can be influenced by the position of your reactor (above, below, or level with your sump) and sometimes trial and error from cheap solutions to more expensive ones are necessary.

Peristaltic pumps are the most expensive solution, and by themselves not perfect, so I would go that route last.

(I finally gave all of this up, and went with a saturation type reactor after 10 years of fussing)

How do you know if yours if your calcium reactor is prone to catching up bubbles?

That's why I was thinking on using a DC pump with very fine tunning as the current usa pumps, those have from 0-100%, most other DC pumps only have like 5 different flowrates which make them useless for calcium reactors.

Excuse my ignorance, What is a Saturation Reactor?

Regarding not enough volume, I did find that running huge volumes would help to avoid gassing out the reactor with air, but, this was not really the way the reactor is designed to work, and was really only a work around for air intrusion and inadequate flow restriction on the outflow.

Like Krisreef said, it depends on what your control points are for delivering "ALK" to you system.

if you are using PH control to open and close the CO2, delivered at an unknown or uncontrolled rate, the your water flow through the reactor is the control point and must be precise. The flow drives the CO2 delivery and therefore the ALK delivery.

On the other hand, if you can just deliver a steady amount of CO2 with precise control, then the flow through the reactor is not as critical. It just has to be enough that the acidity in the reactor does not cause a pH below 6.5 or so (which would turn your normal media to MUSH). I this case, if you bother measuring pH you would NOT use it as a control point, only to make sure that the pH does not get too low.

I have a very precise CO2 injection, is a swagelok industrial grade valve.

So in resume, do you recommend to have both DC pump and also a peristaltic pump?

 

[outhouse]

You guys are overthinking this. GEO offers one of the better most stable Ca reactors out there, and they used to use cheap maxijet 900 pump. 15 bucks done.!!!! Mine is a decade old, gets cleaned every few years, and offers a perfect trickly that keeps my 300g perfect. Quit tinkering, or fine tuning, the whole point is set it and forget it, you make adjustments to your bubble count if need be. Run a secondary chamber, while your at it.

 

[outhouse]

You can use a regular pump to provide pressure (like a cheap maxi jet), then, use a peristaltic pump as the resistor to both provide the resistance and to precisely control the flow. This was the only way I could get my GEO618 to run without clogging up or gassing out. I also used a "T" fitting at the maxi jet to be sure that it could not crack the reactor.

BINGO

I dont need a T, the maxi doesnt have enough power to scratch a GEO 618, but with a peri, i understand

The trick is having enough flow that wont clog, once you get that dialed in, its only a matter of tweaking bubble count to match your tanks needs. what ive found is just a hair over a drip drip drip so that you have a small stream, and it wont clog every month or so.

 

[outhouse]

Maybe a more technical question, how many RPMs or how many ml/m would I need for a 75 gallon tank?

not how you do it. Output stays the same, and bubble count will melt enough media to match the tanks needs. a second chamber will help you fight PH issues. I also run the avast kalk reactor to help PH issues added to my ATO.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

kalk slurry instead of calcium reactor. Use a dosing pump to dose and another pump, or stirrer, whatever, to keep kalk in solution.

 

[FishTruck]

How do you know if yours if your calcium reactor is prone to catching up bubbles?

That's why I was thinking on using a DC pump with very fine tunning as the current usa pumps, those have from 0-100%, most other DC pumps only have like 5 different flowrates which make them useless for calcium reactors.

Excuse my ignorance, What is a Saturation Reactor?


I have a very precise CO2 injection, is a swagelok industrial grade valve.

So in resume, do you recommend to have both DC pump and also a peristaltic pump?

Regarding bubbles, if you try to pull water using a peristaltic pump, as recommended on some videos, it may fill with air.

If you have precise CO2 injection, I would not bother with either a peristaltic pump or a DC pump. Just get a maxijet to push water into the reactor, and a resistance valve to control the flow at whatever starting flow and bubble count is recommended for your reactor.

You can check the alkalinity of the effluent, and the pH to have the pH targeted to your media choice. Then, just adjust the CO2 up and down (slowly) to meet the ALK demands of your tank. If the flow goes up and down a bit, it will not affect the ALK delivery in any significant way. Just make sure the pH doesn't get too low, or your media will turn to mush.

Just like outhouse said.

If you try to get fancy, and use a pH controller to turn the CO2 on and off, that's where things get squirrely and you become dependent on very precise flow.

 

[enb141]

Regarding bubbles, if you try to pull water using a peristaltic pump, as recommended on some videos, it may fill with air.

If you have precise CO2 injection, I would not bother with either a peristaltic pump or a DC pump. Just get a maxijet to push water into the reactor, and a resistance valve to control the flow at whatever starting flow and bubble count is recommended for your reactor.

You can check the alkalinity of the effluent, and the pH to have the pH targeted to your media choice. Then, just adjust the CO2 up and down (slowly) to meet the ALK demands of your tank. If the flow goes up and down a bit, it will not affect the ALK delivery in any significant way. Just make sure the pH doesn't get too low, or your media will turn to mush.

Just like outhouse said.

If you try to get fancy, and use a pH controller to turn the CO2 on and off, that's where things get squirrely and you become dependent on very precise flow.

I'm trying to void that clog, so that's why I'm trying to decide if a DC pump or a peristaltic pump, because as you said, using a cheap pump with no "speed" control to rely on a valve to control the flow, this will likely clog.

In other words, what I'm trying to understand is what can I use instead of a valve control, a DC pump like current usa with a huge range or speeds for pushing water to the chamber or a peristaltic pump to suck air/water from the chamber.

 

[FishTruck]

To avoid clogs in 1/4 inch tubing, I have found these to be a lifesaver. Cheap fuel filters from amazon. Change them monthly or sooner as needed. Using the peristatic pump instead of the resistance valve also is less prone to clogging, but, I use these filters too.

 

[enb141]

But those "filters" as far as I know are just Check Valves, I'm I wrong?

 

[Water Dog]

But those "filters" as far as I know are just Check Valves, I'm I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. Those are not check valves, they are fuel filters. The fuel filter prevents clogging when using a needle valve to dial in your effluent rate when using a centrifugal pump, be it AC or DC, to push through your calcium reactor. For a more detailed explanation of how they work, please see from post #17 to 22 of this thread…

Frustrated with my Geo Calcium Reactor

I constantly have issues with air or co2 build up in my @geo reactor. I clear it out (as much as I can), it's quiet, and then within 36 hours the pump is making noise again, chopping up air bubbles. :mad: I had an ok run for a little while, and now that I added more media and added on the second...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[enb141]

Yes, you are wrong. Those are not check valves, they are fuel filters. The fuel filter prevents clogging when using a needle valve to dial in your effluent rate when using a centrifugal pump, be it AC or DC, to push through your calcium reactor. For a more detailed explanation of how they work, please see from post #17 to 22 of this thread…

Frustrated with my Geo Calcium Reactor

I constantly have issues with air or co2 build up in my @geo reactor. I clear it out (as much as I can), it's quiet, and then within 36 hours the pump is making noise again, chopping up air bubbles. :mad: I had an ok run for a little while, and now that I added more media and added on the second...

www.reef2reef.com

I see, so you use those ones as prefilters, so your tubing wont get clogged by particles.

So do you use them before the water enters to your chamber but, do your system uses pushing water to the chamber or pulling water from the chamber?