DC Pumps: Ecotech vs. Royal Exclusiv vs. Abyzz

[Breadman03]

How do you like the RD pump after running it for a while?

My 5 year old RD3-230 is flawless.

 

[JoshH]

I believe running 1inch line is restricting the pump far to much. These don’t do very well with head pressure. Not sure but I believe it needs a minimum of 1.5 inch.

Been a while since this comment but you do bring up a very valid point. People often focus on the actual height of the plumbing and leave out things such as elbows, valves, fittings in general, outlets etc even just the friction of the water within the pipe (Moreso the case with smaller plumbing 1.5" or less give or take). These all reduce flow and are part of a Total Dynamic Head calculation that should be figured out when trying to size up an appropriate pump for your system.

I am by no means an expert on the subject just sharing things I've discovered through my return pump selection woes. Even a simple 1" return with 3 elbows and a length of 5 feet has 3+ FT of friction loss at 1000 GPH. This means you should be sizing your pump based off of 8 FT of head height and not 5 if you want 1000 GPH.

Certainly doesn't explain the Vectra woes but still food for thought for those looking at pumps especially for basement setups where long plumbing runs can add 6+ FT of head height just in friction loss alone.

 

[ross0201]

My 5 year old RD3-230 is flawless.

Good to hear!

 

[NeverlosT]

How do you like the RD pump after running it for a while?

It has been pretty rock solid. Quiet, cool, powerful. If I was going to run another DC return on my new system, I'd get a 2nd one. I do need to take it apart though and see how fouled it is or if the cooling system is working well. I just suspect it is working well from how cool the pump is.

 

[ross0201]

It has been pretty rock solid. Quiet, cool, powerful. If I was going to run another DC return on my new system, I'd get a 2nd one. I do need to take it apart though and see how fouled it is or if the cooling system is working well. I just suspect it is working well from how cool the pump is.

Great to hear! I'm shopping a bit for a new pump.

 

[drtrash]

Have to agree with above, rd3 pumps are awesome, running a 50 on 100 gal and plenty of flow, silent and no measurable heat transfer matter of fact, dropped temp 1-2 deg over tunze silence. Only complaint is old style has controller permanently attached, more work to clean

 

[acer]

Well it's been another gap since I visited this thread. Unless I missed something out there I am Very dissappointed that someone has not come up with a solid decent pump (doesn't sound like a train and will last for 3 years) to push 1200 GPH up 12-14 feet of head pressure for less than $700. Just lost my second Hammerhead - need to take it apart to diagnose the high pitched whining, but based on research it's a bearing. Still looks like the "cheapest" is the Red dragon unless I want to get my third Reeflo and put up with the noise (in basement so not a huge deal) and the fact I will be putting a new seal in it in about12 months.

So it looks like for me this is the best fit: https://premiumaquatics.com/product...3-100w-high-pressure-pump-10v-connection.html

 

[JoshH]

Well it's been another gap since I visited this thread. Unless I missed something out there I am Very dissappointed that someone has not come up with a solid decent pump (doesn't sound like a train and will last for 3 years) to push 1200 GPH up 12-14 feet of head pressure for less than $700. Just lost my second Hammerhead - need to take it apart to diagnose the high pitched whining, but based on research it's a bearing. Still looks like the "cheapest" is the Red dragon unless I want to get my third Reeflo and put up with the noise (in basement so not a huge deal) and the fact I will be putting a new seal in it in about12 months.

So it looks like for me this is the best fit: https://premiumaquatics.com/product...3-100w-high-pressure-pump-10v-connection.html

I was about to shell out for a Reeflo pump then I read your thread and it gave me pause. I know there are other alternatives out there like Iwaki and Panworld/Blueline for AC pumps, have you looked into those??

I'm looking at 16-17' of head pressure in my situation and it SERIOUSLY limits the competition

 

[acer]

Yep, I immediately can tell you to be prepared for a "train" on iwaki, panworld or Blueline pumps that will serve the GPH and HH you have. I have used all for setups below the tank with great results, but when u ho bigger for a basement sump setup they will be loud. If you have a designated area that you can close a good door, then no big deal. My setup doesn't and I dose, have my QT tank , and other stuff that I mess around will all in the same room. So a loud return pump is irritating. My Reeflo was actually quiet compared to those. I think it's because they are smaller pumps in actual size and so the fan has to move very very fast= high pitched noise.

I just found this - anybody have any real experience with the new Maxspect return Pumps= https://www.aquacave.com/maxspect-jump-dc-12k-water-pump.html

Based on the chart provided ( accurate?? ) that would be about 1500 GPH at my 12 -13 Head pressure.

 

[JoshH]

Yep, I immediately can tell you to be prepared for a "train" on iwaki, panworld or Blueline pumps that will serve the GPH and HH you have. I have used all for setups below the tank with great results, but when u ho bigger for a basement sump setup they will be loud. If you have a designated area that you can close a good door, then no big deal. My setup doesn't and I dose, have my QT tank , and other stuff that I mess around will all in the same room. So a loud return pump is irritating. My Reeflo was actually quiet compared to those. I think it's because they are smaller pumps in actual size and so the fan has to move very very fast= high pitched noise.

I do have a separate sump room but it is where my QT setups will be as well. I'm not a huge fan of constant noise which is a real bummer if I'm going to be working around them constantly. I REALLY wish you hadn't told me that, I hate the thought of spending $2K+ on a return pump ;Bored

 

[acer]

Something tells me - its too good to be true- so IT ISN"T.. LOL

edit: Yep - cant find a single review on the "Jump 12K pump". Pretty weird for a pump thats been on the market fro about a year. Obviously not really competing with aan Abyzz or a Red Dragon/exclusive- but at $250 each buy three and if they last 12-18 months you can alwasy have a back up ready to go.

 

[JoshH]

Something tells me - its too good to be true- so IT ISN"T.. LOL

edit: Yep - cant find a single review on the "Jump 12K pump". Pretty weird for a pump thats been on the market fro about a year. Obviously not really competing with aan Abyzz or a Red Dragon/exclusive- but at $250 each buy three and if they last 12-18 months you can alwasy have a back up ready to go.

I had thought they were just released a month or two ago, I JUST got an email about them the other week.

 

[TheHarold]

Yep, I immediately can tell you to be prepared for a "train" on iwaki, panworld or Blueline pumps that will serve the GPH and HH you have. I have used all for setups below the tank with great results, but when u ho bigger for a basement sump setup they will be loud. If you have a designated area that you can close a good door, then no big deal. My setup doesn't and I dose, have my QT tank , and other stuff that I mess around will all in the same room. So a loud return pump is irritating. My Reeflo was actually quiet compared to those. I think it's because they are smaller pumps in actual size and so the fan has to move very very fast= high pitched noise.

I just found this - anybody have any real experience with the new Maxspect return Pumps= https://www.aquacave.com/maxspect-jump-dc-12k-water-pump.html

Based on the chart provided ( accurate?? ) that would be about 1500 GPH at my 12 -13 Head pressure.

@Jeff@CoralVue would probably know more about it. It was just released so doesn’t have many reviews yet. That head height stat does seem very high for a DC pump!

edit: I think you have the stat wrong. 12ft is 3.6m, and graph is giving KLPH,kilo-liters. 4 KLPH= 1000gph.

 

[acer]

I would be happy with 1000 GPH for my 150 tank with a few wave type pumps for flow around coral/rock, but yes your right- I just glanced quickly and rounded like crazy. Seems like its too good to be true.

 

[TheHarold]

I would be happy with 1000 GPH for my 150 tank with a few wave type pumps for flow around coral/rock, but yes your right- I just glanced quickly and rounded like crazy. Seems like its too good to be true.

Well, that 1000gph is before any plumbing too. I agree it will probably work fine- there are also online calculators that estimate how much flow you’ll lose due to 90s etc.

PVC Pipes - Equivalent Length and Pressure Loss in Fittings

Minor loss in PVC and CPVC fittings expressed as equivalent length of straight pipe.

www.google.com

 

[acer]

yep- so to be accurate and detailed. Currently using 1.5 inch flex pvc goes straight up from pump to tank above - then a Y splitter into two 1" for 2.5 feet lengths to drop into back two corners of the 150 gallon display. So 10 feet of 1.5 inch flex PVC lift vertical, a Y splitter, then 5 feet ( 2.5 inch each way) of 1 inch horizontal. I figure about 12-13 or am I missing something? Guess I am not adding friction of the pipe itself. So add how much for that? I am no engineer and downloading software from an unknown sight to use once is against my better judgement if I can just ask.

According to the charts above= yes 3.6 meter Head pressure = 4KLPH = 1000 GPH. I send a PM to Jeff@coralvue to see if he can say how accurate the real world applications are.

Compared to this from Royal exclusive: http://royalexclusiv.net/images/content/rd_3/eng/rd3_speedy_100_SALT_HP_eng.pdf

According to these charts the Maxpect K12 jump pushes about 1000 more GPH than the Red Dragon 100 high pressure pump. Thats hard to believe.

 

[JoshH]

yep- so to be accurate and detailed. Currently using 1.5 inch flex pvc goes straight up from pump to tank above - then a Y splitter into two 1" for 2.5 feet lengths to drop into back two corners of the 150 gallon display. So 10 feet of 1.5 inch flex PVC lift vertical, a Y splitter, then 5 feet ( 2.5 inch each way) of 1 inch horizontal. I figure about 12-13 or am I missing something? Guess I am not adding friction of the pipe itself. So add how much for that? I am no engineer and downloading software from an unknown sight to use once is against my better judgement if I can just ask.

According to the charts above= yes 3.6 meter Head pressure = 4KLPH = 1000 GPH. I send a PM to Jeff@coralvue to see if he can say how accurate the real world applications are.

Compared to this from Royal exclusive: http://royalexclusiv.net/images/content/rd_3/eng/rd3_speedy_100_SALT_HP_eng.pdf

According to these charts the Maxpect K12 jump pushes about 1000 more GPH than the Red Dragon 100 high pressure pump. Thats hard to believe.

You could probably get a really accurate picture of your actual total dynamic head pressure using this calculator. For your bends you'll want to use the large radius 90° elbow for a bit of a better representation...

On-Line Friction Piping Loss

Plug in your numbers for the pipe using the schedule 40 pvc option. It will give you a number for the friction loss of your setup in head height which you add to the vertical head height which gives you your total head height.

For instance my actual rise in height of my plumbing is 10' like yours, however I have 5 elbows and 15ish feet of horizontal run which with 1.5" plumbing adds another 6.25' of head height in friction loss alone at 1200 GPH. This brings my TDH (what the pump will actually be fighting against) to 16.25'. Which seriously limits my pump selection ;Shifty

 

[acer]

I heard back from Jeff and your right " The Harold" - the Maxspect pump is a "no go" - I really appreciated his honesty. SO much for the flow chart. Also, the Red Dragon 100 watt Mini speedy, comes in at a dismal 3000lph= 790 GPH at 12-14 feet head pressure for $850. The newer Sicce 9.0 or 10.0 for around $300 according to the their charts also have about 4000LPH at 3.5 meter head pressure, but I expect they will also fall way short in real world applications. https://www.sicce.com/en/products/multifunction-pumps/syncra-adv.html

The next step up is the 150 watt Red Dragon = or the 230 watt for $1150 or $1350 respectively - at that price you might as well get the Abyzz for $1500 and that even only will do 1000GPH for me.

Guess I will limp along for a while on the mag 18 I have running , with 3/4 inch hose, until I fix a seal, bearing, or get a new hammerhead.

Well- pray for me - the wife is NOT going to be happy. LOL - I wonder how many mani/pedi's, highlights, etc add up to $1500.

edit: I just found this - http://royalexclusiv.net/images/content/rd_3/eng/rd3_speedy_150_eng.pdf which looks like it will handle my application well for $1230

 

[acer]

I got my replacement /backup Scimz Leopard L110 pump up and running after changing my plumbing to accommodate it. It is blessedly silent compared to my hammerhead, but its pathetic at pushing water compared to the Hammerhead. Will be taking apart both damaged/disabled hammerheads in my garage this weekend. I did find this pump today:

Search results for: '' - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.marinedepot.com

https://www.f3images.com/IMD/UserManuals/UJ4090.pdf

Just more food for thought.

 

[fftfk]

What a great thread! I just read the whole thing hoping to answer my question and still have a question. I have an Iwaki MD-100RLT with it valved down about 50%. The thing has no problem pushing water but is just too loud. It is in the basement and even with the door shut to the fish room and door shut to the basement we can hear it upstairs.

My basement sump has about 15 feet of total head. It is about 10 feet of actual head plus another 5 for friction, bends, etc.

My reading indicates general consensus is RD3 < Abyzz but you're not really going to go wrong with either. I am looking at these three pumps:

1. Abyzz A100 - $1,500.
2. RD3 100 Watt High Pressure - $850
3. RD3 150 Watt - $1,150.

All three are about the same amount of head pressure at 18-19 feet. What does the high pressure designation mean on the RD3 100 watt? I don't understand the difference in cost between the two? What does the high pressure designation mean? I can't find a clear explanation.

If the RD3 100 watt will work it seems a no brainer to go with that with both lower initial and overall operating costs.

If the 100 watt won't work things get a little more interesting. The price difference is close enough between the Abyzz and RD3 150 Watt I might just go ahead and bite the bullet. From people who have had the abyzz...do you perceive any real difference? Is it just fit and finish or are there any other benefits of Abyzz over RD3?