Dead fish and inverts overnight, no explanation.

[AndrewRyan]

I woke up this morning to find my Tomini Tang, Orchid Dottyback, Cleaner Shrimp and Emerald Crab dead. Still alive are my hermit crabs, snails, and my two clowns. Only have a few corals in the tank (euphyllia) and these seem to be doing OK. I have not identified the a cause which is the worst part. I'd be willing to accept my mistake if I knew what it was.

I tested everything yesterday afternoon and while some parameters in the tank weren't exactly where I want them to be, nothing I saw explains the sudden die off overnight. Parameters below:

Salinity: 1.026
Ammonia: 0 (Saltwater Reef Test Kit and Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge)
Nitrate: 8.3 ppm (Hanna)
Phosphate: 0.18 ppm (Hanna)
Alkalinity: 7 dKH (Hanna)
Calcium: 471 (Hanna)
Magnesium: 1360 (Hanna)

Checked heater and it's still working properly: 78 degrees

The problem is I made too many changes in the past 24 hours to know how to rule things out. The clean up crew (all still alive) came in yesterday and were introduced to the tank. Also coming with the CuC was some Chaeto which was added to the refugium with a dedicated light coming on for the first time last night for about 6 hours. My new Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer showed up yesterday as well and after assembling it and cleaning it up with RO/DI I turned it on in the tank (and left it overnight) to begin the "break-in" process. I also added some additional bio blocks to the tank (one new and one from a previous system that has been sitting in storage for over 6 months).

First thought was ammonia spike (from previously used bio block or addition of CuC/Chaeto) but none of my tests indicate it. Then I thought maybe an electrical spike from a faulty skimmer? Don't no how to test for that really other than I haven't noticed any power issues and my hands have been in the tank this morning without issue. I'm thinking O2 could be an issue associated with this type of die off, but half the inhabitants survived and if anything leaving the skimmer on overnight would increase it, not decrease it.

Think I have learned my lesson about making multiple significant changes in a short time period, but it still is driving me crazy that I don't know what's going on. What caused this? Why would some fish/invertebrates die and other fish/invertebrates survive? I removed the added bio blocks, turned off the skimmer, removed deceased occupants and now I need to know how to proceed.

I dosed Prime this morning, before heading out for work. I'm guessing massive water change when I get home tonight and hope for the best with the live inhabitants remaining, but then what? Do I leave the skimmer off and if so for how long?

Appreciate any guidance that can be offered. Consistently humbled and engaged by this hobby...

 

[MnFish1]

The problem is I made too many changes in the past 24 hours to know how to rule things out.

POSSIBLY.

The clean up crew (all still alive) came in yesterday and were introduced to the tank. Also coming with the CuC was some Chaeto which was added to the refugium with a dedicated light coming on for the first time last night for about 6 hours.

IF THE CUC ARE STILL ALIVE - THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD SIGN - BUT OFTEN THESE CAN BE MORE RESILIENT. CHAETO SHOULDNT BE AN ISSUE. I DIDNT NOTICE UNTIL JUST NOW THAT SOME CORALS LIVED AS WELL. The title made it seem like all the inverts died.

My new Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer showed up yesterday as well and after assembling it and cleaning it up with RO/DI I turned it on in the tank (and left it overnight) to begin the "break-in" process.

COULD THERE HAVE BEEN A TOXIN, ETC ON THE SKIMMER/DID YOU RINSE IT FIRST?

I also added some additional bio blocks to the tank (one new and one from a previous system that has been sitting in storage for over 6 months).

THIS COULD BE PART OF THE PROBLEM DEPENDING ON WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THE BLOCK (DEAD or a CHEMICAL) FROM THE PREVIOUS SYSTEM

First thought was ammonia spike (from previously used bio block or addition of CuC/Chaeto) but none of my tests indicate it

TRUE. Note some corals, fish, etc are less susceptible to ammonia - and a spike is still possible. It would be nice to know how old the tank and fish were, etc.

. Then I thought maybe an electrical spike from a faulty skimmer? Don't no how to test for that really other than I haven't noticed any power issues and my hands have been in the tank this morning without issue.

DOUBT. An spike that killed almost everything probably would have killed everything.

I'm thinking O2 could be an issue associated with this type of die off, but half the inhabitants survived and if anything leaving the skimmer on overnight would increase it, not decrease it.

I WAS THINKING THIS TOO - FROM THE BIOBLOCK, etc - BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THATS UNLIKELY. Note that some fish are more tolerant of ammonia, and low O2 than others. Your clowns survived - and they tend to be 'more hardy'.

The fact that some inverts also died - suggest that it was not a 'disease'.

Hope this helps - and I think your original comment - it's hard to tell - is true.

 

[MnFish1]

I woke up this morning to find my Tomini Tang, Orchid Dottyback, Cleaner Shrimp and Emerald Crab dead. Still alive are my hermit crabs, snails, and my two clowns. Only have a few corals in the tank (euphyllia) and these seem to be doing OK. I have not identified the a cause which is the worst part. I'd be willing to accept my mistake if I knew what it was.

I tested everything yesterday afternoon and while some parameters in the tank weren't exactly where I want them to be, nothing I saw explains the sudden die off overnight. Parameters below:

Salinity: 1.026
Ammonia: 0 (Saltwater Reef Test Kit and Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge)
Nitrate: 8.3 ppm (Hanna)
Phosphate: 0.18 ppm (Hanna)
Alkalinity: 7 dKH (Hanna)
Calcium: 471 (Hanna)
Magnesium: 1360 (Hanna)

Checked heater and it's still working properly: 78 degrees

The problem is I made too many changes in the past 24 hours to know how to rule things out. The clean up crew (all still alive) came in yesterday and were introduced to the tank. Also coming with the CuC was some Chaeto which was added to the refugium with a dedicated light coming on for the first time last night for about 6 hours. My new Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer showed up yesterday as well and after assembling it and cleaning it up with RO/DI I turned it on in the tank (and left it overnight) to begin the "break-in" process. I also added some additional bio blocks to the tank (one new and one from a previous system that has been sitting in storage for over 6 months).

First thought was ammonia spike (from previously used bio block or addition of CuC/Chaeto) but none of my tests indicate it. Then I thought maybe an electrical spike from a faulty skimmer? Don't no how to test for that really other than I haven't noticed any power issues and my hands have been in the tank this morning without issue. I'm thinking O2 could be an issue associated with this type of die off, but half the inhabitants survived and if anything leaving the skimmer on overnight would increase it, not decrease it.

Think I have learned my lesson about making multiple significant changes in a short time period, but it still is driving me crazy that I don't know what's going on. What caused this? Why would some fish/invertebrates die and other fish/invertebrates survive? I removed the added bio blocks, turned off the skimmer, removed deceased occupants and now I need to know how to proceed.

I dosed Prime this morning, before heading out for work. I'm guessing massive water change when I get home tonight and hope for the best with the live inhabitants remaining, but then what? Do I leave the skimmer off and if so for how long?

Appreciate any guidance that can be offered. Consistently humbled and engaged by this hobby...

PS - I would not leave the skimmer off. I would make sure you have adequate flow. You may want to consider removing the bioblocks (why did you add them> - is it a new tank?). have you checked nitrite/nitrate. Nitrite - since may be high IF there was an ammonia spike.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Reef animals live in a 'dynamic equilibrium' environment. Essentially, small fluctuations occur, but the environment tends to move back to the stabile state.

Same applies to our reef aquariums. In most cases, any changes that you make should be small and gradual over a good length of time and preferably one at a time (so you can clearly observe the effects, if any).

Where to go from here? If your parameters are all within reef keeping norms, then keep up with maintenance but let the system be for a while and observe the environment/animals over time. Only take action/make changes to address real bona-fide issues that you observe.

Part of the success in this hobby is in knowing when not to do things (not just for the sake of doing things)

 

[AndrewRyan]

Part of the success in this hobby is in knowing when not to do things (not just for the sake of doing things)

This is the hardest part of the hobby (and life) for me. I have trouble not looking for things that I can do. I am just disappointed in myself in this case. I know better, but have trouble sitting still.

 

[AndrewRyan]

PS - I would not leave the skimmer off. I would make sure you have adequate flow. You may want to consider removing the bioblocks (why did you add them> - is it a new tank?). have you checked nitrite/nitrate. Nitrite - since may be high IF there was an ammonia spike.

Thanks. I'll turn the skimmer back on after a large water change this evening. In what can only be described as an overreaction this morning, I pulled the bio blocks and threw both away. I don't know why I added the new or old one, tbh. I was looking at my sump and thought "that space would be good for some additional bio filtration."

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks. I'll turn the skimmer back on after a large water change this evening. In what can only be described as an overreaction this morning, I pulled the bio blocks and threw both away. I don't know why I added the new or old one, tbh. I was looking at my sump and thought "that space would be good for some additional bio filtration."

My strong guess is that the problem was somehow caused by them. Are you using any carbon (activated) btw?

 

[Nano sapiens]

Thanks. I'll turn the skimmer back on after a large water change this evening. In what can only be described as an overreaction this morning, I pulled the bio blocks and threw both away. I don't know why I added the new or old one, tbh. I was looking at my sump and thought "that space would be good for some additional bio filtration."

Just for reference, I have run my systems with just the basics for flow, light, heat (no filtration media, skimmer, etc.) for near 40 years now. My current 12g nano is nearly 15 years and is a breeze to run...as long as I don't tinker with it too much

 

[AndrewRyan]

My strong guess is that the problem was somehow caused by them. Are you using any carbon (activated) btw?

I have had activated carbon running in the system. Just changed it out a couple days back.

I am also leaning towards the old bio block being the issue. It upsets me greatly that things were humming along in a healthy system until I "helped" and potentially poisoned it. I've involved my 7-year-old son greatly in the journey of this tank (to include livestock selection), which makes it even more hard to stomach.

 

[Super Fly]

how long has the tank been up and running?

 

[AndrewRyan]

how long has the tank been up and running?

Two months at this point, though I've only sincerely begun adding livestock (other than the clownfish) the last few weeks.

 

[I never finish anythi]

Just take things slow . Sometimes making to many changes turns out worse than the actual problem you trying to fix .

 

[Super Fly]

Two months at this point, though I've only sincerely begun adding livestock (other than the clownfish) the last few weeks.

sorry to say but I believe too much livestock (including corals) was added too quickly and the tank could not support all the new life. In any new system, I usually add just 1-2 fish at a time then wait 2-3 weeks before adding more livestock to give the tank's young beneficial bacteria time to stabilize and catch up so it can handle the additional bioload. Like others have said, try to slow things down and let the tank stabilize for now. GL

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I'm sorry that happened. Its hard to find any one reason based on the info you provide, but I get the impression you are tinkering with your tank a lot lately. The more you touch and tinker with the tank, the greater the chance for error somewhere. And you likely wouldn't even realize it.

 

[AndrewRyan]

sorry to say but I believe too much livestock (including corals) was added too quickly and the tank could not support all the new life. In any new system, I usually add just 1-2 fish at a time then wait 2-3 weeks before adding more livestock to give the tank's young beneficial bacteria time to stabilize and catch up so it can handle the additional bioload. Like others have said, try to slow things down and let the tank stabilize for now. GL

I agree with you and think that I let excitement get the best of me concerning timeline, despite knowing better. However, don't you feel like there may be a more acute reason why 2 fish and two inverts would die together in an 8 hour period given the recent changes to my setup? Things were good and all livestock appeared to be thriving and had been for weeks and then suddenly... At the end of the day, I accept that there is likely a series of mistakes I have made in my planning and in my patience but if there is an acute reason why I caused this to happen I'd like to identify it (or at least narrow it down).

For now, I plan to do a massive water change tonight and then "wait and see" whilst hoping for the best. Does that sound reasonable or would you recommend additional action(s)? If you don't think there is anything additional to be done, how long would you wait before reintroducing 1-2 fish? 2-3 weeks or longer?

 

[Nano sapiens]

I have had activated carbon running in the system. Just changed it out a couple days back.

I am also leaning towards the old bio block being the issue. It upsets me greatly that things were humming along in a healthy system until I "helped" and potentially poisoned it. I've involved my 7-year-old son greatly in the journey of this tank (to include livestock selection), which makes it even more hard to stomach.

Don't beat yourself up too hard, as it's all a part of the learning experience. Some of us have been at this for many decades and still can get tripped up on occasion

 

[AndrewRyan]

I'm sorry that happened. Its hard to find any one reason based on the info you provide, but I get the impression you are tinkering with your tank a lot lately. The more you touch and tinker with the tank, the greater the chance for error somewhere. And you likely wouldn't even realize it.

That is an impression grounded in reality. I enjoy spending time with the tank and for me that amounts to thinking of different ways to try to improve it. Obviously that had the opposite effect and that's disappointing.

I appreciate your condolences.

 

[Nano sapiens]

For now, I plan to do a massive water change tonight and then "wait and see" whilst hoping for the best...

Realise that a massive water change in a sense is a de-stabilizing event. You would only need this to correct something major like 'I dropped a whole bottle of product 'XXX' into the display' and required immediate dillusion.

Once again, normal feeding/regular maintenance and observe over the next few weeks. If all looks okay, then you can try slowly adding more animals.

 

[AndrewRyan]

Realise that a massive water change in a sense is a de-stabilizing event. You would only need this to correct something major like 'I dropped a whole bottle of product 'XXX' into the display' and required immediate dillusion.

Once again, normal feeding/regular maintenance and observe over the next few weeks. If all looks okay, then you can try slowly adding animals.

Understood, I'll get back to the routine and not introduce anything additional to the system for the next few weeks.

To confirm, you are advocating I do not do a large water change? I just don't know why the die off occurred and thought that was the safest course of action.

Instead, test tonight and if parameters are within reason hold to a 10% water change or perhaps no water change at all?

 

[dedragon]

Then I thought maybe an electrical spike from a faulty skimmer? Don't no how to test for that really other than I haven't noticed any power issues and my hands have been in the tank this morning without issue.

try using a cheap multimeter to test if there is any stray voltage