Debating the use of LED's in Mike Paletta's new tank

[Jeff Hall]

I like fish

 

[MTBake]

What I find funny is I use halides and I like them a lot But even I know LEDs can and will grow Corals just as good as halides and it has been proven time and time again
Wwc Sanjay vivid battlecorals and soon palettes tank (off the top of my head)

A grandis since I have seen him on this website has always diss on leds which just gets old
Grandis the MACNA video from Tulio that you posted means what?
Have u talked to Tulio in real life been to his shop and actually picked his brain?
You must have Reefbrite pendants like me right?
O no tulios pendants and ballast didn’t work out for you did they? But u don’t tell people that u only tell them what u want to hear.

And the icing on the cake where is you fts? If your going to bash leds the way u do In every light thread you should at least have a photo of ur world renown tank that can make sanjays and wwc look like as bad as the leds they run
But u don’t and u won’t
all you have is words that’s it
sure there are plenty of halide tanks run with success but halides have been around from the beginning of the hobby so of course there is going to be more success stories of halides over leds but it doesn’t mean leds can’t do the same job

Ur bashing progress in our hobby for what? U have ur opinion and that’s great but stop forceing it on us say what u beleive and move on don’t question one of the best hobbyist ever because he wants to run his tank with leds
How about you open up ur mind and see that esp in this hobby there are multiple ways to get to the same point

Ps We’re still waiting for a picture of ur tank so U can prove ur point that leds can’t grow corals but from the zero photos U have put up I would say halides can’t grow Corals for u

Nailed it!

I use halides but do not bash or question leds. Halides, leds, T5, and power compact even can all grow corals. Not sure why this keeps coming up to be honest. Use what you want and be happy.

 

[A. grandis]

By the way... here is a copy of the first post where this thread came from. It was a comment of Rico's video.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-new-tank-by-mike-paletta.424677/page-3#post-4976677

I didn't know I was hated by so many. ;Wideyed
Believe me my friends, if I hated LEDs I would tell you! I think many of you would love to hear that from me!!!!! Not going to happen.
I forgive all of you. I hope you guys can understand better what's going on after this post.
I'm not alone in this too, and I'm not a leader against anyone or anything. Too bad I have a lot of followers that hates me.

I apologize and want to say to Mr. Paletta that I still respect him very much and appreciate all he does for the hobby independent of anything he does. I just wanted to hear from him why the controversy and flaming on halides using those arguments and promoting so much the LEDs against it. That's what I don't agree. IMHO he shouldn't say that!

But hey, we're not supposed to agree with everything anyone says just because, right? And all have the freedom of speech.
We still can be polite and avoid personal attacks! Please, this is a hobby.

"

Thanks Mike - great post and this provides great additional information.

The recent video with Rico on YouTube is awesome and everyone should watch it who likes this article.





Georgi, Mike has also done a heap of YouTube videos through American Reef. There is one where he goes through a bunch of equipment that he uses to save time. Mike can correct me if I have something wrong but from watching his videos once the tank is established Mike doesn't have much to do. He has connected up all the RODI stuff etc. and his Calcium Reactor is a special type that uses larger chunks of media that takes a long time to dissolve is super simple to clean (I think he has cleaned it once in a year). He feeds often and has a lot of fish. He has always experimented but does have a method and strategy to most things especially with ways he can save time That is what I learned in those videos at least

Thanks for the video!
Mr. Paletta wrote in the article:

"First, the best tank I have ever had was the 500-gallon tank that preceded the 1200. It was literally packed top to bottom with thriving colorful healthy colonies and did not require a whole lot of work."


That tank had metal halides and colorful corals!!! The pictures in the article show that!
Why is he promoting LEDs so much and diminishing halides in that video?
Doesn't make any sense! Why does he say corals are brown under halides????

What's going on with Mr. Paletta's talking about lighting here @10:13 ???
We have 150W, 175W, 250W, 400W and 1000W halide options. Each should be used depending on the need for it's application. Also, 10K, 14K, 20K... Not really necessary to use the 65Ks! Metal halides, when well planned and used for that particular system, will give the very best growth AND colors to ANY tank with SPS corals. Sunlight is the very best for colors and growth!!! 6500K bulbs will give you amazing colors and growth as well!!!!
Some of that will depend on nutrient control and export, yes!
This LED promotion isn't cool!! He is totally mistaken going that route! We all know that a 6500K bulb or sunlight will give the APPEARANCE of a brownish (actually yellowish) color by reflection of that spectrum from the source to our eyes. The colors of the corals, meaning their natural pigments, will still be there! Go diving and observe a piece of coral in very shallow water. If it is pink, it is PINK! The green is GREEN!! Normally their colors are even brighter than when you find the same species in deeper waters.
If you choose a metal halide like the Radium with the proper ballast, for example, you will have AMAZING colors and growth. Much better than ANY LED available in the market IMHO! Are you kidding me!? There is an unfortunate misleading in regards to this topic that is going around like a dragon. IMHO LEDs are mostly a hype that many of the relatively new aquarists are grabbing as the best artificial light source available today, but they don't really know any better nor have experiences for comparison. Sad to see Mr. Paletta saying all that, because he knows better!! Brown corals under halides? Not truth, Sr.! Not if you offer the correct intensity and spectrum. The fact that the blue diodes reflect on the corals differently than some of the halide bulbs doesn't mean they are any healthier either. Pure blue reflection to refresh your "blues" taste. The proof of that is in many videos. Not to mention T5s which are one of the best artificial light sources for coloration with tremendous ability for growth and anatomy distribution in shallow reef tanks.
Best of all? Halides/T5s.

Remember WWC systems with halides???? Exceptional colors and amazing growth!!! Much better than with the Radions they are under now IMHO. How is the growth after all the years under Radions?
By the way... I believe "Radion" is a word after one of the very best halides for reef tanks: Radium.
Definitely not a substitution!!
What about Dr. Sanjay's halides?? Were they brown under his halides??? Does anyone agree that he had much better colors and growth with those halides??

Is this video about promoting LEDs and disproving halides? What is this? A club? The information isn't accurate to say the least, with all the respect. I appreciate Mr. Paletta a lot and have been reading his articles for many years since the 90's. Sad to hear such observations. I still appreciate Mr. Paletta for sharing his time passing his tips to all of us.

I would hope there was a miscommunication in the video, although it sounds clear the way he did.
I choose to respect all people who prefers LEDs over halides, T5s or whatever. I just don't think it's fair when companies and people try to paint a bad image of the halides and T5s, saying their LEDs are better. That has been used in the past as a marketing strategy and isn't a true statement.

They have the right to say their LEDs are better, I do have my right to say what I think as well.

Brown corals? Haha!





Peace!"

Now I feel really bad there is a thread just for this, due to magnitude and repercussion!!! ;Jawdrop
I apologize also to the mods and the owner of this forum!!!!

If you wish to discuss the matter please keep your focus into the essence of the subject.
I already lost my interest in this due to so many aggressive posts referring to me as "bashing LEDs".
One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Have a nice day.

 

[A. grandis]

He is not a scientist and also makes leds.
Anyone selling things should be looked at with scepticism and taken with a grain of sat.

I’ve seen it. He lives in Hawaii so it’s all zoas Wal to Wall.
Its nice.

On further reflection, I find this whole situation quite upsetting on many levels.

I’ll not comment further.

Thanks for you input, Salty! He claims that he is publishing facts and nothing else.
Cheers.

 

[Amoo]

you do realize that all he said about MH at the point in the video why you are all worked up over was:

"What we've learned over time is we don't need to blast a small tank with 1000W of MH, we can do it with much lower levels the LEDs can provide."

That's not bashing MH, that's simply saying we don't need as much light as we used to think. That's it.

Edit he also said you don't get the brightest colors when you max out the light. He even mentioned the same thing with natural sunlight. Again NONE OF THAT is an attack on your precious MHs. This is why people get frustrated with you. There is nothing he say that makes almost anyone think it's an attack on MH, except you.

 

[Battlecorals]

I think this argument would be fairly well suited back in 2007, but today...

 

[Oshengems]

I think this argument would be fairly well suited back in 2007, but today...

My point exactly it’s 2018! we sending people to mars soon! But we here debating if LEDs can grow corals

 

[A. grandis]

you do realize that all he said about MH at the point in the video why you are all worked up over was:

"What we've learned over time is we don't need to blast a small tank with 1000W of MH, we can do it with much lower levels the LEDs can provide."

That's not bashing MH, that's simply saying we don't need as much light as we used to think. That's it.

Edit he also said you don't get the brightest colors when you max out the light. He even mentioned the same thing with natural sunlight. Again NONE OF THAT is an attack on your precious MHs. This is why people get frustrated with you. There is nothing he say that makes almost anyone think it's an attack on MH, except you.

@10:41

 

[A. grandis]

My point exactly it’s 2018! we sending people to mars soon! But we here debating if LEDs can grow corals

I'm not. Are you?
Mr. Paletta's tank is a living proof of a great tank under LEDs.

 

[DSC reef]

@10:41

Awesome, more links. As soon as someone comes at you with factual information you can't speak for yourself. You accuse others of doing what you do on every lighting thread and can't handle that people are getting tired of it. I've never seen anyone with so much hate for a lighting source, criticize there tanks and then say I respect them. Lol. When's the last time you went to worldwide @A. grandis? Let me help you as we go often, there tanks look better now than ever.

 

[Amoo]

i watched the video @A. grandis do you mind please quoting exactly where he bashes MH in his exact words. I've already said above what I feel he said.

 

[Amoo]

you do realize that all he said about MH at the point in the video why you are all worked up over was:

"What we've learned over time is we don't need to blast a small tank with 1000W of MH, we can do it with much lower levels the LEDs can provide."

That's not bashing MH, that's simply saying we don't need as much light as we used to think. That's it.

Edit he also said you don't get the brightest colors when you max out the light. He even mentioned the same thing with natural sunlight. Again NONE OF THAT is an attack on your precious MHs. This is why people get frustrated with you. There is nothing he say that makes almost anyone think it's an attack on MH, except you.

 

[mta_morrow]

If you wish to discuss the matter please keep your focus into the essence of the subject.

If you would take your own advice, this entire thread wouldn't exist.

 

[madweazl]

The light talk starts about 10 minutes in. He (Mike) states that a 300g tank lit with 1000w halides led to excellent growth but brown coloration. He also mentions similarities to his naturally lit tank. He absolutely states that amount of light leads to brown coloration but draws no comparison between LEDs or any other type of emitter at equivalent wattage. Anything else regarding his statements are fabrication, speculation, or imagination.

 

[Amoo]

Mike directly from the Video word for word I am typing and pressing pause.:

"Lighting Varies from tank to tank and in a lot of instances we found we don't need as much light. We found over time that we are much better with nutrient management and algae management that we don't need to keep our tank blown out like we used to with MH. We've known people with 300G tanks running 1000W MHs. They thought that's what they needed on the reef to keep the reef going. We found over time that's not what you need NAD you tend not to get the brightest colors."

"You saw the sunlight tank, that started off as an SPS tank, with my thinking, okay what can be better than sunlight? As I found when you run max light you tend to get really nice brown corals, they grow like weeds but they don't look anything like these corals in this tank. So I've got to using Radions on all my tanks.

Some rambling

With the 4th generation of them I've really had success with them. I don't run my lights full bore. I run them 80-85% max intensity. Sanjay runs his at 100% intensity. I run a bluer tank, he runs a whiter tank so it varies based on what you're looking for."

There it is EXACTLY word for wword what he says in the Video. Nowhere in there does he talk bad about MH, he only speaks to over lighting corals.

 

[Amoo]

Now please note, NOWHERE did he say he couldn't have the same success with smaller MH. NOWHERE did he say LEDs are Better than MHs in ANY WAY. ALL he said was "we don't need to blow our corals out with light like we use to" THEN he said "I use Radions and these are my settings".....

Thats it. That is your "attack on MH and misinformation you're claiming." It's complete and utter garbage man. Nothing like that is said or inferred.

 

[hart24601]

I never thought I could see someone have a breakdown over hatred of LED lights. Do you have any form of psychosis grandis? I am not being a smart a## or anything, I think you might need professional help.

 

[Oshengems]

I'm not. Are you?
Mr. Paletta's tank is a living proof of a great tank under LEDs.

So why are you upset? Or feel this is misinformation that he’s providing?

 

[Jeff Hall]

I like light

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

@10:41

This is literally what is said at 10:41:

As with the parameters, lighting varies from tank to tank. And in a lot of instances we probably don't need quite as much light. We found over time as we're much better with nutrient management and algae and everything else that we don't need to keep our tanks blown out with like we used to with metal halides.

As we were discussing we've known people with 300 gallon tanks running thousand watt metal halides on them because they thought that's what they needed on the reef to keep the reef going. We found over time that's not what we need and you tend not to get the brightest colors.

You saw the sunlight tank, we'll probably take a look at it in a minute. That originally was started off as an SPS tank with my thinking of "okay, what could be better than sunlight?" Well, as I found when you run max light, you tend to get really nice brown corals. They grow like weeds, but they don't look anything like these corals in this tank.

Mike starts by saying that we used to think we needed much more light than we do (thousand watt halides). We've since figured out that we don't need to blast our reefs with that much light. He then goes on to say that three hundred gallon tanks with thousand watt halides tend not to get the brightest colors. He then goes on to say his sunlight tank grows corals really quickly, but they look sort of brown and they don't look as nice as his LED tank.

Unless you linked to the wrong part of the video, most of the statements you made are not true.

You claimed that he said corals were made brown by metal halides. This is not true: he claims that the corals in his sunlit tank were brown.

You claim that Mike promoted LEDs. This is not true: he said that LEDs grow corals better than his sunlit tank. I know of almost no reefers that grow corals with sun, so if this is a conspiracy by LED makers to get sales, it's a pretty lousy promotion.

You also claimed that Mike disparaged MH while he was promoting LEDs. This also is untrue: the only mention he makes of MH is that we don't need thousand watt metal halides over our tanks.

You claim that Mike says you don't get bright colors with halides. This is also untrue: he says that when you blast tanks with too much light, like thousand watt halides over a 300 gallon tank, you tend not to get the brightest colors. He never says that MH can't or don't produce good colors. He says if you use them wrong or use too much, you won't get good colors. But this is true with literally every reef light out there.

Please share the part of the video where he disparages halides or promotes LEDs. The part you shared is just him talking about how thousand watt halides are excessive, and how the sun isn't great at growing corals in reef aquaria.