Debating the use of LED's in Mike Paletta's new tank

Bouncingsoul39

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Oh good lord another one of these LED attacks?


On the other hand I gotta give him credit for being passionate, attacking something as silly as lighting over and over and over and over again even in the same threads. On the other hand it makes reef2reef a worse place to come for info and post imo.

This thread is full of ad-hominem attacks and comments like this are completely missing Grandis' point. I've yet to read one thoughtful comment in discussion of his actual point or anything to further the discussion. I find it unfortunate in this hobby that those that are viewed as "experts" writing articles and making videos are not held to any sort of ethical standards by those within the hobby and those whose platforms the articles and videos are featured in. Reminds me of BRS videos on the Chinese Black Box LEDs and their videos on Live Rock. Highly biased, not fact based etc. Yet people take it as gospel and we are not allowed to question or challenge, or even question those making the dubious claims. The whole mess just makes me want to tune out the internet portion of the hobby completely and long for the days where their were filters and checks in place in the form of Publishers making sure that only high quality information by TRUE experts in their field actually made it into the public realm because their sales and reputations depended on it. Makes me really miss Coral Magazine and TFH Magazine, and honest to goodness BOOKS! Online, there is no accountability and nothing matters anymore. Words don't mean anything, meanings don't mean anything. Plus people act as if there isn't already twenty years old database of established knowledge and common proven practices for this hobby since now Reef Central is dead and this forum has taken over as the mainstream of the hobby. It's no wonder the hobby is in the state it is in.
To Grandis's point, it's foolish and dangerous in our hobby to act as if the old tech doesn't exist any longer, the old tech is harmful or has more negatives, while ignoring the positives of it and also ignoring the negatives of the thing you are promoting, in this case it is LEDS. LED is still a changing, evolving technology. Do people realize that every time they buy an Ecotech LED that they are paying to Beta test an LED product and pay for Ecotech's R&D costs? It seems like people don't realize this or care about it, just eager to jump on the hype train for whatever is the hot trend.
On the other hand you have T5 high output and Metal Halide which are established proven technologies that have not changed and will not change. Paletta's recent articles and videos, along with Bulk Reef Supplies, are guilty of this. There is a BRS video where they proclaim that a Metal Halide Fixture w/T5 built in is the Gold Standard for lighting in the hobby. Is that no longer the case because it has been replaced by LED? No. LED has its pros and cons and Halide/T5 has its pros and cons. I give BRS a pass on this because they are a business purely out to make a profit. Paletta though, he doesn't get a pass.
His recent article and videos are biased and are not presenting ALL of the facts and a balanced view point of successful reef keeping equipment and techniques. For example, LEDs are not simple, using LEDs is not "KISS". They require programming, they have to have a set intensity level, blah blah. It's not a simple lighting tech to use for reefing. Both T5 and Halide IS MORE SIMPLE. Plus his use of circulation pumps. Having a mix of Tunze and Eco tech all over the tank IS NOT SIMPLE, nor KISS. Having a closed loop system would actually be much more simple and far less maintenance.

I want to make clear that I am not attacking Mike Paletta's integrity as a person here. I think he's a good dude and am actually glad that someone is taking the time to create content for the hobby who has some experience. But I am calling out the integrity of what he has written as well as it's quality. I question his relationship to vendors/manufacturers because I feel that it is important to know in this circumstance. I am also questioning the claims in the article and the video as Grandis is. We do this because we know better from real world experience in the hobby.
 

DSC reef

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This thread is full of ad-hominem attacks and comments like this are completely missing Grandis' point. I've yet to read one thoughtful comment in discussion of his actual point or anything to further the discussion. I find it unfortunate in this hobby that those that are viewed as "experts" writing articles and making videos are not held to any sort of ethical standards by those within the hobby and those whose platforms the articles and videos are featured in. Reminds me of BRS videos on the Chinese Black Box LEDs and their videos on Live Rock. Highly biased, not fact based etc. Yet people take it as gospel and we are not allowed to question or challenge, or even question those making the dubious claims. The whole mess just makes me want to tune out the internet portion of the hobby completely and long for the days where their were filters and checks in place in the form of Publishers making sure that only high quality information by TRUE experts in their field actually made it into the public realm because their sales and reputations depended on it. Makes me really miss Coral Magazine and TFH Magazine, and honest to goodness BOOKS! Online, there is no accountability and nothing matters anymore. Words don't mean anything, meanings don't mean anything. Plus people act as if there isn't already twenty years old database of established knowledge and common proven practices for this hobby since now Reef Central is dead and this forum has taken over as the mainstream of the hobby. It's no wonder the hobby is in the state it is in.
To Grandis's point, it's foolish and dangerous in our hobby to act as if the old tech doesn't exist any longer, the old tech is harmful or has more negatives, while ignoring the positives of it and also ignoring the negatives of the thing you are promoting, in this case it is LEDS. LED is still a changing, evolving technology. Do people realize that every time they buy an Ecotech LED that they are paying to Beta test an LED product and pay for Ecotech's R&D costs? It seems like people don't realize this or care about it, just eager to jump on the hype train for whatever is the hot trend.
On the other hand you have T5 high output and Metal Halide which are established proven technologies that have not changed and will not change. Paletta's recent articles and videos, along with Bulk Reef Supplies, are guilty of this. There is a BRS video where they proclaim that a Metal Halide Fixture w/T5 built in is the Gold Standard for lighting in the hobby. Is that no longer the case because it has been replaced by LED? No. LED has its pros and cons and Halide/T5 has its pros and cons. I give BRS a pass on this because they are a business purely out to make a profit. Paletta though, he doesn't get a pass.
His recent article and videos are biased and are not presenting ALL of the facts and a balanced view point of successful reef keeping equipment and techniques. For example, LEDs are not simple, using LEDs is not "KISS". They require programming, they have to have a set intensity level, blah blah. It's not a simple lighting tech to use for reefing. Both T5 and Halide IS MORE SIMPLE. Plus his use of circulation pumps. Having a mix of Tunze and Eco tech all over the tank IS NOT SIMPLE, nor KISS. Having a closed loop system would actually be much more simple and far less maintenance.

I want to make clear that I am not attacking Mike Paletta's integrity as a person here. I think he's a good dude and am actually glad that someone is taking the time to create content for the hobby who has some experience. But I am calling out the integrity of what he has written as well as it's quality. I question his relationship to vendors/manufacturers because I feel that it is important to know in this circumstance. I am also questioning the claims in the article and the video as Grandis is. We do this because we know better from real world experience in the hobby.
Can you answer the questions that were asked at grandis since now mike paletta has an agenda. Lol, unbelievable.
 

madweazl

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This thread is full of ad-hominem attacks and comments like this are completely missing Grandis' point. I've yet to read one thoughtful comment in discussion of his actual point or anything to further the discussion. I find it unfortunate in this hobby that those that are viewed as "experts" writing articles and making videos are not held to any sort of ethical standards by those within the hobby and those whose platforms the articles and videos are featured in. Reminds me of BRS videos on the Chinese Black Box LEDs and their videos on Live Rock. Highly biased, not fact based etc. Yet people take it as gospel and we are not allowed to question or challenge, or even question those making the dubious claims. The whole mess just makes me want to tune out the internet portion of the hobby completely and long for the days where their were filters and checks in place in the form of Publishers making sure that only high quality information by TRUE experts in their field actually made it into the public realm because their sales and reputations depended on it. Makes me really miss Coral Magazine and TFH Magazine, and honest to goodness BOOKS! Online, there is no accountability and nothing matters anymore. Words don't mean anything, meanings don't mean anything. Plus people act as if there isn't already twenty years old database of established knowledge and common proven practices for this hobby since now Reef Central is dead and this forum has taken over as the mainstream of the hobby. It's no wonder the hobby is in the state it is in.
To Grandis's point, it's foolish and dangerous in our hobby to act as if the old tech doesn't exist any longer, the old tech is harmful or has more negatives, while ignoring the positives of it and also ignoring the negatives of the thing you are promoting, in this case it is LEDS. LED is still a changing, evolving technology. Do people realize that every time they buy an Ecotech LED that they are paying to Beta test an LED product and pay for Ecotech's R&D costs? It seems like people don't realize this or care about it, just eager to jump on the hype train for whatever is the hot trend.
On the other hand you have T5 high output and Metal Halide which are established proven technologies that have not changed and will not change. Paletta's recent articles and videos, along with Bulk Reef Supplies, are guilty of this. There is a BRS video where they proclaim that a Metal Halide Fixture w/T5 built in is the Gold Standard for lighting in the hobby. Is that no longer the case because it has been replaced by LED? No. LED has its pros and cons and Halide/T5 has its pros and cons. I give BRS a pass on this because they are a business purely out to make a profit. Paletta though, he doesn't get a pass.
His recent article and videos are biased and are not presenting ALL of the facts and a balanced view point of successful reef keeping equipment and techniques. For example, LEDs are not simple, using LEDs is not "KISS". They require programming, they have to have a set intensity level, blah blah. It's not a simple lighting tech to use for reefing. Both T5 and Halide IS MORE SIMPLE. Plus his use of circulation pumps. Having a mix of Tunze and Eco tech all over the tank IS NOT SIMPLE, nor KISS. Having a closed loop system would actually be much more simple and far less maintenance.

I want to make clear that I am not attacking Mike Paletta's integrity as a person here. I think he's a good dude and am actually glad that someone is taking the time to create content for the hobby who has some experience. But I am calling out the integrity of what he has written as well as it's quality. I question his relationship to vendors/manufacturers because I feel that it is important to know in this circumstance. I am also questioning the claims in the article and the video as Grandis is. We do this because we know better from real world experience in the hobby.

Which article and video are you referring too? The one in the most recent post doesn't leave much to question unless you haven't watched it. I don't disagree with the point you're trying to make, just that this video doesn't remotely address the situation that everyone is discussing.
 

Shep

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No one is acting like the old types of lights dont exist or are bad but EVERY time someone says LEDs are good lights, this guys flips his lid and goes on a rant against LEDs
 

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Saying that WWC’s 900g tank is not that amazing because they use LEDs and it’s at 80 or 90% of what it could be is blasphemy! These allegations will not hold in a court of law too much sauce



7E9617F4-D953-4D26-968A-E47279664FF6.jpeg
 

rockskimmerflow

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For example, LEDs are not simple, using LEDs is not "KISS". They require programming, they have to have a set intensity level, blah blah. It's not a simple lighting tech to use for reefing. Both T5 and Halide IS MORE SIMPLE. Plus his use of circulation pumps. Having a mix of Tunze and Eco tech all over the tank IS NOT SIMPLE, nor KISS. Having a closed loop system would actually be much more simple and far less maintenance.

This.... I like Mike and his enthusiasm for the hobby but have often found myself frustrated with his grandiose 'goals' and 'visions' for one of the endless new tanks he seems to setup only to have those initially stated goals blatantly contradicted by his choices during the course of the build. I mean no hate of course, the guy is totally entitled to to what he wishes with his tanks, and more power to him for having the funds and interest to set up so many new tanks year over year. I just don't find any of his statements regarding tank simplicity or when he seems to find a totally new 'moustrap' for making tank maintenance more efficient to hold much water (pardon the pun). Just look at the photos of his prior setups... clutter, wire tangled messes, endless gadgets.... he can't help it, he's an eccentric hobbyist and I love him for that! We need more totally into it eccentric ppl in the hobby keeping the energy in it. But Mike and KISS principles are like oil and water hahah.
 
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A. grandis

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Saying that WWC’s 900g tank is not that amazing because they use LEDs is plain so it’s at 80 or 90% of what it could be is blasphemy!
That's not what we are talking about here, man.
Please open a thread about that if you would like to discuss such.
Thanks.
 

mta_morrow

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That's not what we are talking about here, man.
Please open a thread about that if you would like to discuss such.
Thanks.

Did you open this thread? Or did you jump into someone else’s and get this started?

Me, I could care less about lighting discussions.

I did care about following Palatta’s build.
 
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A. grandis

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I feel i have been polite to you @A. grandis would you mind responding to what I have posted?
Yes, I see the context of that video, as well as other videos from AmericanChannel to diminish the halides big time.
I see your point and that is also in the video. The context is what makes it pop.
I apreciate your input and respect, Amoo! Thank you.
 

mitch91175

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I hate LEDs soooooo much. I hate them sooo much that I just had to get me some LEDs. Why, because who cares really? I run both LED/T5 and am happy with that choice. I used to run halides back in the day, but got tired of also running a chiller too. If I didn't have to deal with the heat and amount of evaporation then I would likely run halides, but I do not think those issues will be resolved soon and I don't have a fish room ATM, so LED/T5 it is. Maybe one day when I have a dedicated fish room, I look at halides again.
 
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A. grandis

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Did you open this thread? Or did you jump into someone else’s and get this started?

Me, I could care less about lighting discussions.

I did care about following Palatta’s build.
I'm sorry. Please feel free to leave, if you wish.
With all the respect, if you careless about lighting discussion... why are you here, then?
 

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I don't think we need to get so off topic that we're meme-ing people, so we should probably cut some of that out.

@A. grandis if you can see my point in this video and see what was said word for word, where is the problem then? What context are you talking about? He talks about too much lighting full blast in the past with MH, then moves on to talking about now and he uses LEDs. I see no attack there.
 

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