Debating the use of LED's in Mike Paletta's new tank

[Potatohead]

At the end of the day, in this hobby, nobody really knows anything, even the experts. It is all just theory and mostly based on experience through trial and error. There is some science involved in some areas but very little is proven. This is why you see two masters, like Mike and Sanjay for example, who have known each other for decades but still have differing opinions on a bunch of stuff, such as Mike treating detritus like cancer and Sanjay has 2" of junk in his sump. They don't even run similar alkalinity levels. So when you hear one of them changing their mind over time, it's not a surprise.

It's all just opinion.

 

[DSC reef]

I have to admit, my best tank was lit by metal halides. Certainly no denying that MH works very well!

Love metal halide, just cant do the chiller and heat. Looking forward to the new kessils.

 

[A. grandis]

This is literally what is said at 10:41:


Mike starts by saying that we used to think we needed much more light than we do (thousand watt halides). We've since figured out that we don't need to blast our reefs with that much light. He then goes on to say that three hundred gallon tanks with thousand watt halides tend not to get the brightest colors. He then goes on to say his sunlight tank grows corals really quickly, but they look sort of brown and they don't look as nice as his LED tank.

Unless you linked to the wrong part of the video, most of the statements you made are not true.

You claimed that he said corals were made brown by metal halides. This is not true: he claims that the corals in his sunlit tank were brown.

You claim that Mike promoted LEDs. This is not true: he said that LEDs grow corals better than his sunlit tank. I know of almost no reefers that grow corals with sun, so if this is a conspiracy by LED makers to get sales, it's a pretty lousy promotion.

You also claimed that Mike disparaged MH while he was promoting LEDs. This also is untrue: the only mention he makes of MH is that we don't need thousand watt metal halides over our tanks.

You claim that Mike says you don't get bright colors with halides. This is also untrue: he says that when you blast tanks with too much light, like thousand watt halides over a 300 gallon tank, you tend not to get the brightest colors. He never says that MH can't or don't produce good colors. He says if you use them wrong or use too much, you won't get good colors. But this is true with literally every reef light out there.

Please share the part of the video where he disparages halides or promotes LEDs. The part you shared is just him talking about how thousand watt halides are excessive, and how the sun isn't great at growing corals in reef aquaria.

He talked about 1000W halides and that the corals are brown under bright light.
Neither 1oooW halides nor sunlight will turn corals brown.
Please!

 

[A. grandis]

So why are you upset? Or feel this is misinformation that he’s providing?

It' about the context and the preaching. Please read the original post to understand.
Watch his videos.
I guess people here aren't reading and jumping to conclusions.

 

[gcarroll]

Love metal halide, just cant do the chiller and heat. Looking forward to the new kessils.

And you certainly can make that choice. Kessils grow coral too. Some might say not as good.

 

[Amoo]

At the end of the day, in this hobby, nobody really knows anything, even the experts. It is all just theory and mostly based on experience through trial and error. There is some science involved in some areas but very little is proven. This is why you see two masters, like Mike and Sanjay for example, who have known each other for decades but still have differing opinions on a bunch of stuff, such as Mike treating detritus like cancer and Sanjay has 2" of junk in his sump. They don't even run similar alkalinity levels.

It's all just opinion.

IMO all that shows is there is more then one way to skin a cat. I think that's the point people are trying to get across. You can have success in this hobby operating your tank completely different then the guy next door. Different parameters, different imports and exports, different lights...etc.

Nobody is wrong. There just isn't one way to do things. The ONLY thing everybody will agree on is if you're going to do it one way do it with stability.

That's the crux of the feedback people are trying to get across to our friend grandis here. Everytime somebody talks about LEDs it is not a slight at MH. It doesn't matter if it's the guy with the nicest tank in the world who has been running MH for 4900 years. Just because he one day decides to swap to LED doesn't mean you need to come tear the house down.

 

[A. grandis]

Feel free to take your own advice...again!

Ok, enough!
I'm ignoring you, man.
Sorry.

 

[Jeff Hall]

I use torches to light my reef tank. It's the natural way.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

He talked about 1000W halides and that the corals are brown under bright light.
Neither 1oooW halides nor sunlight will turn corals brown.
Please!

Yes, he talks about them both, but he never says (as you originally claimed) that halides make corals brown. This is exactly what he said:

As we were discussing we've known people with 300 gallon tanks running thousand watt metal halides on them because they thought that's what they needed on the reef to keep the reef going. We found over time that's not what we need and you tend not to get the brightest colors.

The only thing he says is that too much light can reduce the coloration in corals. He never says that halides make corals brown, which you claimed that he did.

If you are refuting his assertion that lighting aquariums with sunlight makes corals brown, that's a different story. It's also one you'll have a hard time arguing. If Mike grew corals in a sunlit tank and claims that it made his corals brown, you can't disagree that it happened (unless you're calling him a liar). You might not think it was the sunlight, but again, that's a different story.

I still would very much like to see the part in the video where Mike disparaged halides and promoted LEDs. I would like to see the part where Mike flamed halides. I would like to see the part where Mike is trying to paint a bad image of halides and is promoting LEDs and T5s. If Mike really did say the things that you claim, I think the hobby should know. So please, share the video where he says the things you claim he has.

 

[DSC reef]

Ok, enough!
I'm ignoring you, man.
Sorry.

No need to apologize

 

[gcarroll]

He talked about 1000W halides and that the corals are brown under bright light.
Neither 1oooW halides nor sunlight will turn corals brown.
Please!

I agree with you 100% but really, it also depends on the color of the light output. So although he said that, his perception of color may have been skewed due to spectral output of the MH or sunlight in question. So what I am saying it it really depends on his context based on his particular experience.

 

[Amoo]

Except for the fact there is a point in the video where he goes on to talk about how he feels Sanjay's tank looks more washed out and less colorful, but has been over at night and seen them and they fluoresce and look every bit as good as his.

Yes he actually said with Sanjay's settings he felt things look more washed out until he saw them under different settings.

Is he attacking Sanjay's settings? LED? Sanjay? How about nobody, just like he's not attacking MH in this video.

 

[ReefInskeep]

So... This thread will be a repeat of dozens of others.

A. Metal halides work well, but have disadvantages.
B. T5 works well, but have disadvantages.
C. LEDs work well, but have disadvantages.

Each can work well, depending on usage & circumstances.

What’s the point of this? The only thing I can see clearly is that it’s full of frustration, resentment & personalities, though one in particular seems to pop up and ignite this stuff much more often. I’m certainly tired of seeing this.

This helps who? What new conclusions will be drawn? How does this resolve anything, let alone change items A-C above? So...

Know what would really stop this cycle? Ignoring it. Ignore the occasional nutty comment. At most, say, “We disagree, but whatever,” and move on. Either that, or moderators ban somebody after starting 50 arguements.

 

[alton]

My 300 with 3 x 250w MH and 2 x 6' BML leds. In the summer the MH only ran 3 hours a day with leds 8. Winter everything changed to 8 hours and no heater.

When I down graded to my 180 I wanted a clean looking tank getting rid of the MH pendants and staying with BML's mounted directly on top of the tank

Corals did fine, and electricity savings? Zero. I run my LED's longer in the summer, and now have a heater in the tank in the winter. Corals do fine with both types of lighting, users choice.

 

[4FordFamily]

Do those extra bars happen to be 48” actinics?

I have a 60” actinic and two 60” 50/50

 

[4FordFamily]

This whole thread is in poor taste and should be deleted. Bullying a bully is still bullying, an activity I am sure Reef2reef frowns upon. FWIW I am not defending either of the positions in this thread, only pointing out I find the spirit of the thread and it’s tone to be distasteful.

I don’t disagree with you, but I will say (not as a representative of R2R for this neat comment):

There’s only one way to effectively handle a bully. Unrelated perhaps, but a point I’ll make singly.

You’re correct, however.

 

[TheHarold]

That's not what we are talking about here, man.
Please open a thread about that if you would like to discuss such.
Thanks.

I think the success of other people with LEDs is probably relevant in a thread discussing how terrible LEDs are. So I will post one of my favorite tanks.


I think everyone should post theirs!!!

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Wow this is crazy. LED works period its been proven time and again that good LED fixtures have everything it takes to grow even sps. The color they bring out in corals is crazy and is arguably the best lighting for that purpose. Now are LED equal to MH, no not yet. The coverage, intensity and depth penetration of MH is the best considering that MH is a single point light source and LED and T5 are multiple point. LED also will not grow most sps quite as fast as MH does and many people many not even see a different in growth at all. I am a long time MH user but I know what LED can do and have see it on many tanks even dating back to the PFO Solara LED. I strongly considered LED for my tank when I set it up a few months ago, ended up with MH again. If you want to go wirh LED lighting get a know quality fixture and you will be happy. If you want to go with MH then fine solid choice. Dont hate either way.

 

[User1]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I will ask everyone here that is actively posting. Have you ever scuba dived any coral reefs of any depth - surface to 114 feet recreational depth(s)? They do not look like ours let alone like someone opened a bag of skittles and poured them into our tank. Just throwing it out there from an active scuba divers point of view. I tend to see lighting has one piece of the system with several options on the table. To include those running natural light via window, solar tubes, hybrid, or outdoor tanks. Several have stated it already in that there are multiple ways to skin this cat with success (please don't call PETA - no furry friends have been nor will be skinned...just a figure of speech).

 

[reeferfoxx]

I think of LEDs as little bitty halides.