Debating the use of LED's in Mike Paletta's new tank

[maroun.c]

I do run multiple tanks one with MH and T5s which was converted to MH and Radions and 4 tanks with LED Only.
My tanks with LED have different LEDs on them, a couple with only very old Razors which are by current standards not that good lights.guess what MHs work and that was proven years back. Same for MH and T5. Now MH and LEDs is an absolute pleasure, LEDs work even old non full spectrum ones Fwiw if u know what ur doing.
I don't see Mike Paletta bashing MH he just decided to try something new which is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. Even if he came back to say LEDs are better or worse in his opinion Im sure he would have the needed justifications for whatever he states and it's up to reefers to accept or reject his statements and it remains a personal choice on what to buy for our tanks. I don't see 100% of reefers switching to Radions simply cause Wwc or Sanjay uses them.
What ticks me off is comments against Mike Paletta a leading authority in this hobby with years of experience and contributions in the hobby. So what if he tries LEDs and so what if he finds them better it remains his personal opinion and am sure he'd have the justifications for his comments in place.
I would doubt a person like him would come out and say Halides don't work as he's the perfect proof of the opposite. I am happy he's trying Leds so it least 2-3 get a scientific comparison on few years.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I do run multiple tanks one with MH and T5s which was converted to MH and Radions and 4 tanks with LED Only.
My tanks with LED have different LEDs on them, a couple with only very old Razors which are by current standards not that good lights.guess what MHs work and that was proven years back. Same for MH and T5. Now MH and LEDs is an absolute pleasure, LEDs work even old non full spectrum ones Fwiw if u know what ur doing.
I don't see Mike Paletta bashing MH he just decided to try something new which is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. Even if he came back to say LEDs are better or worse in his opinion Im sure he would have the needed justifications for whatever he states and it's up to reefers to accept or reject his statements and it remains a personal choice on what to buy for our tanks. I don't see 100% of reefers switching to Radions simply cause Wwc or Sanjay uses them.
What ticks me off is comments against Mike Paletta a leading authority in this hobby with years of experience and contributions in the hobby. So what if he tries LEDs and so what if he finds them better it remains his personal opinion and am sure he'd have the justifications for his comments in place.
I would doubt a person like him would come out and say Halides don't work as he's the perfect proof of the opposite. I am happy he's trying Leds so it least 2-3 get a scientific comparison on few years.

Lighting, pumps, Tank type and size, and types of corals, etc are a matter of choice and I agree on Mike's experience and his tanks/specimens shows his decision making expertise !~
It is in fact true that MH has always been a great producer of lighting for coral especially SPS and with todays, new innovations (As I have too gone to LED using AP700s, Radion AND SB Reef) commend him in trying the many GREAT choices available to compare to MH which if LED is proven to him will reduce both heat and electrical costs associated with operating MH units. He is exploring the use of MH which we all have or will and that is his right.
I hope one day I have the display he has whether it is MH, LED, incandescent or CFL.

 

[ca1ore]

Is this really an actual debate anymore? Read the original post in this thread, and while borderline incoherent, I take it to be extolling the benefits of MH. Metal halide lights have been in the hobby for close to 30 years; the appearance of reef aquarium purposed bulbs in the 1990s made it the best light for hard corals - FACT, metal halides can grow corals. LED lights have been in the hobby for less time, but the appearance of full spectrum fixtures made them a credible light for hard corals - FACT, LED can grow corals. There are fantastic tanks lit by MH, and fantastic tanks lit by LED. I fail to see the point of arguing that which is intuitively obvious. If you prefer one over the other, pick that one.

 

[dantimdad]

Is this really an actual debate anymore? Read the original post in this thread, and while borderline incoherent, I take it to be extolling the benefits of MH. Metal halide lights have been in the hobby for close to 30 years; the appearance of reef aquarium purposed bulbs in the 1990s made it the best light for hard corals - FACT, metal halides can grow corals. LED lights have been in the hobby for less time, but the appearance of full spectrum fixtures made them a credible light for hard corals - FACT, LED can grow corals. There are fantastic tanks lit by MH, and fantastic tanks lit by LED. I fail to see the point of arguing that which is intuitively obvious. If you prefer one over the other, pick that one.

You hit the nail on the head!

I have never understood arguing over what product/method is better. If it works for you, then do it! Leave everyone else alone unless they specifically ask.

Sorry, old man rant.

 

[hart24601]

And it’s not like any one light is perfect. Shading has been a problem long as people have been keeping sps. Many old threads out there like this one from early 2005.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Grandis I am with you. Mike has contradicted himself in the newer video. I am not going to post quotes or anything but your last post said it all.
This is and was not a led debate guys. But it looks to me as if the led users turned it into one... The topic was Mike contradicting himself while trying to give us his reason for using LEDs. I noticed this after watching these two videos a while ago.

The main point, too much light does NOT make brown coral. In fact he said it perfectly that these bigger, lower Kelvin bulbs do better at growing AND coloring the more difficult corals that come from the reef crest like monticulosa, humilus and abros. They also do better at making these corals look more healthy.
Now I would bet in this led tank Mike has now he is not growing these corals, I would guess he is growing oldschool pieces that are easier as well as "new" corals like the tenuis craze pieces that are so popular now, especially under led. Because certain corals need certain types of light...

Also I would bet that Mike would reword or add on to some of the statements that led to this post if he had time to go into complete details in the videos, because there is more to it than, too much light makes corals brown. Also more to it than using less light and more blue LEDs colors coral better. But seems like these points and topics that were intended to be talked about in this thread are mute with this crowd. Which is what makes ME sick because these are topics that interest me, especially when experienced old school guys are chipping in for a change.

Also I saw Adam from BC chip in for a second. I bet his old blue humilus looked better when he had halides. I doubt LEDs will get that piece to where it was back then.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

And it’s not like any one light is perfect. Shading has been a problem long as people have been keeping sps. Many old threads out there like this one from early 2005.

I don't think the perfect light is the topic here, but yeah when people use the wrong amount of bulbs over the wrong tank they will get shading. Like your example from 2005, a three foot tank and one halide bulb will equal shading at some point.

 

[DSC reef]

Grandis I am with you. Mike has contradicted himself in the newer video. I am not going to post quotes or anything but your last post said it all.
This is and was not a led debate guys. But it looks to me as if the led users turned it into one... The topic was Mike contradicting himself while trying to give us his reason for using LEDs. I noticed this after watching these two videos a while ago.

The main point, too much light does NOT make brown coral. In fact he said it perfectly that these bigger, lower Kelvin bulbs do better at growing AND coloring the more difficult corals that come from the reef crest like monticulosa, humilus and abros. They also do better at making these corals look more healthy.
Now I would bet in this led tank Mike has now he is not growing these corals, I would guess he is growing oldschool pieces that are easier as well as "new" corals like the tenuis craze pieces that are so popular now, especially under led. Because certain corals need certain types of light...

Also I would bet that Mike would reword or add on to some of the statements that led to this post if he had time to go into complete details in the videos, because there is more to it than, too much light makes corals brown. Also more to it than using less light and more blue LEDs colors coral better. But seems like these points and topics that were intended to be talked about in this thread are mute with this crowd. Which is what makes ME sick because these are topics that interest me, especially when experienced old school guys are chipping in for a change.

Also I saw Adam from BC chip in for a second. I bet his old blue humilus looked better when he had halides. I doubt LEDs will get that piece to where it was back then.

Oh boy.......;Yawn;Dead;Facepalm

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Sorry to not jump on your wagon. Please feel free to contribute to the topic and debate what I said if your really putting your hand to your face.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

You used more emojis than words...

 

[DSC reef]

Sorry to not jump on your wagon. Please feel free to contribute to the topic and debate what I said if your really putting your hand to your face.

This horse has been beaten to death, Have fun.

 

[ca1ore]

And it’s not like any one light is perfect. Shading has been a problem long as people have been keeping sps.

Sure, shading is a problem with any point source light. MH, which is a point source, mostly solved the problem with reflectors. LED solved it with panel designs. Ironically, many of the newer LED offerings are skewing to point source - kessil, Radion ..... Diffusers help, but don’t solve the problem. I’ve long thought it would be interesting to have a LED that emits upwards into a large reflector.

 

[hart24601]

Sure, shading is a problem with any point source light. MH, which is a point source, mostly solved the problem with reflectors. LED solved it with panel designs. Ironically, many of the newer LED offerings are skewing to point source - kessil, Radion ..... Diffusers help, but don’t solve the problem. I’ve long thought it would be interesting to have a LED that emits upwards into a large reflector.

Great mind think alike. Post of mine from nanoreef in 2013 before r2r was my home.

 

[davocean]

Sure, shading is a problem with any point source light. MH, which is a point source, mostly solved the problem with reflectors. LED solved it with panel designs. Ironically, many of the newer LED offerings are skewing to point source - kessil, Radion ..... Diffusers help, but don’t solve the problem. I’ve long thought it would be interesting to have a LED that emits upwards into a large reflector.

I did some work for a company years ago that was discussing this very idea, LEDs pointing up and reflected, but that was about 8 years ago maybe, nothing ever came from it from them to my knowledge, but it does sound like a good idea.

I'm w/ the all types of lighting can work group, I've had fairly successful tanks under LED, T5, MH, heck even power compacts from back in the day.
They all seem to have their trade offs.

 

[ca1ore]

I suspect the reef LED companies have not done it because of aesthetics. Movement to small, sleeker lights seems the trend. Kind of like TVs being thinner and thinner, but lousy sound because no room for decent speakers.

 

[davocean]

I suspect the reef LED companies have not done it because of aesthetics. Movement to small, sleeker lights seems the trend. Kind of like TVs being thinner and thinner, but lousy sound because no room for decent speakers.

I agree, and add the heat element which affects them and the condensed electronics which can be problematic.
Personally, if someone gave me something like an LED powered w/ lumenarc type reflectors and efficient and not adding heat I'd be all over it, but that's easy for me to say having a canopy to hide them, kinda does blow that sleek sexy rimless look.

I remember when we only really looked at the tank and growth, not our lighting and plumbing so much, but hey, all part of advancing I guess.