Designer or Inbred? How do you pronounce it?

[Lightspeed]

I think it is sad what we humans do because of one simple thing that was invented thousands of years ago......Money.

Yep, where there is a dollar to be made you can bet your bluegrass humans will find a way to mess with things, call it something fancy and put a exorbitant price tag on it.

Hmm designer clowns, bit like diamonds really, common, as clowns breed like flies, but with clever marketing and demand there's money in it.
Mis-bar Angels etc while rare could be seen as a genetic defect but again there is money in it.

I am not going to be a conscientious objector, seeing as though this sort of thing has been prolific in the pet trade for however long now, Bobble eyes, Betta's etc, Poodledoodle blahblahblah, even commonly accepted breeds of cats and dogs are subject to selective breeding processes and is also common place in our world today across the food industry.

But the common denominator across all these boils down to money.

Having captive bred fish, well of course their behaviors are going to differ from wild caught, then ask yourself whether you are happy having the trade take from the wild for your pleasure.
Reef systems are a "renewable resource" as is the case with nearly all mother natures abundance, but unfortunately just not seen as such owing to the number of humans placing demand from that resource and of course again the money factor.

Bottom line, Humans are bloody lazy and wont do anything to preserve our world unless there's a dollar in it.

My 2c, aplogies for my Aspiness and extrapolation of a yes and no answer.

 

[Fezbearer]

Selectively bred, then again I used to show dogs..

 

[SMSREEF]

I think it is sad what we humans do because of one simple thing that was invented thousands of years ago......Money.

Yep, where there is a dollar to be made you can bet your bluegrass humans will find a way to mess with things, call it something fancy and put a exorbitant price tag on it.

Hmm designer clowns, bit like diamonds really, common, as clowns breed like flies, but with clever marketing and demand there's money in it.
Mis-bar Angels etc while rare could be seen as a genetic defect but again there is money in it.

I am not going to be a conscientious objector, seeing as though this sort of thing has been prolific in the pet trade for however long now, Bobble eyes, Betta's etc, Poodledoodle blahblahblah, even commonly accepted breeds of cats and dogs are subject to selective breeding processes and is also common place in our world today across the food industry.

But the common denominator across all these boils down to money.

Having captive bred fish, well of course their behaviors are going to differ from wild caught, then ask yourself whether you are happy having the trade take from the wild for your pleasure.
Reef systems are a "renewable resource" as is the case with nearly all mother natures abundance, but unfortunately just not seen as such owing to the number of humans placing demand from that resource and of course again the money factor.

Bottom line, Humans are bloody lazy and wont do anything to preserve our world unless there's a dollar in it.

My 2c, aplogies for my Aspiness and extrapolation of a yes and no answer.

I just don’t agree. Look at ORA and Biota. They are doing some good work and taking some of the pressure off the natural reefs.
The fish are more expensive, but some of us will pay that rather than take one out of the reef. I think that price is justified because they are raising them for a year or more rather than taking them from the reef as an adult.

 

[Spieg]

I'm in favor of captive bred fish to help reduce the impact on wild reefs, but I think it's very important to keep the gene pool as wide as possible (don't believe its good to mate with your siblings either... LOL).

This just doesn't appeal to me (not in humans and not in livestock);

 

[Leslie Tabor]

Labradoodle creator says he regrets 'Frankenstein's monster'

The creator of the Labradoodle cross-breed has said he inadvertently unleashed a "Frankenstein('s) monster".

www.cnn.com

This says it all... we fall in love with the designer dogs but even the creator never envisioned what it would become. Not knocking doodles... I had one... he had my heart... he was a rescue. To see doodles selling for $3,000 a pop while those doodle mom's live in puppy mills is just not ok. The ensuing health issues from overbreeding is not ok.
I vote inbred - leave evolution to God and keep man out of it.

This was exactly my thought. I don't call it "designer" or "inbred"...I call it "mutt"...not in a derogatory way but that is what they are.

 

[Leslie Tabor]

I voted inbred. I never had "designer" clowns that acted normal. Not single one would host, always stayed in the water column.

This is so strange, mine are some crazy buck shot blacker ice something but they host my anemones and have their nests.

 

[salty joe]

Inbred. When I was a kid I about gagged the first time I saw a long finned zebra danio. Same thing with inbred clowns.
To each his own...

 

[John08007]

I prefer the natural, have had a pair of perculas for yrs. Curious, is there some sorta "cookbook" for these guys? Is it for example, that you breed a clarki and a percula you get one of these? And, I can only have the 2 in my tank because of aggression, would they realize a "designer" is also a clown and be aggressive to it?

 

[Reef Obsession]

Not impressed! I actually hate seeing these in the hobby. Nothing better then a classic pair.

 

[CookieRdReef]

Mine look cool, I just wish they would stop hosting my powerhead. Pretty, but inbred.

 

[TheOldSalt]

I used to work on a clownfish farm many years ago, and part of my job was culling out any mutants that didn't confirm to the proper standard.
Now the mutants are what people want.
It bugs me.

 

[karees]

Frankenfish

 

[j.falk]

It's a very simple equation. If you are a seller looking for maximum profit, it's a "designer" clownfish. If you are a buyer trying to save a buck, it's an "inbred" fish.

 

[92Miata]

Some of the early morphs are nice - but the majority now are fish that would have been culled 10 years ago - weird misbars and such.


I really just wish some more of the resources at ORA/Biota/etc could shift to breeding other things than clowns. People were breeding Centropyge 20 years ago and they're just starting to commercially offer them. I think the clown rush was a bit part in stalling everything else.

 

[Fish man]

I don't necessarily have anything against it but I personally don't find them any more attractive or desirable then the naturals. It also seems like a way to get up to get $90. for a fish that's usually $25. Same colors just rearranged. Just my opinion.

 

[FinnyGyrrl]

Wow, I love Designer Clowns SO MUCH!!! I only have 4 tanks; the dilemma is, choosing which brilliant clowns to stock. The QUALITY of captive bred clowns in the last few years has exploded!

I believe the phrase we seek is "Intentionally Bred."

Not just 2 clowns in a 5g!

There is probably more Intentional Genetic Diversity at ORA and some of the other labs than a 3-acre cube of reef in Hawaii! Lol.

Comparing my experience:
"Every" wild pattern (not related and separately purchased) were shy, nervous, not fun to watch, and I think 1 actually died of fright during a weekly water change. Let that sink in . Keeping in mind, all fishies go through same meds/qt, so I'm ruling out psychological disorders and eratic behavior/trauma from parasite discomfort. The wild patterns "did not want to host" and required 18 months of coaching and a collander, to figure out Anemone Science.

For the intentionally bred patterns, there has been in my experience, a sliding scale rule by which, the more "extreme" the pattern, the higher the quality. Way healthier, short and long term; SO MUCH MORE intelligent (could be the excellent food at quality producers!); quick to happily adapt; bonding strongly with humans; and showing more "natural" behavior straight out of the bag. Perhaps the frontline breeders are more careful to feed higher quality food rich in efa's and have fantastic management techniques and positive interaction with their fry.

One pair which I had to purchase from different vendors months apart -- due to wanting that certain look! -- both hosted within seconds of entering the display. Day one. Fell in love "at first sight" and bonded without aggression, in less than a minute. Built and guarded nests in multiple tanks. Really seem to like their people, and interact positively with tankmates. They are great fish, and swim into my collection box when I have to take them out for meds or a tank switch.

"Designer" clowns also do have a "quality" look, like someone Really Cared about the offspring of a mating, and put in a great deal of effort. The good designers I see excel the nattie's in conformation, quality of appearance ("substance"), sound physical health and good character. The breeding facilities which produced these brawny, dear, adventurous, captivating, exquisite pets "outperform nature" by controlling breeding factors. Breeders of whom I am aware have gone to extreme lengths (including, flying to Germany for non-related broodstock) to IMPROVE their genetics and diversify their farm gene pool while hammering the color pattern...

I think that because rearing fry is so demanding (I would call it impossible... without a little bit of insanity) it is inherently self-limiting and needs encouragement not additional fees. Many breeders already belong to great reef clubs and actively participate in marine preservation societies. The Fish & Wildlife Service already has policy in place for ethical industry standards including breeding and transportation of fish and prohibition of non-sanctioned release of captive-bred fish into the wild.

The development of designer species elevates public opinion of the reefing community by offering amazing alternatives to wild-collected specimens.

Can't wait to see the small, healthy, sweet-tempered tangs and reef-safe angels they whip up for us.

Sheer genius! Happy, better than "normal" pets. Please make more!!!!

 

[KrisReef]

“Was ist das?”
“Das ist mein Uberfisch. Viel gelt!”

 

[Viridis]

I'm not really sure why there's a need to split the CB —whatever— clowns from the CB "normals". I'm sure lots of the CB "normals" are also fairly inbred.... I doubt everyone breeding clowns started with wild stock, or has the ability to do genetic testing, so there's a decent chance plenty of the normals are just as inbred as the Mocha Latte Clown Puke Gladiators....
Plus Breeding "normals" is still selectively breeding for specific traits, so would that not technically make "normals" designer too?

Either way, they are both captive bred. Do some look significantly better? Yeah. But either way it gets more people in the hobby and pushes for more captive breeding of marine fish; which is a good thing.

Man-made hybrids on the other hand.... Not a fan.

 

[Leo_ian]

1) I say designer but mostly because of the severe negative connotation of "inbred" which I am not sure all of these clowns deserve as a name although I do not know much behind the scenes.

2) A license to breed fish? Honestly prob not a bad idea if most captive breeding were done by professionals for all animals as long as anyone is able to rightfully qualify and obtain the said license. There should not be a monopoly on life in any form.

In my country, hobbyists are not allowed to aquaculture corals and fish without a license, which is a huge setback for me since I want to become an aquaculturist to help restore reefs and lighten the pressure of collections on reefs.

I think we should all be allowed to aquaculture animals as long as we do it responsibly.
for example, if done responsibly i think breeding Banggai will help restore wild populations

 

[calvinstevens04]

I think if the fish is healthy than it is ok. I remember when the zombie clowns came out and they just didn’t look right. I am biased on this because I have a pair of phantom clowns. They are both very healthy and have not shown any problems. Although I don’t see any problems they are only 6 months old. I also think these specific variations should be bread in many different lines and then cross breed those lines to create a stronger and more diverse gene pool.