Desjardini Tang dying after dosing Cupramine in QT....

[willthethrill]

So my 120 has been setup for 5-6 months. Got a couple basic fish in there. My QT is all setup so I said to myself, let's definitely quarantine anything new from here on out.

2 weeks ago I went out to the LFS looking to get a cool new addition. Saw a Desjardini tang, watched it eat, it was happy, healthy looking, Bam I bought it. 100 bucks. The most I've spent on a single fish so far. But it looked so cool I didn't care.

Went into my QT, has been happy and eating like a pig. Now, this is my first time pre-treating fish in QT. before this id always acclimate and throw into display. Prazi Pro treatment went fine. He was still happy and eating well.

Now the bad part of the story....yesterday afternoon I did a 75% water change to get most of the Prazi out and to get some fresh water in since it's a QT after all. Frequent water changes are part of the game to reduce ammonia levels from rising. As per the instructions on the Cupramine bottle i did the half dose as required.

Fast forward to this morning, I went to go do the usual walk around and he was swimming in place sideways! All pale in color, stress colors i guess. In a panic I did another 75% water change to get as much Cupramine out as I could. After 10 minutes or so his regular coloration came back and I breathed a sigh of relief. Still wouldn't eat though.

Now, night time I went to go check on him and he's on the floor gasping. what the heck man...my first time going about it "the right way" and pre-treating in a QT and this happens. Did the Cupramine do this? Even at its initial half dose?

 

[Alanc425]

Did you add any water conditioners? That can kill pretty quickly when mixed with cupramine.

Half dose is pretty high even though that's what the bottle says, everyone usually recommends increasing dose over a few days.

 

[Triggreef]

I'm not sure I understand. He jumped out? Or you mean he is on the bottom gasping?

Anything else your putting in the tank? Ammonia reducing products? Testing for ammonia?

 

[willthethrill]

I'm not sure I understand. He jumped out? Or you mean he is on the bottom gasping?

Anything else your putting in the tank? Ammonia reducing products? Testing for ammonia?

I'm sorry I meant at the bottom of the tank, not the floor floor. No other products besides the Prazi pro which has been removed through a large water change before adding the Cupramine. I have an ammonia badge in the tank which I have never even seen change color because I change 50% of the water weekly in the QT. Temp is still the same, salinity too. It's my display tank water so all the parameters are pretty spot on. I did some research and apparently a lot of ppl have issues over dosing Cupramine. I tested for copper when I saw the fish doing poorly and it was at .05, Which the bottle says is the final concentration after adding more in 48 hours. I'm at .05 right off the bat even though I put the required amount of drops per gallon (labeled as half dose). It also says fish handle up to .08 but to not go over .06. So....I'm at a loss. What a bummer.

 

[willieboy240]

make sure you have lots of oxygen in the water.

 

[willthethrill]

make sure you have lots of oxygen in the water.

Yup I have a larger than required HOB filter, water falling down and I have a powerhead aimed at the surface agitating the water

 

[willieboy240]

I would take the copper out and see if he gets better. I'm sure one of the smarter guys will chime in. but until then. that's what i would do.

 

[willieboy240]

did you put amquil or prime in the water ?

 

[willthethrill]

Nothing except the Cupramine. And I did a 75% water change the very next morning so most of the medication is out.

 

[willieboy240]

liverock in the QT ?

 

[melypr1985]

I'm sorry I meant at the bottom of the tank, not the floor floor. No other products besides the Prazi pro which has been removed through a large water change before adding the Cupramine. I have an ammonia badge in the tank which I have never even seen change color because I change 50% of the water weekly in the QT. Temp is still the same, salinity too. It's my display tank water so all the parameters are pretty spot on. I did some research and apparently a lot of ppl have issues over dosing Cupramine. I tested for copper when I saw the fish doing poorly and it was at .05, Which the bottle says is the final concentration after adding more in 48 hours. I'm at .05 right off the bat even though I put the required amount of drops per gallon (labeled as half dose). It also says fish handle up to .08 but to not go over .06. So....I'm at a loss. What a bummer.

Hi! I'm so sorry for the trouble right off the bat here. Please do not let it discourage you! The problem with cuppramine is that it can be pretty darn harsh on the fish. You want to test it every day to be sure your in absolute control of the levels. The most important thing to remember is that you want to bring the levels up slowly over the course of several days. You'll add a about a quarter (or even less) the first day, then test it an hour later. The next day add a little more and test an hour later to be sure of where you are. Keep going until you're at therapeutic levels.

Your tang reacted the way it did because it was quite a shock for it to be at therapeutic levels of copper so fast. Lack of appetite is a common side effect of copper treatment anyway. Spend a couple days (without copper) getting him eating again. Then start again and raise it very slowly. He should do much better that way. I've never had a problem with desjardini tangs in copper.

One last thing. If cupramine continues to give you trouble, consider switching to copper safe which is a chelated copper and much more gentle on the fish. We switched to coppersafe at the LFS I work at and have had much better results with it over cupramine. Then there is always TTM which uses no chemicals at all to treat for ick. Just something to think about for later.

 

[Triggreef]

Yeah cupramine can be tough when you go to fast but I've never had trouble with slow adjustments to it especially not with tangs.

I prefer tank transfer method after quarantining multiple ways it just works the best for me. Follow mels advice she's pretty good.

 

[willthethrill]

Thanks for the info. It just sucks I had to learn this the hard way on a pricey fish. I don't think he's gona make it though he looks pretty bad. I'm gona check on him again in the morning but I doubt he'll make it till then. Oh well...such is the hobby.

 

[melypr1985]

Thanks for the info. It just sucks I had to learn this the hard way on a pricey fish. I don't think he's gona make it though he looks pretty bad. I'm gona check on him again in the morning but I doubt he'll make it till then. Oh well...such is the hobby.

How is he today?

 

[willthethrill]

 

[melypr1985]

he died? I'm sorry for the loss!

 

[willthethrill]

The positive in all this is atleast now I know . Would've sucked even more if I had more than one fish in there. What are the better copper tests out there?

 

[melypr1985]

What are the better copper tests out there?

Depends on the type of copper your using. For Ionic Copper like Cupramin then i tend to use Seachem's test kit. For chelated copper like CopperSafe I like API's test kit.

 

[blacktippr]

The positive in all this is atleast now I know . Would've sucked even more if I had more than one fish in there. What are the better copper tests out there?

Sometime similar happened to me, I believe maybe even mixing just a little Prazipro with Cupramine could have deadly effects.

 

[4FordFamily]

Hi! I'm so sorry for the trouble right off the bat here. Please do not let it discourage you! The problem with cuppramine is that it can be pretty darn harsh on the fish. You want to test it every day to be sure your in absolute control of the levels. The most important thing to remember is that you want to bring the levels up slowly over the course of several days. You'll add a about a quarter (or even less) the first day, then test it an hour later. The next day add a little more and test an hour later to be sure of where you are. Keep going until you're at therapeutic levels.

Your tang reacted the way it did because it was quite a shock for it to be at therapeutic levels of copper so fast. Lack of appetite is a common side effect of copper treatment anyway. Spend a couple days (without copper) getting him eating again. Then start again and raise it very slowly. He should do much better that way. I've never had a problem with desjardini tangs in copper.

One last thing. If cupramine continues to give you trouble, consider switching to copper safe which is a chelated copper and much more gentle on the fish. We switched to coppersafe at the LFS I work at and have had much better results with it over cupramine. Then there is always TTM which uses no chemicals at all to treat for ick. Just something to think about for later.

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