Desjardini Tang dying after dosing Cupramine in QT....

[Smite]

Were the fish in your DT fully QT'd before being added?

 

[Live Water]

So my 120 has been setup for 5-6 months. Got a couple basic fish in there. My QT is all setup so I said to myself, let's definitely quarantine anything new from here on out.

2 weeks ago I went out to the LFS looking to get a cool new addition. Saw a Desjardini tang, watched it eat, it was happy, healthy looking, Bam I bought it. 100 bucks. The most I've spent on a single fish so far. But it looked so cool I didn't care.

Went into my QT, has been happy and eating like a pig. Now, this is my first time pre-treating fish in QT. before this id always acclimate and throw into display. Prazi Pro treatment went fine. He was still happy and eating well.

Now the bad part of the story....yesterday afternoon I did a 75% water change to get most of the Prazi out and to get some fresh water in since it's a QT after all. Frequent water changes are part of the game to reduce ammonia levels from rising. As per the instructions on the Cupramine bottle i did the half dose as required.

Fast forward to this morning, I went to go do the usual walk around and he was swimming in place sideways! All pale in color, stress colors i guess. In a panic I did another 75% water change to get as much Cupramine out as I could. After 10 minutes or so his regular coloration came back and I breathed a sigh of relief. Still wouldn't eat though.

Now, night time I went to go check on him and he's on the floor gasping. what the heck man...my first time going about it "the right way" and pre-treating in a QT and this happens. Did the Cupramine do this? Even at its initial half dose?

I would never do a 75% water change and check your salinity it might not have been anything related to medications but I would have done two or three 50% water changes to remove all the other medication for starting the next treatment, in the future I wouldn't pretreat I would just hold it in quarantine for a month.

 

[melypr1985]

Sometime similar happened to me, I believe maybe even mixing just a little Prazipro with Cupramine could have deadly effects.

Actually you can mix these two, but you have to be careful of the occasional bacterial bloom that can happen from that. What I've learned is that you don't dose the copper and prazipro on the same day and you can usually avoid the cloudy water/bloom.

 

[willthethrill]

Were the fish in your DT fully QT'd before being added?

No the first few were added without QT

 

[Caliwagon]

Hi! I'm so sorry for the trouble right off the bat here. Please do not let it discourage you! The problem with cuppramine is that it can be pretty darn harsh on the fish. You want to test it every day to be sure your in absolute control of the levels. The most important thing to remember is that you want to bring the levels up slowly over the course of several days. You'll add a about a quarter (or even less) the first day, then test it an hour later. The next day add a little more and test an hour later to be sure of where you are. Keep going until you're at therapeutic levels.

Your tang reacted the way it did because it was quite a shock for it to be at therapeutic levels of copper so fast. Lack of appetite is a common side effect of copper treatment anyway. Spend a couple days (without copper) getting him eating again. Then start again and raise it very slowly. He should do much better that way. I've never had a problem with desjardini tangs in copper.

One last thing. If cupramine continues to give you trouble, consider switching to copper safe which is a chelated copper and much more gentle on the fish. We switched to coppersafe at the LFS I work at and have had much better results with it over cupramine. Then there is always TTM which uses no chemicals at all to treat for ick. Just something to think about for later.

This. I had a desjardini that I treated for ich a year back, I took the recommended starting does and cut it to 1/4th of that and brought it up slowly over a week. Feed with metro and monitored the levels and everything worked out great for me!

 

[UncleSalty]

No the first few were added without QT

Not to be "that" guy, but if the other fish aren't QT'd, why would you QT this one? Did he display any symptoms at the store? - And I am asking because I legitimately do not know.

 

[willthethrill]

Not to be "that" guy, but if the other fish aren't QT'd, why would you QT this one? Did he display any symptoms at the store? - And I am asking because I legitimately do not know.

Because I started this system a few months ago and added a few fish but after doing research and asking everyone on this forum, I figured from here on out I should add new livestock the correct way by Quarantining first.

 

[monkiboy]

Not to be "that" guy, but if the other fish aren't QT'd, why would you QT this one? Did he display any symptoms at the store? - And I am asking because I legitimately do not know.

the benefits of qt even after other fish have not been are: you can assure your new purchase is eating vigorously in a controlled environment without the stress of other possible territorial fish, you can prophylactically treat for pathogens to avoid introduction of additional parasites or bacterium to your tank, you can begin training the fish to your presence and provider of food, you can get your new acquisition adjusted to your time zone, you will be able to view and diagnose any potential issues with much more ease, etc...

 

[Ocelaris]

Sorry for your loss, and it's exactly the reason I opted to skip any copper treatments. I just was too terrified to do copper. I have a 110 and just got 2 ocellaris clowns and a yellow tang, had a 40 breeder set up and a brute storage container. I did prazi the day before a tank transfer, and 2 rounds of formalin in a 5 gallon bucket with air stone for an hour (in between transfers). After day 30 they went into the display tank. I was doing the formalin for brook and prazi for intestinal bugs, and tank transfer for Ich. I even bought copper and a test kit, but couldn't pull the trigger. Again sorry for your loss, I'm sure it'll help future people looking at doing QT. They weren't showing any signs if disease at any point, probably could have kept them longer but I'm wondering what benefit copper or hypo-salinity provides over prazi/formalin/TTM.

 

[kesh]

Just for casual reader. I suspected my Sailfin and clown had velvet (swimming into powerhead). I only managed to get cupramine few days after noticing this. Worried that I may not have time, I dosed the half dose within 12 hours (3 doses split between 4 hours). I waited 12 hours and dosed the 2nd dose (again 3 doses split between 4 hours).
My clown responded better than the salifin. My sailfin seemed to slowed down and lacked appetite. But it was choosing between the lesser two evils and he soon regain his appetite a day later. I did not go for the full theraupetic range (0.5) however. I got to min theraputic range of 0.4 within 36 hours.
Then, over the next few days, I bump it up to 0.5.
But I do agree with others, if urgency is not factor, gradually ramp it up to full dose (0.5) over 7 days