Diagnosis and Treatment

[Davisc1293]

Sorry for the second post but I think I may have jumped too conclusions and with my ignorance on the subject I would like to keep this as unbiased as possible. As I said in my last post, this past week I've been observing my tank with a clown, bicolor blenny, and purple tang with crabs and snails also... I first noticed a tiny white spot on the CB so have been monitoring the tank closely. A couple days ago I came to the conclusion the white spots were just tiny grains of substrate because they never lasted more then a day. well today my clowns swimming erratically and has a white film on his side (not the tiny white specs I've been monitoring ) but a large white film almost.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My first thought is Brooklynella, a protozoan infection, but the tattered fins doesn't really match up. Any chance it is getting tagged by another fish in your tank? That can be difficult to notice because it could amount to one or two bites per day and you'll likely never see it happen.

Isolating the fish in a acclimation chamber hanging in the tank might be a good idea for now.....

Jay Hemdal

 

[Davisc1293]

I've seen my coral beauty chasing him a couples times... but didn't look serious.


But that MF is my number one suspect in another case lol I have one SPS not coming out and started the day I added him but I also changed my lights the same day so my first thought was that... but after a couple weeks with no signs of browning or bleaching just hiding I'm almost ready to rule lighting out especially since everything else is doing good. I think he's been nipping them. So sounds like he might be the one that's gotta go. I actually just got some similar frags today to see if I can catch him nipping them.

 

[Davisc1293]

My first thought is Brooklynella, a protozoan infection, but the tattered fins doesn't really match up. Any chance it is getting tagged by another fish in your tank? That can be difficult to notice because it could amount to one or two bites per day and you'll likely never see it happen.

Isolating the fish in a acclimation chamber hanging in the tank might be a good idea for now.....

Jay Hemdal

Brook was actually my first thought as well, but only after 20 minutes of research and no actual knowledge... that's why I made this 2nd thread. I didn't want to mention brook like I did in my first post and cause myside bias. Ill post a picture of the clown if you don't mind checking it out and giving me your opinion.

I did overnight some ruby reef pro from BRS but the clown died shortly after ordering so I most likely will not be treating the tank. I did manage to catch the CB and put him in an acclimation box as he was also my suspect for my monti closing up but while taking the rock out the catch him I noticed the backside of the monti IS bleached. So even though I've seen him nipping at both he's most likely not the cause of the stress, H'ell probably get a second chance in a few days and if the other monti starts to show signs of stress ill have to re home him.

 

[Davisc1293]

My first thought is Brooklynella, a protozoan infection, but the tattered fins doesn't really match up. Any chance it is getting tagged by another fish in your tank? That can be difficult to notice because it could amount to one or two bites per day and you'll likely never see it happen.

Isolating the fish in a acclimation chamber hanging in the tank might be a good idea for now.....

Jay Hemdal

After the clown died yesterday i was unsure what caused it was but now my purple tang is showing symptoms. PLEASE HELP!!! ATM I have on hand is cupramine, ich-x, and ruby reef pro should be here on the 27th. I do not currently have a qt setup as the this tank was meant to be my qt for my 120.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

After the clown died yesterday i was unsure what caused it was but now my purple tang is showing symptoms. PLEASE HELP!!! ATM I have on hand is cupramine, ich-x, and ruby reef pro should be here on the 27th. I do not currently have a qt setup as the this tank was meant to be my qt for my 120.

That appears to be a marine ich along with fin damage, again, I don’t know what is causing that damage though. If it is ich, that will usually progress to a full blown disease and will require treatment in a QT with copper.
The tang is also a bit thin.
Jay

 

[Davisc1293]

That appears to be a marine ich along with fin damage, again, I don’t know what is causing that damage though. If it is ich, that will usually progress to a full blown disease and will require treatment in a QT with copper.
The tang is also a bit thin.
Jay

I woke up this morning to my coral beauty being eaten by crabs and the tang is covered in many more larger white sots the only fish that hasn't shown any symptoms are my bicolor blenny. I've been feeding the tang tons of frozen cubes and constantly have nori for him to pick at but he's very small <2". I don't have a QT setup and probably wont be able to until at the earliest tomorrow night and am afraid he will not make it. Also all i have is cupramine, will this be an effective medication or the coppersafe will be here tomorrow as well with the ruby reef rally and kick ick.

 

[Davisc1293]

That appears to be a marine ich along with fin damage, again, I don’t know what is causing that damage though. If it is ich, that will usually progress to a full blown disease and will require treatment in a QT with copper.
The tang is also a bit thin.
Jay

I do not have extra filters ECT but I do have a 10 gal tank laying around can I just use a heater and a couple air stones with no actual filtration for my QT setup and if so, should I also add some microbacter 7 or other bacteria since it will be a new setup. also any help or tips for treatment will be greatly appreciated. As mentioned before I have ruby reef rally and kick ick on the way and should be here tomorrow along what the heck coppersafe and I already own cupramine at home. I also have ich-x, and kanalpex fom my freshwater tanks. I probably will not be able to set anything up tonight so hopefully the tang can hang in there for another day but appears to be detreating fast.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do not have extra filters ECT but I do have a 10 gal tank laying around can I just use a heater and a couple air stones with no actual filtration for my QT setup and if so, should I also add some microbacter 7 or other bacteria since it will be a new setup. also any help or tips for treatment will be greatly appreciated. As mentioned before I have ruby reef rally and kick ick on the way and should be here tomorrow along what the heck coppersafe and I already own cupramine at home. I also have ich-x, and kanalpex fom my freshwater tanks. I probably will not be able to set anything up tonight so hopefully the tang can hang in there for another day but appears to be detreating fast.

Well, given that two fish have have died (right?) the issue is very serious. I can't tell you exactly what is going on - the purple tang doesn't have enough ich spots to cause it to be more than just mildly sick. If the other fish had died from ich, you would have seen them covered in white spots. Is the tang breathing fast? You can post a short video and I may be able to judge that for you.

I do think you need to start a copper treatment in a medication tank - cupramine will work. Do you have a copper test kit though? You can use microbacter to jump start the bacterial cycle, but don't use ammonia removing chemicals with cupramine.

Jay

 

[Davisc1293]

Well, given that two fish have have died (right?) the issue is very serious. I can't tell you exactly what is going on - the purple tang doesn't have enough ich spots to cause it to be more than just mildly sick. If the other fish had died from ich, you would have seen them covered in white spots. Is the tang breathing fast? You can post a short video and I may be able to judge that for you.

I do think you need to start a copper treatment in a medication tank - cupramine will work. Do you have a copper test kit though? You can use microbacter to jump start the bacterial cycle, but don't use ammonia removing chemicals with cupramine.

Jay

yes two fish in two days... the other two fish showed very few white spots. But the ich on the purple tang has almost doubled from the photos I do not have a copper test kit, should I wait to get one before starting treatment??? I will post a video tonight but don't think I will be able to setup the hospital tank until tomorrow as ill need to clean it out and get the water heated/wont be home until around 10pm. If i can start it tonight i will just use the cupramine but if I wait until tomorrow which medication do you recommend between that or the copper safe?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

yes two fish in two days... the other two fish showed very few white spots. But the ich on the purple tang has almost doubled from the photos I do not have a copper test kit, should I wait to get one before starting treatment??? I will post a video tonight but don't think I will be able to setup the hospital tank until tomorrow as ill need to clean it out and get the water heated/wont be home until around 10pm. If i can start it tonight i will just use the cupramine but if I wait until tomorrow which medication do you recommend between that or the copper safe?

I would start Cupramine following the label instructions (2 half doses I think) Then, check your dose when you can get a test kit. You need to know the exact volume of your tank though - do you know that?
Jay

 

[Davisc1293]

Well, given that two fish have have died (right?) the issue is very serious. I can't tell you exactly what is going on - the purple tang doesn't have enough ich spots to cause it to be more than just mildly sick. If the other fish had died from ich, you would have seen them covered in white spots. Is the tang breathing fast? You can post a short video and I may be able to judge that for you.

I do think you need to start a copper treatment in a medication tank - cupramine will work. Do you have a copper test kit though? You can use microbacter to jump start the bacterial cycle, but don't use ammonia removing chemicals with cupramine.

The tang actually looks better then he did this morning but I am unable to upload a video for some reason. I plan to still setup a hospital tank tomorrow. Some rally pro came today ( I panick ordered and had it overnighted at first sign with the clown fish. Three or four hours after ordering the clown died and I tried to cancel my order from BRS as I didn't want to use it anymore for this situation. They could not cancel the order in time and I received it today but THEY REFUNDED THE SHIPPING!!! I was amazed and cant speak strongly enough about these guys, who also led me here.) I did treat the entire tank with the rally pro as I figured at this point it cant hurt too much but still plan on doing the copper treatment and possibly running the DT fallow. Is this my best option? and also can the crabs, snails and corals be left in the DT while fallow. and lastly should the blenny wait until after the coper treatment to put him in the QT as hes shown no signs but this would re introduce the ich to the qt so i assume they should both be treated together?

 

[Davisc1293]

I would start Cupramine following the label instructions (2 half doses I think) Then, check your dose when you can get a test kit. You need to know the exact volume of your tank though - do you know that?
Jay

To get the water volume exact I will use a measuring cup to take water from the DT into the hospital tank that way the volume will be exact but also I wont have to wait until the water heats up as I will not be home from work until this time tomorrow to get it setup. I will get and clean the 10 gal tank in the am before work and set it up around this time when I get home... I'm just hoping he makes it until then. Cross your fingers for me! Your input has been more greatly appreciated I cant thank you enough.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

To get the water volume exact I will use a measuring cup to take water from the DT into the hospital tank that way the volume will be exact but also I wont have to wait until the water heats up as I will not be home from work until this time tomorrow to get it setup. I will get and clean the 10 gal tank in the am before work and set it up around this time when I get home... I'm just hoping he makes it until then. Cross your fingers for me! Your input has been more greatly appreciated I cant thank you enough.

If the tank doesn't have a lot of rocks in it to displace water, you can just measure the inside length, height and width, multiply them together and divide by 231. For example: a tank that is 8" wide, 20" long and has a water depth of 6" would be: 8 x 20 x 6 = 960 divide by 231 = 4.2 gallons

Jay

 

[Davisc1293]

ok sweet that's easy enough!! my 10 gal does not hold water so all I have is a 5 gal is this big enough? I'm gonna run it bare bottom with nothing else in there. so water volume shouldn't be an issue. I ran on my lunch break and bought a salifert copper test and received coppersafe in the mail today as well. So my questions are should I use the cupramine or coppersafe, is the 5 gal with a couple air stones going to be sufficient, should I put the tang and the blenny in the hospital tank at the same time, and should I do any other medications before returning to the DT?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

ok sweet that's easy enough!! my 10 gal does not hold water so all I have is a 5 gal is this big enough? I'm gonna run it bare bottom with nothing else in there. so water volume shouldn't be an issue. I ran on my lunch break and bought a salifert copper test and received coppersafe in the mail today as well. So my questions are should I use the cupramine or coppersafe, is the 5 gal with a couple air stones going to be sufficient, should I put the tang and the blenny in the hospital tank at the same time, and should I do any other medications before returning to the DT?

I would treat with coppersafe, it's a bit milder. I am worried that the 5 gallon may be too small. If you have a spare hang on back filter, or a sponge filter, that would be better than just air stones. The fish do need some structure to feel secure - people use pieces of PVC pipe that the fish can use as caves. You'll need a heater also - keep the temperature are around 78 F.

Jay

 

[Davisc1293]

I would treat with coppersafe, it's a bit milder. I am worried that the 5 gallon may be too small. If you have a spare hang on back filter, or a sponge filter, that would be better than just air stones. The fish do need some structure to feel secure - people use pieces of PVC pipe that the fish can use as caves. You'll need a heater also - keep the temperature are around 78 F.

Jay

I just called my friend and he has a 20 gal tank I can use. Ill use that but probably wont fill it all the way. I'm going to mix/heat the water tonight when I get home from work and can hopefully have the fish in the tank by morning ill be up through the night setting it up. If I put a live rock from the dt into the hospital tank for the blenny will that rock not be able to be put back in the dt after treatment?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I wouldn’t reuse that live rock in a coral tank after soaking it in copper. You might be able to dissolve any copper out by soaking it in vinegar first, but then it won’t be live.
Jay

 

[Davisc1293]

I finally got everything setup with a HOB filter I had laying around, water mixed and is currently heating up but is still too cold (74) to acclimate the fish tonight. He seems to be doin ok, his fins look a little better today and he's still super excited when he sees me grab the nori clip. What I thought was a delivery confirmation for the coppersafe was acutaully an email saying its delayed but My salifert test kit only reads up to 2ppm and that's the dose for coppersafe. For this reason alone I'm leaning towards using the cupramine but also know you mentioned the coppersafe is milder and should be here tomorrow. Any thoughts on this? or other benefits to coppersafe as I don't want to cause unnecessary stress to my purple tang but need to start this treatment asap and don't have time to order another test kit within a day. Another big concern I have is going to be ammonia since this is not a cycled QT. I did use microbacter 7. I was going to add the bio media cylinders as well but heard they may absorb the copper so I did not add them. I know I'm being a bit much but your help is so appreciated as I'm a newbie and very worried about my tang.

 

[Davisc1293]

I wouldn’t reuse that live rock in a coral tank after soaking it in copper. You might be able to dissolve any copper out by soaking it in vinegar first, but then it won’t be live.
Jay

Also, do you own a business I can support or donate to? You're help has been invaluable not only to my piece of mind but hopefully for my purple tang in the long run as well and neither of us can thank you enough. Whatever the outcome is in my situation, your knowledge and support has kept me positive and excited about this hobby even when dealing with something as frustrating as diseased fish.