Did my blue tang break out in ich???? In DT!!!

[Miami Reef]

I did fallow for over 76 days. No additions.

I put all fish fish through 14 days copper power 2.5ppm and I transferred into a sterile QT for observation.


Today I transferred my blue tang (first addition) back into DT. My blue tang looked crystal clear before the transfer. I went to work today and I see 2 spots on my tang when I came back home 7 hours later.

Is this ich or just bacterial stuff from the new stress from going into the new tank.

If I failed and brought in ich I officially give up on my tank. I did everything PERFECTLY. This is IMPOSSIBLE!!

The blue tang only has 2 spots. You can clearly see them in this amazing photo I took.

 

[Miami Reef]

If I failed at quarantine. I fully accept that ich eradication is not in my cards. I literally could not have done this more perfect. There’s no chance. How is this possible? I’m more surprised than disappointed at this point.

 

[Miami Reef]

Maybe it’s just lympho? Possibly the stress from going into a massive tank from a tiny QT scared it?

My only option is to wait. If I see the spots get bigger and wart like I’ll know it’s lympho.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That's a clear photo. I think I can see that the raised bumps are blue. If they were ich trophonts, I would expect them to be raised and white.

I would just watch the fish for now. If new spots develop, or if these spots drop off after 36 hours, that would point more to ich. No need to rush into anything yet - if it isn't ich, you'll just stress the tang, if it is ich, it is already in the tank, so moving the tang out right away won't be of any benefit.

I don't think it is Lymphocystis - doesn't look right, and isn't in a typical location.

Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

Thank you Jay.

So it’s been over 24 hours since this original post. The blue tang has the same spots. It hasn’t gained nor lost any.

I have a black mollie in my DT that was QT’d together and it looks clean. As a matter of fact, all the 9 fish were put into the DT where quarantined and exposed to each other.

And none of the fish have the raised bumps except for the blue tang.

Maybe since blue tangs like to rub and cuddle against rocks and things (I also have a coolia Dino outbreak on my rocks and sand) maybe the bumps are inflammation? Maybe the tang got stung by a coral?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you Jay.

So it’s been over 24 hours since this original post. The blue tang has the same spots. It hasn’t gained nor lost any.

I have a black mollie in my DT that was QT’d together and it looks clean. As a matter of fact, all the 9 fish were put into the DT where quarantined and exposed to each other.

And none of the fish have markings except for the blue tang.

I’d give it a full 36 hours. I sometimes wonder if with all the variables in play, that I should tell folks to watch the spots for 48 hours, but for sure 36.
Of course, that only tells you that it isn’t ich, doesn’t tell us what it actually is. I’d say though, most likely just a couple of bumped scales….
Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

I actually did notice TINY TINY new bumps near the tail which grew to a more noticeable size just now.

The spots don’t look like ich. I’ve dealt with ich. I’m almost positive it’s something bacterial?

Phew. This is so stressful. I carefully quarantined all my animals and let my tank go fallow on 3 months at over 81F. I felt like I was going to faint when I saw these new marks in the picture.

I put this blue tang through 2 treatments of copper for 14 days and transfer because it broke out with bacteria plugs and I thought it was ich.

But during copper treatment it broke out in the same plugs but cleared. As soon as I transferred this fish back into the DT it gets these spots.

This is so sad if it’s ich. I don’t know how I’d cope because I did everything so carefully and kept bleaching my tanks to prevent any possible parasites. I really don’t know how it’s possible for ich to ONLY attach to my blue tang.

I have other ich prone fish (black mollie, copperband, angel fish) in DT but they all look clear.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I believe ich trophants Or Flukes. As Jay stated, Lympho is out as they would be white oval nodules.

 

[Miami Reef]

I believe ich trophants Or Flukes. As Jay stated, Lympho is out as they would be white oval nodules.

But bacterial bumps can still be a possibility. Oh how I hope it’s not ich. I would love a refund for all the time, money, and tears I spent for absolutely nothing.

 

[Miami Reef]

If this is ich, I will never recommend quarantine to anyone ever again. I’ll just be like the group of people that say “all fish have ich no matter what”.

Edit. Ignore this post. I’m just hurt and upset because I worked so hard for nothing.

Right now I’m jumping to conclusions. We don’t know for certain it’s ich. I need to just be patient and not get emotional. There’s nothing I can do at this point besides for wait.

 

[lakai]

If you wanted to be careful why didn’t you put it through the full 30 days of copper. I do 6 weeks in copper now with any tang before I dump it in the dt now.

sorry I know how you feel. I’ve had a wipeout, gone through a fallow, etc. I freaked out every time I see anything on a fish for the first few months after.

 

[Miami Reef]

If you wanted to be careful why didn’t you put it through the full 30 days of copper. I do 6 weeks in copper now with any tang before I dump it in the dt now.

I don’t think it was the treatment that failed. This isn’t possible! I literally observed the fish in a 10 gallon tank for almost 2 weeks! Ich HAD to have shown. Especially on my black mollie.

Why does ONLY my blue tang have “ich”

Should I go out and buy black mollies that were never exposed to saltwater fish before to help me with parasite detection?

I…I’m stunned. This doesn’t make sense.

I really don’t think it’s ich.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don’t think it was the treatment that failed. This isn’t possible! I literally observed the fish in a 10 gallon tank for almost 2 weeks! Ich HAD to have shown. Especially on my black mollie.

Why does ONLY my blue tang have “ich”

Should I go out and buy black mollies that were never exposed to saltwater fish before to help me with parasite detection?

I…I’m stunned. This doesn’t make sense.

I really don’t think it’s ich.

Just a few observations:

These new spots are not the same as the first ones I commented on, I am not able to say if they are ich or not. I don't THINK they are, but they are white. Do you see any spots on the fins? white spots on the fins and the body is more indicative of ich or bacterial versus flukes or mucus plugs.

Here is my opinion on relying on black mollies from my book:

Using black mollies to screen an aquarium for Cryptocaryon
In recent years, a procedure has been promoted that uses marine-adapted freshwater mollies to screen for active Cryptocaryon infections in marine aquariums. The thought is that black mollies that are naïve to marine ectoparasites, will soon develop infections if the disease is present in the aquarium. Being black, these parasites will show up in sharp contrast, making their identification much easier. Mollies have also been suggested to be housed alongside sensitive fish (that cannot be easily medicated) to serve as a “canary in the coal mine” for active disease.

The basic process is to acquire a small group of freshwater black mollies and gradually acclimate them to seawater over a period of 5 to 7 days. They then are added to the previously fallow aquarium, or added to the quarantine tank, and then observed for at least two weeks to see if they develop ectoparasites. If they do, then a treatment needs to be instituted, or the fallow period extended.

As with many aquarium ideas, over-extrapolation can reduce the effectiveness of the original idea. The process is really only suited to screen for Cryptocaryon. Brooklynella may not even infect mollies. Uronema and Amyloodinium can survive salinities as low as 3 ppt so may already be present in “freshwater” mollies that have been raised in brackish fish ponds. Marine and freshwater fish have basically the same internal salinity. Therefore, untreatable internal diseases, such as viruses and Myxozoans could possibly be brought into an aquarium with the mollies.
There is a risk for introducing euryhaline trematodes into an aquarium along with black mollies. Fish farmers, wholesalers and retail dealers all understand that mollies benefit from being housed in brackish water, and so they usually add salt to systems housing mollies in order to reduce mortality under crowded conditions. Euryhaline trematodes take advantage of this, the trouble is that some of these can survive marine conditions and then hyposalinity is ineffective as a treatment for them.

Finally, here have been no scientific studies that indicate this method is actually effective, it is based on sound theory, but needs to be better tested. This process does seem to have benefit in screening for Cryptocaryon, but falls short for other diseases.

Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

Thanks Jay!

The blue tang’s fins are clear.

So, do you recommend me buying the group of black mollies or not?

 

[Dom]

If this is ich, I will never recommend quarantine to anyone ever again. I’ll just be like the group of people that say “all fish have ich no matter what”.

Edit. Ignore this post. I’m just hurt and upset because I worked so hard for nothing.

Right now I’m jumping to conclusions. We don’t know for certain it’s ich. I need to just be patient and not get emotional. There’s nothing I can do at this point besides for wait.

Allow me to try and talk you down off that ledge you're standing on...

The practice of quarantining is both good and necessary. Personally, I quarantine 90 days. And if I observe disease and treat, I restart the 90 day clock once disease has cleared.

Reef keeping is a science. And as is true with other hobbies and interests, there is a learning curve in reef keeping as well.

Personally, I have been in the hobby 15-20 years. And while this may seem to be a long time, it isn't.

I still find that there is much more that I don't know than I do. And while I'm not sure how long you've been in the hobby, I get the impression that it isn't very long.

It is my experience that hobbyists who find themselves contending with disease in their displays, typically are in a rush to get their new acquisitions in to their displays. And that you are coming off a fallow period suggests to me that may be the case here.

In many ways, owning a reef tank is more work than owning a dog. Depending on the work to be done, I can spend between 30–60 minutes daily on aquarium husbandry… and sometimes even more.

Patience. Webster’s Dictionary defines it to mean: “done in a careful way over a long period of time without hurrying”. Patience; almost as important as the very water in which your inhabitants will live.

We live in a society where instant gratification is facilitated by credit cards and payment plans. There are many things we can own impulsively, but a captivating reef tank cannot be counted among them.

A reef tank is not a traditional fixture which you set up in your home. Unlike a TV, you don’t pull it from a box, plug it in and enjoy. It must be constructed and nurtured so that it will grow into the magnificent display you see it as in your mind’s eye. Much in the way that a summer garden is cultivated to grow into a state of rich colors and aromatic blends, a reef tank is the cultivation of a marine environment.

Owning a reef tank is commonly referred to as “reef keeping”. Webster defines the word “keeping” to mean: “the action of owning, maintaining, or protecting something”. What are we maintaining? Water quality, lighting and nutrition. What are we protecting? Our investment!

Reef keeping is not an inexpensive hobby. Depending on the size of your setup, it is not unreasonable to expect to spend between one and a few thousand dollars in the first year of your project. The good news is that as a hobby which requires patience, it is a project which can be completed in stages. Because of this, the cash layout can be in several smaller amounts instead of the complete cost, all at once.

If it sounds like I am trying to discourage you, I’m not. I’m simply trying to make clear, the financial and work commitment necessary. Once the decision to move forward in reef keeping is reached, anything less than seeing it through to the end is a waste of your time and money. And remember: your goal isn’t to have a tank that survives, but a tank that thrives!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay!

The blue tang’s fins are clear.

So, do you recommend me buying the group of black mollies or not?

I’m not a fan of using mollies - from a cost/risk/benefit standpoint, it just doesn’t work out for me. I list the process in my book because it’s out there, and people are going to do it.

Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

I’m not a fan of using mollies - from a cost/risk/benefit standpoint, it just doesn’t work out for me. I list the process in my book because it’s out there, and people are going to do it.

Jay

I thought this through in my head and I decided to not buy the black mollies. If I have ich in my tank, the damage was already done. If I don’t, then the spots will go away and never come back again.


Black mollies won’t help anything but possibly bring in internal parasites.

I’m going to check on the fish in a few hours. Is there any signs that differentiate ich from bacterial/viral spots?


Something about spots remaining over 48 hours? If the same spots in the original message remain, does that mean it’s not ich?

What are some helpful clues? I already have a quarantined black mollie in the tank. Any parasites should still show pretty clearly on it. As of last time I checked, it’s still clean.

 

[Miami Reef]

I have a nice update.

The spots in the original post have still remained. Not ich guaranteed.

The new “ich” spots that started small around the tail disappeared and was completely clear in about 6 hours time. Tonight it’s back but it’s brown and stringy. Dangling off the skin.

I can only assume that it’s just a reaction from the blue tang rubbing against the (toxic) Dino’s.

No ich. And my black mollie AND the remaining 7 fish look clear.

 

[Miami Reef]

Of course. I will observe fish daily for the next 2 weeks to ensure ich isn’t there. I’m a bit paranoid and one part of me STILL thinks it’s there.

Thank you Jay!

 

[RabidDragon]

@Miami Reef

The photo of the original post with the hippo and the two raised black spots are identical to the ones my hippo currently has and very similar locations. I first notice one of these spots about a week ago, my first guess was it brushed up against an urchin that I recently added and got poked. I also added a bunch of snails and hermit crabs at the same time a little more than a week prior to the first spot showing up.

I've now noticed a few more of these pinprick black spots on the hippo in the last couple days but they don't appear to be raised anymore. This fish occasionally flashes and rubs' up against objects, especially when the water flow stops.

I've tried to take pictures of this under white light but the hippo goes into hiding as soon as I modify the lighting to do so.

I also have a dino issue that I haven't been able to beat for ~6 months. There are hydroid medusae in my return pump chamber of my sump as well. I have a Pentair 50 running on the tank with parasite water flow for a couple months so I wasn't expecting any parasites.

It would be nice to know how your hippo is currently doing, are you still getting these spots?

Thanks,