Dino confusion - need help

chadfish

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Hi All,

I have dinoflagellates, have been doing a ton of reading, and I'm confused. Do dinos feed off nitrate and phosphate, or what? I read some guides that say to lower your phosphate and nitrate, and other that say low nitrate & phosphate are the problem. Which is it?

I feel like my fuge started it. I was running the light 12h and my chaeto has been overrun with algae for a while. I did a sump clean-out but it just all came back. I use filter floss to keep big chucks from entering my DT.

So what do I do? Also, I'm battling ich at the same time. what the heck? I've been trying to do all the right things, I have all the right equipment, I try not to make drastic changes, I don't feed a lot. I dose some phyto for the coral and dose alk to keep the alk stable.

I'm starting to get discouraged.

Salinity: 1.024 - held steady with ATO
Phos: 0.5 (API)
Nitrate: 0 (API)
pH: 8.2 ish (API is inconclusive)
Alk: 7.5 - 8 depending (Also API)
Tank 40g breeder
Fuge: 20 gal with chaeto in fuge and par38 bulb
Lighting: Orbit 36inch and Beamswork quad30 (150 watt)
UV: Coralife 3X Turbotwist
GFO tumbler with a small amount of PO4X4
Stock: 6 small fish, BTA, couple frags, some snails, hermits, and a fighting conch
6 month old tank
Edit: temp set at 79F with inkbird
Skimmer = Brand new Aquamaxx HOB in sump
 
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DeniableArc

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For me and many reefers I got Dino’s from bottoming out p04 . Have you got a microscope for algae ID? API test kits are notoriously inaccurate, especially at the lower ends like we need in a reef tank. I would recommend Hanna URL for p04 and salifert for nitrate. For the time being till someone else chimes in I would half the photo period in your fuge.
 
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chadfish

chadfish

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For me and many reefers I got Dino’s from bottoming out p04 . Have you got a microscope for algae ID? API test kits are notoriously inaccurate, especially at the lower ends like we need in a reef tank. I would recommend Hanna URL for p04 and salifert for nitrate. For the time being till someone else chimes in I would half the photo period in your fuge.
Good questions. Here are my dinos at 1200x with my kid’s microscope and my iPhone 11. They are “live” photos and they are swimming in circles, but that won’t upload. I’ve been told they are ostreopsis.

I decided to black out the fuge and dose some nitrogen. We’ll see what the effects of that are in the coming days.
8FABB095-F6CB-4F74-8CFD-4CCE8D82FC86.jpeg
2F9718B6-B851-47D7-A5A0-15B29FAB6499.jpeg
 
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chadfish

chadfish

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For me and many reefers I got Dino’s from bottoming out p04 . Have you got a microscope for algae ID? API test kits are notoriously inaccurate, especially at the lower ends like we need in a reef tank. I would recommend Hanna URL for p04 and salifert for nitrate. For the time being till someone else chimes in I would half the photo period in your fuge.
I have a Hanna UL phosphate in the mail
 

zalick

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Of the two you can see in the photo, it's hard to tell what they are. The bottom looks like ostreopsis but the top looks like could be coolia. Look up coolia.
 
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chadfish

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Of the two you can see in the photo, it's hard to tell what they are. The bottom looks like ostreopsis but the top looks like could be coolia. Look up coolia.
I’m pretty sure the bottom is just a huge clump of the same. Looked up coolia. Looks like a genus of ostreopsidacae. But they are more oval than round so I’m going with ostreopsis. Either way, no so coolio. Little ****ers
 
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chadfish

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Just got my Hanna ULP and apparently API was off by a factor of 10. I’m not at 0.5ppm, I’m at 0.05 ppm. Which I think is pretty good!! Shutting off GFO tumbler for now.
 

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Good questions. Here are my dinos at 1200x with my kid’s microscope and my iPhone 11. They are “live” photos and they are swimming in circles, but that won’t upload. I’ve been told they are ostreopsis.

I decided to black out the fuge and dose some nitrogen. We’ll see what the effects of that are in the coming days.
8FABB095-F6CB-4F74-8CFD-4CCE8D82FC86.jpeg
2F9718B6-B851-47D7-A5A0-15B29FAB6499.jpeg

Chad, it's difficult to say for sure but the first picture appears to be ostreopsis. If so UV is the best way to get rid of it. Sometimes literally over night. You NO3/PO4 balance is wildly out of proportion. You need to get your nitrate up to 5-10 and then slowly (and carefully so as not to bottom it out) lower your PO4 to around 0.06-0.12.

If you could post a video of the dinos in the first picture at about 250x or so we could be certain (although I'm pretty sure already). Recheck the magnification on that first picture....that's not 1200X more likely 120X. There aren't any definite dinos in the second picture. Just some green filamentous algae and some possibles.
 

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there was only 2 of them you saw? aren't there usually like 100's of them clumped together like in a rave?
 
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Chad, it's difficult to say for sure but the first picture appears to be ostreopsis. If so UV is the best way to get rid of it. Sometimes literally over night. You NO3/PO4 balance is wildly out of proportion. You need to get your nitrate up to 5-10 and then slowly (and carefully so as not to bottom it out) lower your PO4 to around 0.06-0.12.

If you could post a video of the dinos in the first picture at about 250x or so we could be certain (although I'm pretty sure already). Recheck the magnification on that first picture....that's not 1200X more likely 120X. There aren't any definite dinos in the second picture. Just some green filamentous algae and some possibles.
Thanks. Like I said, it was a Kid’s scope, and it said 1200x but who knows for sure. That’s as high as it goes.

Also, as I posted recently, I never knew my phosphate level. I thought .5ppm from API (Maybe they were low the whole time?!) I finally got a ULP and they are now down to 0.04-0.05

I turned up my UV to the appropriate flow rate, and set the lights to “acclimate” mode. Still dinos. Corals are starting to show stress. CUC too. I feel like it’s toxins even though I’m running GAC.
Trying not to freak out. Big water change tomorrow, then maybe some “beneficial” bacteria and some live phytoplankton. A bit of live rock or sludge is in my future at some point too.
 
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The most common type they appear is when phosphate bottoms out. I suppose nitrate bottoming out would have a similar effect, but I would expect cyano if phosphate is present.
 
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chadfish

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there was only 2 of them you saw? aren't there usually like 100's of them clumped together like in a rave?
I didn’t do a great job taking a sample and preparing the slide. I haven’t used a microscope since high school I think.
 

saltyhog

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Thanks. Like I said, it was a Kid’s scope, and it said 1200x but who knows for sure. That’s as high as it goes.

Also, as I posted recently, I never knew my phosphate level. I thought .5ppm from API (Maybe they were low the whole time?!) I finally got a ULP and they are now down to 0.04-0.05

I turned up my UV to the appropriate flow rate, and set the lights to “acclimate” mode. Still dinos. Corals are starting to show stress. CUC too. I feel like it’s toxins even though I’m running GAC.
Trying not to freak out. Big water change tomorrow, then maybe some “beneficial” bacteria and some live phytoplankton. A bit of live rock or sludge is in my future at some point too.

How big is your tank? What UV do you have? How is it plumbed and what is your flow through the UV? These questions are critical to success. With a correct set up you should have seen very fast improvement in ostreopsis!
 
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chadfish

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How big is your tank? What UV do you have? How is it plumbed and what is your flow through the UV? These questions are critical to success. With a correct set up you should have seen very fast improvement in ostreopsis!
I have a 40g breeder with 15 gal sump and a Coralife Turbotwist 3x set to ~250gph which is 10,000 μw sec/cm2. It’s not plumbed, it it’s in the return section of the sump with the outlet pointed at the inlet of the return pump. I read in one of these threads that quoted some study that said you need something crazy like 800,000 μw sec/cm2 for dinos. So I’m not sure I’m going to create a big dent with this 9w bulb. That said, I have a fresh bulb on order. Not sure how old the present one is.
 

saltyhog

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I have a 40g breeder with 15 gal sump and a Coralife Turbotwist 3x set to ~250gph which is 10,000 μw sec/cm2. It’s not plumbed, it it’s in the return section of the sump with the outlet pointed at the inlet of the return pump. I read in one of these threads that quoted some study that said you need something crazy like 800,000 μw sec/cm2 for dinos. So I’m not sure I’m going to create a big dent with this 9w bulb. That said, I have a fresh bulb on order. Not sure how old the present one is.



That explains your lack of success. That unit is undersized for your tank and the flow is way too fast. I've not heard much good said about the Coralife units even when appropriately sized.
 
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chadfish

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What do you recommend for a UVC dose? My dinos started up really bad whe I turned the UV flow down to help with ich. I’ve since restored it to its prior flow rate.

At 250gal/hr I have ~5 turns per hour and I run it 24/7. How many turns do I needs for dinos?

As far as the unit itself is concerned, a UVC dose is a UVC dose is a UVC dose. The bulb does all the work and the bulbs are all the same. The twist seems solid, it gets the water where
 
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chadfish

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That explains your lack of success. That unit is undersized for your tank and the flow is way too fast. I've not heard much good said about the Coralife units even when appropriately sized.
What do you recommend for a UVC dose? My dinos started up really bad when I turned the UV flow down to help with ich. I’ve since restored it to its prior flow rate.

At 250gal/hr I have ~5 turns per hour and I run it 24/7. How many turns do I need for dinos?

As far as the unit itself is concerned, a UVC dose is a UVC dose is a UVC dose. The bulb does all the work and the bulbs are all the same. The twist seems solid, it gets the water where it needs to be.
 

saltyhog

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What do you recommend for a UVC dose? My dinos started up really bad when I turned the UV flow down to help with ich. I’ve since restored it to its prior flow rate.

At 250gal/hr I have ~5 turns per hour and I run it 24/7. How many turns do I need for dinos?

As far as the unit itself is concerned, a UVC dose is a UVC dose is a UVC dose. The bulb does all the work and the bulbs are all the same. The twist seems solid, it gets the water where it needs to be.

Just summarizing experiences by others that have used it.

Calculating UVC dose really isn't a necessity but you can calculate it if you like from the recommended wattage and flow rates.....which are 1-3 watts/gallon of display volume and flow through the unit at 1-3 times display volume (I like to run it towards the bottom end of that flow range). You can think of it needing UVC more similar to parasites(ich) than algae. Slow flow, higher end UVC.
 

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