Dino ID help please

[GarrettP]

The tank is only a couple of months old. I had a dry rock and sand start. This is my third tank, first dry start and first encounter with Dino. I am Testing 0 Nitrate which I think is the cause. So far I've just reduced the light time and intensity to half to hopefully keep it slightly contained. I've got SpongeXecel on the way to start dosing Nitrate, a bunch of copepods and phyoplankton, as well as way to dose phos. I also got some Dino X as a last resort. The growth is on most surfaces but esp. on the upper back glass. They are stringy and slimy. This sample was taken from the back glass. They haven't been present long so I'm hoping to act quickly but I can't tell if they are Amphidinium, Prorocentrum, or something else. I added cheato to the fuge the day before I decided it wasn't diatoms and I'm not sure if that's good or bad. It's good algae, but if my problem is low nutrients the it maybe counter productive. I am slowly upping my feeding. Corals, fish and snails are fine, but the snails maybe sluggish. Any advice is welcome.

 

[Idoc]

I'm not definitely sure... the ones in the bottom of the movie look a little like large cell amphidinium, but not exactly. Let's see what @taricha or @Dan_P says about this one.

 

[GarrettP]

I'm not definitely sure... the ones in the bottom of the movie look a little like large cell amphidinium, but not exactly. Let's see what @taricha or @Dan_P says about this one.

Thanks for a reply. Thought I'd add pic of it without the microscope, see if that helps.

 

[Idoc]

Thanks for a reply. Thought I'd add pic of it without the microscope, see if that helps.

Definitely looks like dinos by those pics...

The more I look at those initial pics, I am leaning toward Prorocentrum now.

 

[jarviz]

i believe dinos too. what are you phosphate and nitrates at?

 

[Dan_P]

There are filaments of Spirulina, cyanobacteria, present as well.

Are you making any attempt to vacuum up all this mess?

 

[GarrettP]

There are filaments of Spirulina, cyanobacteria, present as well.

Are you making any attempt to vacuum up all this mess?

No, not really. I'm trying to crowd out the Dinos with less toxic algae, removing it would be counter productive. I want dirty, for now. The tank is still very young and in the typical ugly stages. In fact it seems like the Dinos have already retreated quite a bit just from increasing feedings and temps and decreasing light. Tonight I poured in 12 bottles of copepods and plankton. Bring on the grime.

 

[vetteguy53081]

First- Check phosphates and nitrates to assure theyre not elevated.
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[jarviz]

why wouldn't you want to feed corals? i thought Dinos thrive in low nutrient tanks... wouldn't feeding raise nutrients?

 

[GarrettP]

First- Check phosphates and nitrates to assure theyre not elevated.
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

I appreciate the response. Nitrates are 0 and phosphates are barely detectable, and as I understand it that is the cause of the Dinos. I have to get rid of the cause or they will just return. Once my levels are good I will work at removal as a kind of final blow, hopefully. The dino's honestly seem to be leaving already as the tank matures and more algea starts competing. Some rocks even started turning green finally and most of the rest are diatoms. The pictures are the the worst areas of the display under full bright whites. It's not quite as bad as it looks.

 

[GarrettP]

So, It looks like I may have beaten Dinos in three days, or never REALLY had them. This morning I took 9 microscope samples: 3 from the darkest patches of sand, 3 of the tell tale bubbly stands of algae coming off my upper rocks, and 3 off the back glass. In those 9 slides I saw only one or two solitary dinos, they left frame too quickly to be sure of or to capture a image. If a microorganism could look lost and confused these did. The tank also is visually better, the sand looks to be mostly diatoms or bare, the snails have mowed down a lot of what was on the rocks.
So what changed?

1.)I cut the light cycle down to 7 hours and max intensity down to 60%.
2.)I increased tank temp by one degree per day until I hit 83.
3.)I fed heavily, 4 cubes of frozen for two clowns, four antheas and 2 cardinals, and flake, which only the clowns eat. (The system is aprox 170 gallons including sump).
4.) I turned the overpowered skimmer way down. (3. and 4. allowed me to raise my nitrates to detectable levels, though just barely detectable. I plan to continue to raise them slowly.)
5.) Dosed 12 giant bottles of copepods from Canada Copepods. (their seed pack)
6.)Dosed the recommended ammount of "Ocean Phyto" https://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/Ocean-Phyto-LIVE-Phytoplankton-500ML.html which is advertised to help with Dino.
7.) Added cheato to the refugium
8.) Continued sporadic bacterial dosing I'd been doing since the tank's cycle.


So no chemicals, no manual removal, no messing with the sand bed. I focused on building up the ecosystem by increasing biodiversity and making things dirty.

The video is a sample from the same spot in the tank as the pervious video. It's uneventful, just like the other 8 slides.

I determined I had Dinos by the look of the growth, the fact the my snails kept falling over and the sudden death of a lawnmower blenny I obviously added far too soon. I'm embarrassed to have made that mistake. Did I ever have a real outbreak, I really don't know. I had some. Hopefully this post will help someone else who perhaps catches the problem very early.
My sympathies to those who have been fighting for months. I don't post to diminish your struggle just share my own story, and I'm not counting myself out of the woods just yet for sure.

Oh and big thanks to this forum for all the helpful advice in this thread and many others.