Dino Id Help

[240reef]

Trying to id this crud.I have read way too much on this and I really dont have much of a plan how battle it yet.Soo much conflicting info.
I know the first thing is to try and identify it,but I am by no means a biologist.
These are the best pictures i can get with a borrowed microscope and improvised cell phone .
Tank is a 240g with approx 60 gal sump.
it has been set up for almost a year so it it relatively new.
roughly about 250 dry brs pukani rock and a minumal sand bed.
I love this set up/system except for this nasty dino outbreak(i think) I am encountering.
they seem to spin in a circles.

 

[240reef]

alk is 9.6
nitrates undetectable
phos .15
calcium 420
also cant seem to keep chaeto alive very long.melts away with time.
I do the usual 30 -40 gal WC every 2 weeks or so.looks good for a couple of days and that about it and have to clean glass evry 4 to 5 days.

 

[Beardo]

Yep, those are dinos, Ostreopsis sp.

 

[enveeRF]

I agree that it looks like Ostreopsis from the reading I've done.

 

[240reef]

And from what I've been reading,it's one of the more difficult strains to combat.
I think I'm going to try the elevated ph approach.Seems easy enough to try at least as a starting point.
Any suggestions other than that?
I don't want to do anything drastic or start with chemical cocktails.

 

[Reefer1978]

And from what I've been reading,it's one of the more difficult strains to combat.
I think I'm going to try the elevated ph approach.Seems easy enough to try at least as a starting point.
Any suggestions other than that?
I don't want to do anything drastic or start with chemical cocktails.

I don't think elevated PH has worked on Ostreopsis. I'd go back to main Dino thread, and ask for advice there. Nice to see another NewYorker on here, welcome.

 

[240reef]

Thanks,I've read soo many dino threads,I don't know what is the "Main Dino Thread".
Also thought about using Dino X but
Seems like a band aid to a gun shot wound.

 

[Beardo]

I tried many different things and Ostreopsis were one of the dinos I was dealing with. Elevated pH didn't really help for me, even at 8.75 for a couple of months. Dino-x doesn't seem to be effective for Ostreopsis, tho it does work for some other species. It is very hard on corals and some inverts though.
What worked for me was large UV sterilizer in conjunction with elevated nutrient levels. I initially installed a 57 watt unit on a 240 a couple years ago but it didn't have much affect on them. Ran the same unit on a 270 that I upgraded to and had transferred dinos into again with no success. After upgrading the UV to a 114 watt unit, Ostreopsis along with Coolia and Prorocentrum were gone in a week.

 

[240reef]

I was also looking into probably the same 57watt unit.but again getting conflicting opinions if they are effective or not.
Im nervous to spend $500 on a good unit only to have a crystal clear dino infested tank.

 

[Beardo]

I was also looking into probably the same 57watt unit.but again getting conflicting opinions if they are effective or not.
Im nervous to spend $500 on a good unit only to have a crystal clear dino infested tank.

I understand completely. I started battling back in January of 2015 and am just now getting a handle on them. Out of desperation tried just about everything. Dropping the $500 on the UV and having it not work was pretty frustrsting.
I was at the point of doing a full reset and as last resort dropped the money on a larger UV. It worked for me but there are no guarantees.

Some of the mixed results are for various reasons I'm sure. Some that I am aware of are:
Species- UV isn't effective against every species of dinos mostly due to whether they readily enter the water column or not. I found 7 different species of dinos in my tank. The UV only worked on the 3 I mentioned previously. The 2 different species of amphidinium and the 2 species I haven't been able to positively identify were unaffected. I was able to deal with the amphidinium with Dino-X though but Dino-X wasn't effective against those remaining 2 species.

Cysts - some species of dinos, including Ostreopsis form cysts which can later germinate or hatch and cause another outbreak. I found numerous encysted dinos under the scope. When I was treating with Dino-X I had to turn the UV off. After about a week I started to find a few Coolia species again and their population was starting to increase throughout the treatment. I'm sure they came from cysts. Once I completed the Dino-X and turned the UV back on they again disappeared. My opinion when using UV for dinos is to continue to run it for atleast 6 months since cysts can remain viable for long periods of time. For me personally, I will continue to run it for the life of my tank.
From my experience, and from others I have read, size the UV for 2 - 2 1/2 gallons per watt.

Going forward along with the UV I will maintain nutrients at a reasonable level to maintain biodiversity that hopefully out competes any dinos that may get introduced. There is a long thread that discusses this and seems to correlate with what I experienced. My dino outbreaks, first in the 240 then in the 270, occurred when I drove my nutrients too low, either with carbon dosing or gfo or s combination of both.

Sorry for such a long post, just sharing some of what I experienced in hopes it helps in your battle.

 

[chefjpaul]

I am having some battles won right now as well.
My nutrients were very low, started with dry / sanitized rock, minimal sand, minimal bio load.

I was going to go for a low nutrient tank, but had to pull my fish and go fallow, being I was only running NO3 @ 3 & PO4 @ 0-.1 it totally sank to zeros across the board.
Only thing I believe saved most of my corals from the nutrients bottoming out and the dino infestation was I lowered my lighting and my KH was low and stable @7.3

Now, I have been dosing PO4 & NO3, mainly PO4 as I believe, from doing this almost daily, that this dry rock is partly responsible for absorbing the nutrients some how???

I have zero fish in there and it is still consuming. 01-.03 PO4 every day or two. Crazy.
NO3 is staying pretty stable.

Since doing this dosing regiment, I developed a massively infestation of GHA, BUT the dinos have almost disapeard.
I know they're always around the corner.... lurking..waiting like a stalker

 

[240reef]

This is all awesome great material but it all seems like educated guessing and trial by error.hopefully throw in some luck...
Uv sounds promising but 2-2.5 watts/gal would be ridiculous especially to change bulbs out regularly.

 

[Beardo]

This is all awesome great material but it all seems like educated guessing and trial by error.hopefully throw in some luck...
Uv sounds promising but 2-2.5 watts/gal would be ridiculous especially to change bulbs out regularly.

That's gallons per watt not watts per gallon so not quite as extreme as you are thinking. Said another way 0.4 - 0.5 watts per gallon.
Yes it is educated guesses and trial and error. As I said I was just sharing my experiences and what I learned over the years in battling dinos. I sure wish I knew the perfect solution for battling dinos, would have saved me alot of headaches and money.

 

[rtparty]

This is all awesome great material but it all seems like educated guessing and trial by error.hopefully throw in some luck...
Uv sounds promising but 2-2.5 watts/gal would be ridiculous especially to change bulbs out regularly.

You have it backwards. It's 1 watt per 2 gallons, not 2 watts per 1 gallon.

I am currently fighting Ostreopsis as well. Elevated nutrients worked really well for the first little bit but then they came back ticked off. I added a UV sterilizer last night and let it run today. When I got home the tank was way clearer than it has been for weeks. So I am excited that the sterilizer might be working. I'm wondering if I had the sterilizer on with the initial nutrient spike if it would have held them off and not let them come back.

I don't think most of this is guessing at this point. Mcarroll's dino thread is full of information that has helped dozens and dozens (hundreds even) of reefers.

I will say the most common theme seems to be dry rock (especially Pukani. Maybe because it's super popular?) and low nutrients. Dosing nitrates will only help your system. Dosing iron may help your chaeto as well.

 

[240reef]

I hope I'm not coming off as snooty.im just at a cross roads.
I at least know what it is.I've always (prevoius tanks)thought is was cyano and would go way with time not realizing what a plague this stuff really is.
Hoping to find a solution without going through more and more fustration.

 

[240reef]

Ok,so I did a black out for 3 days and have been dosing 30ml peroxide daily since.Rock and sand cleared up very nicely.
After reading and more reading,I'm convinced this tank is nutrient deficient.
My next plan is to slowly add some nitrate with kno3.
Questions I hope someone can help me with.
Should I continue to dose peroxide daily?
If so,any problems adding kno3?
Also will kno3 cause my skimmer to go nuts?
I not trying to make too many sudden changes but doing nothing isn't working either.
Thanks.

 

[Reefer1978]

Should I continue to dose peroxide daily?
If so,any problems adding kno3?
Also will kno3 cause my skimmer to go nuts?

Yep, you can continue peroxide, no issues with both present together. Skimmer will be same as today, you are just adding nitrates.

 

[Reefer1978]

Just wondering, why a blackout? It doesn't to much to the species of Dino's you have.

 

[240reef]

Just wondering, why a blackout? It doesn't to much to the species of Dino's you have.

Thank you for reply.
I figured of all my options,it seemed pretty harmless and easy enough to at least try.
Not sure which one did the trick but looks it pretty good as of today.
I hope small additions of kno3 will tilt cycle to a more healthy balance.
Where I can actually enjoy tank and stop being trying to be God.