Dino microscope ID

Panx · Dec 22, 2020

I've been battling what I believe are dinoflagellates in my Waterbox 20 cube that was set up about 3 months ago. This saga kind of started with some nasty GHA at the beginning of November. I started using Vibrant with my weekly waterchanges and that knocked that out in about a week, but shortly after these brown snotty looking dinos started showing up. They make microfiber strands longer than 1" and create insane amount of bubbles towards the evening time, about 3 or 4 hours before the lights go out.

Trochus snails have started dying and the corals were beginning to get tangled in some of the strands so I started doing some regular heavy duty scrubbings and siphoning and replacing filter pads, in addition to adding a healthy amount of pods (tiger and apex) and began dosing 40 drops of Phytofeast Live daily. It seemed to have a small impact at first, but even after manual removal they are already starting to come back within a day. I also attempted a reduced photo period that didn't seem to work, and also attempted to remove the white light spectrum on my AI prime HD which also didn't appear to work.

Tried a 3-day blackout starting on 12/15 but did not completely block light using a barrier as the tank is in my basement which stays pretty dark most of the time. It had a huge impact on the dinos, by the time it was done they looked like they were eradicated; but sure enough I started seeing signs of them again three days after the blackout ended. The coral and fish did not appear to be too happy with the blackout, I'm hesitant to try it again even though it seemed to be the most effective thing I've tried so far. If I do go that route I'll have to set up a hospital tank to hold the rest of the livestock and then do a 10-day blackout.

Some examples from pics I just took tonight:

The tank is currently sitting at 78.5°F, 1.025 SG, and a pH of 8.42. Nitrate reads ~1 ppm and Phosphate 0.25 ppm. On 12/19 I bought and installed a UV sterilizer (the 9 watt Green Killing Machine), it's been running nonstop since then. I'm thinking at this point my best bet is to stop the weekly water changes and stop dosing vibrant in an attempt to allow some other algae to outcompete the dinos; then try introducing a ton more copepods over the course of a few days while continuing my daily dose the Phytofeast Live.

Anyways, today my $15 Amazon microscope showed up and I had a fun couple of hours exploring all the critters I could find. I pulled out a decent sample of the dinos right from the rock surface where all the bubbles were forming and got a couple pretty good videos of them.

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

As a side note... I got a couple of other cool microscope videos of critters, can anyone identify this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/yNF8a7M2Bm2AVkMq9
or this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bakj6N3nzp4raLn19

Thanks!!!

NeonRabbit221B · Dec 22, 2020

Helping question... Does anyone have that dinos is pdf that delves into location, UV effectiveness, dive and pictures? I lost the link/copy and I keep meaning to find it again.

Microscope pics may not have the magnification as some of the characteristics include shape of the Dino, movement, ect. A reference item for size may help and video of how they move as well.

Jilly92 · Dec 22, 2020

Panx said:
I've been battling what I believe are dinoflagellates in my Waterbox 20 cube that was set up about 3 months ago. This saga kind of started with some nasty GHA at the beginning of November. I started using Vibrant with my weekly waterchanges and that knocked that out in about a week, but shortly after these brown snotty looking dinos started showing up. They make microfiber strands longer than 1" and create insane amount of bubbles towards the evening time, about 3 or 4 hours before the lights go out.

Trochus snails have started dying and the corals were beginning to get tangled in some of the strands so I started doing some regular heavy duty scrubbings and siphoning and replacing filter pads, in addition to adding a healthy amount of pods (tiger and apex) and began dosing 40 drops of Phytofeast Live daily. It seemed to have a small impact at first, but even after manual removal they are already starting to come back within a day. I also attempted a reduced photo period that didn't seem to work, and also attempted to remove the white light spectrum on my AI prime HD which also didn't appear to work.

Tried a 3-day blackout starting on 12/15 but did not completely block light using a barrier as the tank is in my basement which stays pretty dark most of the time. It had a huge impact on the dinos, by the time it was done they looked like they were eradicated; but sure enough I started seeing signs of them again three days after the blackout ended. The coral and fish did not appear to be too happy with the blackout, I'm hesitant to try it again even though it seemed to be the most effective thing I've tried so far. If I do go that route I'll have to set up a hospital tank to hold the rest of the livestock and then do a 10-day blackout.

Some examples from pics I just took tonight:

The tank is currently sitting at 78.5°F, 1.025 SG, and a pH of 8.42. Nitrate reads ~1 ppm and Phosphate 0.25 ppm. On 12/19 I bought and installed a UV sterilizer (the 9 watt Green Killing Machine), it's been running nonstop since then. I'm thinking at this point my best bet is to stop the weekly water changes and stop dosing vibrant in an attempt to allow some other algae to outcompete the dinos; then try introducing a ton more copepods over the course of a few days while continuing my daily dose the Phytofeast Live.

Anyways, today my $15 Amazon microscope showed up and I had a fun couple of hours exploring all the critters I could find. I pulled out a decent sample of the dinos right from the rock surface where all the bubbles were forming and got a couple pretty good videos of them.

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

As a side note... I got a couple of other cool microscope videos of critters, can anyone identify this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/yNF8a7M2Bm2AVkMq9
or this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bakj6N3nzp4raLn19

Thanks!!!

Be careful handling the stuff barehands. I am dealing with the same thing and became ill last week after scrubbing it off the rocks. It gave me headaches, deep shocking pain sensations all down my neck, and a strange coral taste in my mouth.

vetteguy53081 · Dec 22, 2020

3 days not enough. Here is what needs to be done:
Blow loose with a turkey baster. It will capture and clean more surface area. Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5nights. If you dont have light dependant coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

blitzkragz · Dec 22, 2020

My phosphate dropped to zero because my fuge was too effective, and I am now battling a massive dino outbreak as well. No blackouts, but over the last 3 days I have been dosing hydrogen peroxide and microbacter7 every 12 hours, in addition to using Loudwolf sodium nitrate and trisodium phosphate to raise no3 and po4. The dinos seem to be dying back. But I feel your pain.

Panx · Dec 22, 2020

vetteguy53081 said:
3 days not enough. Here is what needs to be done:
Blow loose with a turkey baster. It will capture and clean more surface area. Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5nights. If you dont have light dependant coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Thank you!!!

To confirm, we are talking about standard 3% "brown bottle" H2O2 and NOT the "food safe" kind.... Right?

I would normally add 2 mL of Vibrant to my fresh saltwater during the waterchange, should I skip it this time?

vetteguy53081 · Dec 22, 2020

Panx said:
Thank you!!!

To confirm, we are talking about standard 3% "brown bottle" H2O2 and NOT the "food safe" kind.... Right?

I would normally add 2 mL of Vibrant to my fresh saltwater during the waterchange, should I skip it this time?

Standard 3% yes

jjencek · Dec 23, 2020

Panx said:
I've been battling what I believe are dinoflagellates in my Waterbox 20 cube that was set up about 3 months ago. This saga kind of started with some nasty GHA at the beginning of November. I started using Vibrant with my weekly waterchanges and that knocked that out in about a week, but shortly after these brown snotty looking dinos started showing up. They make microfiber strands longer than 1" and create insane amount of bubbles towards the evening time, about 3 or 4 hours before the lights go out.

Trochus snails have started dying and the corals were beginning to get tangled in some of the strands so I started doing some regular heavy duty scrubbings and siphoning and replacing filter pads, in addition to adding a healthy amount of pods (tiger and apex) and began dosing 40 drops of Phytofeast Live daily. It seemed to have a small impact at first, but even after manual removal they are already starting to come back within a day. I also attempted a reduced photo period that didn't seem to work, and also attempted to remove the white light spectrum on my AI prime HD which also didn't appear to work.

Tried a 3-day blackout starting on 12/15 but did not completely block light using a barrier as the tank is in my basement which stays pretty dark most of the time. It had a huge impact on the dinos, by the time it was done they looked like they were eradicated; but sure enough I started seeing signs of them again three days after the blackout ended. The coral and fish did not appear to be too happy with the blackout, I'm hesitant to try it again even though it seemed to be the most effective thing I've tried so far. If I do go that route I'll have to set up a hospital tank to hold the rest of the livestock and then do a 10-day blackout.

Some examples from pics I just took tonight:

The tank is currently sitting at 78.5°F, 1.025 SG, and a pH of 8.42. Nitrate reads ~1 ppm and Phosphate 0.25 ppm. On 12/19 I bought and installed a UV sterilizer (the 9 watt Green Killing Machine), it's been running nonstop since then. I'm thinking at this point my best bet is to stop the weekly water changes and stop dosing vibrant in an attempt to allow some other algae to outcompete the dinos; then try introducing a ton more copepods over the course of a few days while continuing my daily dose the Phytofeast Live.

Anyways, today my $15 Amazon microscope showed up and I had a fun couple of hours exploring all the critters I could find. I pulled out a decent sample of the dinos right from the rock surface where all the bubbles were forming and got a couple pretty good videos of them.

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Bill Pankau

photos.app.goo.gl

As a side note... I got a couple of other cool microscope videos of critters, can anyone identify this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/yNF8a7M2Bm2AVkMq9
or this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bakj6N3nzp4raLn19

Thanks!!!

I believe your first video also shows some diatoms on the bottom of the slide.

Conovan · Dec 23, 2020

vetteguy53081 said:
3 days not enough. Here is what needs to be done:
Blow loose with a turkey baster. It will capture and clean more surface area. Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5nights. If you dont have light dependant coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

I found out just how important changing my socks daily during my dino outbreak was. One missed change looked like a 3 day setback the next day.

vetteguy53081 · Dec 23, 2020

Conovan said:
I found out just how important changing my socks daily during my dino outbreak was. One missed change looked like a 3 day setback the next day.

You got it- very important, as they have to go somewhere

dwest · Dec 23, 2020

I believe I saw ostreopsis in the first video. A 9 watt UV should take care of them in a 20 gallon tank. Is the UV mounted inside the display tank? You have nitrates and phosphates in the system. I would not add vibrant or phytofeast.

Panx · Dec 23, 2020

dwest said:
I believe I saw ostreopsis in the first video. A 9 watt UV should take care of them in a 20 gallon tank. Is the UV mounted inside the display tank? You have nitrates and phosphates in the system. I would not add vibrant or phytofeast.

Awesome, thanks!! That's good to hear since I went ahead and bought the UV before identifying what type I had!

The UV is mounted in the back part of the tank with the output facing "upstream", same as how I've had my skimmer set up on another tank. I guess this is technically part of the DT, but I'm unsure if I would actually consider this part of the display.

The not adding Vibrant part makes sense to me, I'm believe the goal is to encourage some other form of algae to outcompete the dinos and the Vibrant is killing that other algae off. My guess is you recommend to discontinue my daily dose of Phytofeast because the increased nitrate and phosphate could be feeding the dinos, is that correct?

dwest · Dec 23, 2020

Panx said:
Awesome, thanks!! That's good to hear since I went ahead and bought the UV before identifying what type I had!

The UV is mounted in the back part of the tank with the output facing "upstream", same as how I've had my skimmer set up on another tank. I guess this is technically part of the DT, but I'm unsure if I would actually consider this part of the display.

The not adding Vibrant part makes sense to me, I'm believe the goal is to encourage some other form of algae to outcompete the dinos and the Vibrant is killing that other algae off. My guess is you recommend to discontinue my daily dose of Phytofeast because the increased nitrate and phosphate could be feeding the dinos, is that correct?

I know it might not make sense, but if there is any way to get that UV directly into the main tank area, you might see a difference very quickly. It likely will be an eyesore, but it’s only temporary.

I believe I have read in the main Dino thread or @taricha amphidinium thread that phytoplankton is dino food.

My reference to nitrates and phosphates was that you had measurable amounts. That is good so dosing nitrates and phosphates isn’t likely necessary. Do be sure you are not removing nutrients with gfo, carbon dosing, etc.

Panx · Dec 23, 2020

dwest said:
I know it might not make sense, but if there is any way to get that UV directly into the main tank area, you might see a difference very quickly. It likely will be an eyesore, but it’s only temporary.

I believe I have read in the main Dino thread or @taricha amphidinium thread that phytoplankton is dino food.

My reference to nitrates and phosphates was that you had measurable amounts. That is good so dosing nitrates and phosphates isn’t likely necessary. Do be sure you are not removing nutrients with gfo, carbon dosing, etc.

Haha well the entire fricken tank is an eyesore right now! I'll move the UV into the display portion tonight, I'm guessing it's related to the speed the water is moving near the intake.

I'll also plan to cut out the Phytofeast and continue monitoring NO3 and PO4 to make sure those levels don't drop after stopping.

I also still plan to carry out the process of dosing H2O2 at night and bacteria during day, new filter pads daily, and with reduced light intensity for the next 5 days. Hopefully between all these extra steps I can completely eradicate them and never have to deal with it again!

Appreciate your advice!

Panx · Dec 29, 2020

Ok, quick update time! The 5 days are up and do not detect any presence of dinos anymore!

I'm thinking of taking a couple small suspicious samples under the microscope to be certain. Noticed a few small red patches that look like cyano on my rocks, but they didn't fly away when I turkey basted them. I do have a fresh order of pods on the way, planning to introduce a couple good portions of them over the course of the next couple few nights.

I'm planning to continue fish feedings like normal, but not doing any more coral food or phytofeast for a while though. I also intend to stop the H2O2 and MB7 dosing every 12 hours. Lights are set to acclimate over the next two weeks just the blue, royal blue, purple, and UV back up to 100% from the 15% they've been running at. Plan to continue monitoring for any signs of its return and will be ready to go right back to the 5 day regimen if I see it.

Depending how things go over the next week I may attempt to slowly reintroduce the phytofeast to try to help sustain any pod populations, but will probably not exceed half the dose I was using previously. Microbacter7 could also still prove to be useful for me while things are continuing to stabilize so that could be still on the menu too.

vetteguy53081 · Dec 29, 2020

Panx said:
Ok, quick update time! The 5 days are up and do not detect any presence of dinos anymore!

I'm thinking of taking a couple small suspicious samples under the microscope to be certain. Noticed a few small red patches that look like cyano on my rocks, but they didn't fly away when I turkey basted them. I do have a fresh order of pods on the way, planning to introduce a couple good portions of them over the course of the next couple few nights.

I'm planning to continue fish feedings like normal, but not doing any more coral food or phytofeast for a while though. I also intend to stop the H2O2 and MB7 dosing every 12 hours. Lights are set to acclimate over the next two weeks just the blue, royal blue, purple, and UV back up to 100% from the 15% they've been running at. Plan to continue monitoring for any signs of its return and will be ready to go right back to the 5 day regimen if I see it.

Depending how things go over the next week I may attempt to slowly reintroduce the phytofeast to try to help sustain any pod populations, but will probably not exceed half the dose I was using previously. Microbacter7 could also still prove to be useful for me while things are continuing to stabilize so that could be still on the menu too.

What I did once gone is applied .5ml of peroxide per 10 gals at night for 2 more weeks as an insurance policy

Jilly92 · Dec 30, 2020

Panx said:
Ok, quick update time! The 5 days are up and do not detect any presence of dinos anymore!

I'm thinking of taking a couple small suspicious samples under the microscope to be certain. Noticed a few small red patches that look like cyano on my rocks, but they didn't fly away when I turkey basted them. I do have a fresh order of pods on the way, planning to introduce a couple good portions of them over the course of the next couple few nights.

I'm planning to continue fish feedings like normal, but not doing any more coral food or phytofeast for a while though. I also intend to stop the H2O2 and MB7 dosing every 12 hours. Lights are set to acclimate over the next two weeks just the blue, royal blue, purple, and UV back up to 100% from the 15% they've been running at. Plan to continue monitoring for any signs of its return and will be ready to go right back to the 5 day regimen if I see it.

Depending how things go over the next week I may attempt to slowly reintroduce the phytofeast to try to help sustain any pod populations, but will probably not exceed half the dose I was using previously. Microbacter7 could also still prove to be useful for me while things are continuing to stabilize so that could be still on the menu too.

I just blackout 2 days and slowly reintroduced light into both my dt and frag tank and they haven't came back.