Dino to Cyano to Dino

OpenOcean33

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So like the title says i keep going through the same cycle... Dino to cyano to dino and repeat. This has been going on for two years now. I am having trouble with algae and understanding how to control it. I see dinos and see low nutrients raise the nutrients. Cyano and green hair algae come i let it take its course with just water changes careful not to bottom out nutrients and boom dinos start to creep back in and cyano and green hair die off and repeat. Any advice on how to control this disastrous cycle I am losing hope.
 

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So like the title says i keep going through the same cycle... Dino to cyano to dino and repeat. This has been going on for two years now. I am having trouble with algae and understanding how to control it. I see dinos and see low nutrients raise the nutrients. Cyano and green hair algae come i let it take its course with just water changes careful not to bottom out nutrients and boom dinos start to creep back in and cyano and green hair die off and repeat. Any advice on how to control this disastrous cycle I am losing hope.
Firstly, two years seems like a long time for a problem like this to persist. Can the situation be described as primarily a green hair algae problem and the remedies that are used to rid the GHA cause dinoflagellate and cyanobacteria growth?
 
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OpenOcean33

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Firstly, two years seems like a long time for a problem like this to persist. Can the situation be described as primarily a green hair algae problem and the remedies that are used to rid the GHA cause dinoflagellate and cyanobacteria growth?
So my only remedy for GHA is letting it go away in time ( water changes). slowly the cyano and GHA disappear and dino takes over... I let the tank get "dirty" again and GHA and Cyano are back. I feel like I have no period with no algae. I'm thinking too I need to raise my Phos and Nitrate? my Phos is .04 and Nitrate.25 I see dinos coming back entangling with the withering away GHA and cyano (confirmed under a microscope). I just don't feel like I can get the hang of this to get it under control. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have dug endless hours in the dino thread and feel I have tried it all.
 

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I let the tank get "dirty" again and GHA and Cyano are back. I feel like I have no period with no algae. I'm thinking too I need to raise my Phos and Nitrate? my Phos is .04 and Nitrate.25 I see dinos coming back entangling with the withering away GHA and cyano (confirmed under a microscope). I just don't feel like I can get the hang of this to get it under control. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

In addition to Dan's good question...

A couple of points.
1) I don't think "dirty" is a good shorthand description for elevating inorganic nutrients PO4 / NO3 away from depleted conditions - which is what the dino thread advocates. "dirty" implies overfeeding or cutting export. Overfeeding or dirtying up the tank works rarely and very slowly if ever. Organics certainly seem to keep these nuisances happy.

2) GHA , Dinos, Cyano all occupy similar niche: benthic, photosynthetic, can take advantage of local nutrients. If removing one results in quick replacement by others, that tells you that the niche is still essentially intact.

3) My suspicion is that very few people in the hobby actually grow little or "no algae". Much more common is that they grow algae quickly in the Fuge and export, or they grow algae that is well-controlled by herbivores. And so looks like no algae.
Real reefs grow tons of algae, but the herbivores are constant and voracious.
 
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OpenOcean33

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In addition to Dan's good question...

A couple of points.
1) I don't think "dirty" is a good shorthand description for elevating inorganic nutrients PO4 / NO3 away from depleted conditions - which is what the dino thread advocates. "dirty" implies overfeeding or cutting export. Overfeeding or dirtying up the tank works rarely and very slowly if ever. Organics certainly seem to keep these nuisances happy.

2) GHA , Dinos, Cyano all occupy similar niche: benthic, photosynthetic, can take advantage of local nutrients. If removing one results in quick replacement by others, that tells you that the niche is still essentially intact.

3) My suspicion is that very few people in the hobby actually grow little or "no algae". Much more common is that they grow algae quickly in the Fuge and export, or they grow algae that is well-controlled by herbivores. And so looks like no algae.
Real reefs grow tons of algae, but the herbivores are constant and voracious.
Thank you, so do you suggest dosing the PO4 and NO3 while doing water changes? Instead, of just letting the water "go dirty" Also I agree do you have any recommendations for a good algae eater for a 70-gallon tank ??! I do have a lot of clean up crew bought the 70 gallon package from reef cleaners which has snails and hermits. I think my tank may be "sterile" as well. I have a very little bioload, Maybe driving my levels to drop undetectable. it's a 70 gallon with a flame angel, two clowns, and a jawfish. Also, unfortunately, my tank is a AIO red sea max e260 which i thought was amazing when i first started the hobby and have now found i wish i bout a reefer with a sump because i have no area for a refugium which would be super beneficial.
 

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Thank you, so do you suggest dosing the PO4 and NO3 while doing water changes? Instead, of just letting the water "go dirty" Also I agree do you have any recommendations for a good algae eater for a 70-gallon tank ??! I do have a lot of clean up crew bought the 70 gallon package from reef cleaners which has snails and hermits. I think my tank may be "sterile" as well. I have a very little bioload, Maybe driving my levels to drop undetectable. it's a 70 gallon with a flame angel, two clowns, and a jawfish. Also, unfortunately, my tank is a AIO red sea max e260 which i thought was amazing when i first started the hobby and have now found i wish i bout a reefer with a sump because i have no area for a refugium which would be super beneficial.
I had dinos for at least a year. So far so good now. I do get heavy cayno when my NO3 bottoms out, I jave to dose NO3. My Phosphates are sky high.
 

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Thank you, so do you suggest dosing the PO4 and NO3 while doing water changes? Instead, of just letting the water "go dirty" Also I agree do you have any recommendations for a good algae eater for a 70-gallon tank ??! I do have a lot of clean up crew bought the 70 gallon package from reef cleaners which has snails and hermits. I think my tank may be "sterile" as well. I have a very little bioload, Maybe driving my levels to drop undetectable. it's a 70 gallon with a flame angel, two clowns, and a jawfish. Also, unfortunately, my tank is a AIO red sea max e260 which i thought was amazing when i first started the hobby and have now found i wish i bout a reefer with a sump because i have no area for a refugium which would be super beneficial.

I would encourage you to implement what @taricha is suggesting. Raise your NO3 and PO4 with inorganic sources instead of over feeding or going "dirty" I used sodium nitrate (pharmaceutical grade from Amazon...$14.90 for a 1 lb bag and Seachem Flourish Phosphate for PO4.

Avoid frequent water changes (just dose alkalinity, calcium and magnesium as needed) as high levels of iron in some salt mixes are thought by some to encourage dinos. Maybe @taricha can speak to that.

Hermits are not my favorite to control algae. My tangs are my best algae eaters but not really an option in a tank the size of yours. Trochus, Astrea and turbos snails seem to be more effective for me. Other clean up crew can be used for specific kinds of algae.....for instance, I've found the emerald crabs from Reef Cleaners to consistently eat the dickens out of bubble algae. Hang in there and don't give up. You can win this war!
 

taricha

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also, I think that you'll want a way to directly export the biomass.
without a fuge, strong skimming may not be enough. manual removal, vacuuming etc, will probably be something you find necessary.
 
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OpenOcean33

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I would encourage you to implement what @taricha is suggesting. Raise your NO3 and PO4 with inorganic sources instead of over feeding or going "dirty" I used sodium nitrate (pharmaceutical grade from Amazon...$14.90 for a 1 lb bag and Seachem Flourish Phosphate for PO4.

Avoid frequent water changes (just dose alkalinity, calcium and magnesium as needed) as high levels of iron in some salt mixes are thought by some to encourage dinos. Maybe @taricha can speak to that.

Hermits are not my favorite to control algae. My tangs are my best algae eaters but not really an option in a tank the size of yours. Trochus, Astrea and turbos snails seem to be more effective for me. Other clean up crew can be used for specific kinds of algae.....for instance, I've found the emerald crabs from Reef Cleaners to consistently eat the dickens out of bubble algae. Hang in there and don't give up. You can win this war!
Thank you, I did order some stuff to dose nitrate and phosphate, will slow the water changes. I use the hermits to mostly catch anything thebfish may miss food wise and snails to mow down the rocks. I would love to have a tang, but defebutly not an option for me... maybe a lawnmower blenny !
 
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also, I think that you'll want a way to directly export the biomass.
without a fuge, strong skimming may not be enough. manual removal, vacuuming etc, will probably be something you find necessary.
Or maybe a nice upgrade to aquire a sump . Also I will defenitly give it a go , I'm willing to try anything.
 
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OpenOcean33

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So I just wanted to add, I did retest today with hanna checkers and got .07pmm phospahte and 0ppm Nitrate. I do have cyano and some green hair alage. I am assuming they are consuming alot before it can be tested. So is it still a good idea to dose neonitrate and neo phos to maybe .1 phos and 10 nitrate??
 

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some green hair alage.
I finally figured out I was changing too much water too often. Similar situation as you. Trying to get rid of algae. Gave myself Dino. I added an urchin and a few more snails to eat the algae. Added Nephos to bring up Po4 from a constant 0 on a Hanna.


How much water and how often? a picture of exactly how much hair algae there is would help too
3) My suspicion is that very few people in the hobby actually grow little or "no algae". Much more common is that they grow algae quickly in the Fuge and export, or they grow algae that is well-controlled by herbivores. And so looks like no algae.
Real reefs grow tons of algae, but the herbivores are constant and voracious.
This realization has helped me tremendously. Coral and alga need the same nutrition.
 
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OpenOcean33

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So as far as this weekend goes, i do not need to do a water change as my nutrients are way too low, but my brain says it's been two weeks it's time for a water change. I have a 70-gallon tank and I do about 15 to 20% water changes every two weeks. I have not added any new coral until i can get this algae under better control. Also, the picture i feel doesn't show how bad it really is. Also, that also helped me a lot with @taricha statement i just need to get some more animals to control the algae i will grow. Right now I have a mix of GHA, Cyano, and bits of dino strings on the tippy top.
 

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saltyhog

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So I just wanted to add, I did retest today with hanna checkers and got .07pmm phospahte and 0ppm Nitrate. I do have cyano and some green hair alage. I am assuming they are consuming alot before it can be tested. So is it still a good idea to dose neonitrate and neo phos to maybe .1 phos and 10 nitrate??

Yes, I would definitely dose. Those are good target numbers as well.
 
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OpenOcean33

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Ok So i have started dosing yesterday. I have my new levels after day 1. Phosphate .05 and Nitrate 0.65. How fast can i dose nitrate to target level? I dont want to go to fast just curious of a good timeline to get to 10ppm
 

iury Zardo

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Hi guys, thanks OpenOcean33 to open this discussion. So I'm run at the same problem at this moment, 0 nitrate 0 phosphate an a lot of Dino and little of cyano, I never try to fight with this but now its a disaster. I have 55g tank
 

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