Dinoflagellate in a HIGH nutrient tank? Really? How do I treat THAT?

[ScottB]

So the microscope confirms ostreopsis.

Don’t ask me how I know. I don’t want to talk about it.

This is in a 220g fish only that has nitrates of 80 and phosphates over 1. Not a typo.

I know the standard protocol as described by @taricha and @dwest and @mcarroll.

Will fire up the UV but nitrate and phosphate already are through the roof.

what the heck do I do with this? Obviously no coral to kill and fish don’t care but this is a store tank and should not be unsightly.

 

[dwest]

So the microscope confirms ostreopsis.

Don’t ask me how I know. I don’t want to talk about it.

This is in a 220g fish only that has nitrates of 80 and phosphates over 1. Not a typo.

I know the standard protocol as described by @taricha and @dwest and @mcarroll.

Will fire up the UV but nitrate and phosphate already are through the roof.

what the heck do I do with this? Obviously no coral to kill and fish don’t care but this is a store tank and should not be unsightly.

Sorry about this.

I had dinos once back in the day with high nutrient levels. Back then, I didn’t have a microscope to ID them. I remember I replaced 1/2 my sand bed one month, then the second 1/2 the next month. They went away soon after that. Do fire up the UV. I would also add some live rock rubble if you can get your hands on some. I’m interested in hearing others about this.

 

[Aquanautical]

3 day blackout with uv blasting should be the first attack, I am at the tail end of ostreopsis and the raised nutrient method did not help, UV was required

 

[taricha]

Don’t ask me how I know. I don’t want to talk about it.

This is in a 220g fish only that has nitrates of 80 and phosphates over 1. Not a typo.

So, just to confirm here. The theory of raising nutrients is not that dinos can't grow in elevated nutrients. Obviously they can and do. It's that elevated nutrients are more friendly to other organisms, and the dinos don't have an advantage like they do under low nutrient conditions.

Store tank? UV + short blackout (3 days not needed - just trying to push into the water.) if needed. If the bloom is persistent, and you don't want to build a resilient ecosystem because it's a store tank, I might look into an oxydator or ozone and adjust until things look good.

 

[Jdubs]

I had a Dino outbreak and treated with Dino X. Got rid of it completely but then came back after a couple of days. Then I read to add chaeto. After I added chaeto to the fuge it went away and has not come back. My nutrients weren’t as high as yours but it’s worth a try. The chaeto outcompetes the Dino’s is what I read. My only problem now is I’ve got a cyano problem.

 

[ScottB]

OK thanks all for the input; makes sense to me. The blackout will be kinda tough but we will come up with something. UV pretty straightforward; my guess is the bulb is burned out.

A couple other potentially contributing factors:
This time of year, that tank takes direct evening sun. The dinos seem to like that. The shaded part has less of it.
That direct sun was also heating the tank to 83ish. Jammed a chiller into the cabinet just the other day for a steady 78 now.
I learned that one of the staff treated the tank with red slime remover for cyano just before the dino breakout.

I don't work on the fish systems much personally, but when I saw the dinos... well just pitching in.

Proposed action plan:
Review UV size versus tank volume 1 watt / 3 gallons. Repair or replace.
Impose a blackout -- will 36 hours make a difference?
Once the tank is back under control, clean/replace gravel substrate.

Then go real slow in bringing down NO3 & PO4 to 10 / .1 and no lower. Probably with carbon dosing and a spot of GFO. Unless I hear a strong warning against.

Thanks folks for the help!

 

[dwest]

OK thanks all for the input; makes sense to me. The blackout will be kinda tough but we will come up with something. UV pretty straightforward; my guess is the bulb is burned out.

A couple other potentially contributing factors:
This time of year, that tank takes direct evening sun. The dinos seem to like that. The shaded part has less of it.
That direct sun was also heating the tank to 83ish. Jammed a chiller into the cabinet just the other day for a steady 78 now.
I learned that one of the staff treated the tank with red slime remover for cyano just before the dino breakout.

I don't work on the fish systems much personally, but when I saw the dinos... well just pitching in.

Proposed action plan:
Review UV size versus tank volume 1 watt / 3 gallons. Repair or replace.
Impose a blackout -- will 36 hours make a difference?
Once the tank is back under control, clean/replace gravel substrate.

Then go real slow in bringing down NO3 & PO4 to 10 / .1 and no lower. Probably with carbon dosing and a spot of GFO. Unless I hear a strong warning against.

Thanks folks for the help!

I’m not in the blackout camp...but I might be in the minority. Your plan sounds good. UV should knock them back.

 

[ADAM]

Dr Tim’s treatment method and additives worked well for me a year or so ago. Good luck.

 

[ScottB]

Dr Tim’s treatment method and additives worked well for me a year or so ago. Good luck.

Ohhh. A year without dinos. I do look forward to that. Cheers Adam.

Which Tim’s products worked for you btw?

 

[ScottB]

I’m not in the blackout camp...but I might be in the minority. Your plan sounds good. UV should knock them back.

Also thinking about your rubble comment. We have plenty around and the wet/dry filtration on that system feels... well that is not a method I am familiar with.

I have enough now to get moving. Cabinet sump space will make this interesting.

 

[dwest]

Also thinking about your rubble comment. We have plenty around and the wet/dry filtration on that system feels... well that is not a method I am familiar with.

I have enough now to get moving. Cabinet sump space will make this interesting.

My first tank had a wet dry system. They are very efficient at converting ammonia into nitrates. So most of us ran with high nitrates. In the late 90’s I added liverock, the removed my wet dry. Good luck with the system.

 

[ADAM]

Ohhh. A year without dinos. I do look forward to that. Cheers Adam.

Which Tim’s products worked for you btw?

It was the WasteAway and Refresh products. Google - Dr Tim’s Dino’s and you should find the directions on dosing amount and schedule pretty quick.

 

[ScottB]

My first tank had a wet dry system. They are very efficient at converting ammonia into nitrates. So most of us ran with high nitrates. In the late 90’s I added liverock, the removed my wet dry. Good luck with the system.

Yeah, I guess that's why he still runs it; just to safely convert a ton of waste. Tank has large groupers, puffers, triggers, tangs and wolffish.

Once I get past the dinos, I'll start on the nutrient reduction. Otherwise we will just be going back/forth with cyano.

Thanks all.

 

[ADAM]

Found the directions to the Dr Tims dosing schedule. On BRS site at the bottom of the description for Waste Away there’s a link for the directions.

 

[ScottB]

Pleased to report that once I got new bulb running in the Aqua UV, and did a 2 day blackout, the ostreopsis is gone. Clean for 4 days now. Easy peasy.
Thanks all!

 

[bar|none]

36 hr blackout + UV did it for me + adding cleanup crew after dinos were beat back and algae was coming back.

Oh and blackout includes the fuge if you have one.

 

[saltyhog]

Great to hear @ScottB ! What red slime remover did you use? Interested because my dinos started after using Chemiclean for a minor case of cyano.

 

[ScottB]

Great to hear @ScottB ! What red slime remover did you use? Interested because my dinos started after using Chemiclean for a minor case of cyano.

Thanks. That tank was an eyesore for a while. Glad to have it back looking clear & clean.

It was not Chemiclean they used, but the UltraLife red slime remover. Three days later was a massive dino outbreak.

 

[TriggerFan]

Scott:

I am just starting the battle against dino (Although my tank is just 3.5 months old). I asked my LFS to order a UV over a week ago, but for some reason, it has not arrived. The slimy red algae are really taking over my FOWLR tank, so I just brushed off my rock and tried to suction as much as I could. I do not have a syphon yet, so I will order one of the Python systems (100 ft) ASAP.

This morning I made sure no lights were on and someone suggested Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter7.
Did you just use UB and blackout, no chemical treatment?

 

[ScottB]

If you can get a good picture under white light (not blue) and share it we can start to diagnose. Slimy red algae may be cyanobacteria instead. Often, the two play together, as in this photo:

https://content.invisioncic.com/Mnanoreef/monthly_2018_07/20180713_213626.jpg.f22121a6d17f01eabe6b6fa3d0346207.jpg

The stringy brown stuff is dinos. The red matted stuff is cyano. I don't have a ton of experience with cyano, but it is generally associated with excess nutrient (fish waste), light and limited flow. Reversing each of those a bit and it should pass. Dinos are whole different story, and treatment depends on the species of dino, but generally calls for blackout, UV and dosing nitrates, phosphates and sometimes silicates. Oh, the irony.

I am not sure UV will help with cyano, but a UV is always good to have on hand (if not in use) to kill nasty things in the water column like algaes, dinos, parasites.