Dinoflagellate in a HIGH nutrient tank? Really? How do I treat THAT?

[vetteguy53081]

@ScottB:

Which No3 and Po4 would you recommend to dose? While looking around I found a post from Randy: (Phosphorus Link) but I am not sure this is it.

You DONT want to use any NO3PO4 product for dino as it is a fuel for dino growth. Use peroxide and bacteria supplement such as Bacter 7

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

I know nothing about planted tanks, but gas bubbles in marine tanks are no bueno signs IME.

I know a painful amount about ostreopsis and these latest pics look too familiar for comfort. IF IT IS ostreopsis, I know all too well how to resolve. It is not that bad actually. The other species are a bit more work apparently.

@Darth.Daddy12 I know nothing about bubble scrubbing and cannot find anything on this site about it so please provide some links about this method and outcomes for procentrum, amphidinium, coolia and ostreopsis dinoflagellates. Easily a thousand people are looking for easier tools for dealing with these species. A single method that fits all would be glorious.

Sorry @TriggerFan but I have increased conviction now about dinos given the pics. Get the microscope, the UV (1 watt per 3 gallons, slow flow) and prepare for dosing NO3 and PO4. I may have linked this Dino thread before, not sure. There are almost 7,900 posts to it, so, you are in good company. The beginning pages lay out the ID and treatment suggestions pretty well.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

Micro Scrubbing Bubbles Is the title from a 2017 r2f thread that’s 64 pages long with links to several other r2r threads in the reading.

 

[ScottB]

@ScottB:

Which No3 and Po4 would you recommend to dose? While looking around I found a post from Randy: (Phosphorus Link) but I am not sure this is it.

Yes, that will work. Loudwolf also makes NaNO3 (sodium nitrite) that I used. In fact I still dose both a tiny amount every day to maintain steady and measurable nutrients in one system. HOWEVER, I strongly encourage you to ID the type of dinoflagellates before doing anything beyond hooking up a UV.

So now it looks like you have at least three different methods proposed to battle dinos (if confirmed). If you have ostreopsis, I can vouch for the efficacy of this method: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

If it is a different type of dinos, I don't have first hand experience but the anecdotal outcomes in that thread are fairly compelling -- amphidium being the more difficult of the bunch.

My recommendation:
a) identify which (if any) dino you have
b) research at least the last three methods (there are more methods)
c) Choose ONE method that you are most comfortable with and post to THAT thread. If you can figure out who seems to be the "authority" in that thread with some history on it, you might wish to overweight their input. In my case it was @taricha and @dwest among others. You are welcome to tag me as well. If it is ostreo, I have 2 wins, no losses, more wrinkles.

 

[TriggerFan]

Thanks for the valuable input. I have just ordered the microscope you linked and will start the process from there on and post in the respective thread.

Apologies for temporarily hi-jacking your thread.

 

[dwest]

Thanks for the valuable input. I have just ordered the microscope you linked and will start the process from there on and post in the respective thread.

Apologies for temporarily hi-jacking your thread.

Great advice from Scott. ID them, keep nitrates and phosphates measurable and then we can deal with them.

 

[PanchoG]

3 day blackout with uv blasting should be the first attack, I am at the tail end of ostreopsis and the raised nutrient method did not help, UV was required

+1

 

[ScottB]

Micro Scrubbing Bubbles Is the title from a 2017 r2f thread that’s 64 pages long with links to several other r2r threads in the reading.

Thanks, I did find that thread using your text string. Got through the first 4 and last 4 pages. This is the Elegance Coral method which I have read before. The micro bubbles are part of a larger treatment protocol IIRC. I like the bubble part theoretically. Other parts of it I don't like... adding bacteria, then reversing with H2O2, back and forth, back and forth. When my system is unhappy, the last thing I am comfortable with is adding volatility.

Sadly, the thread got quite contentious and is shut down for comments.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Thanks, I did find that thread using your text string. Got through the first 4 and last 4 pages. This is the Elegance Coral method which I have read before. The micro bubbles are part of a larger treatment protocol IIRC. I like the bubble part theoretically. Other parts of it I don't like... adding bacteria, then reversing with H2O2, back and forth, back and forth. When my system is unhappy, the last thing I am comfortable with is adding volatility.

Sadly, the thread got quite contentious and is shut down for comments.

Keep in mind this was 2 years ago when this was more unknown. Think about it from a logical standpoint if you’re turning your entire tank into a skimmer. What’s a skimmer do in the sump? Adds air the water to remove organics. Same this is true regardless of where or how it’s implemented. Not only does it have the ability to capture organic proteins but also algea spores.

I’d advise you to do further research on this including watching videos from Arron’s aquarium (as to how to properly implement) as well as fish of hex who uses this method to directly target areas of the tank when cleaning and doing water changes.

I’ve never had Dino so I can’t directly speak to the effectiveness of using bubble scrubbing as a cure all. That’s said doing this combined with a blackout period would be my first course of action should this happen in one of my tanks.

That said it’s a great preventive solution to many common issues the same as simple water changes.

Coming from partial planted tank background I can 100% understand how this works. Planted tanks always are fighting algae issues. In a planted tank the most common solution to this it to dose co2 gases. This has a reverse effect by yielding a larger o2 exchange keeping PH stable as well as preventing algae’s.

This bubble scrubbing is no different. Only difference is instead of adding co2 to create greater o2 exchange your adding o2 but basic principles are the same results.

Now onto a bit more antidotal personal viewpoints. Are we now adaus not cleaning household things with either cleaners that claim to have “scrubbing bubbles” or further more by actually using bubbles or pressurized steam? Why is this? Cause air bubbles have a natural negative charge in water. Nutrients have a natural positive charge. What happens when positive and negative meet? They are attracted to each other.

Let’s dive a bit deeper. When you wash dishes with soap are Thier soapy bubbles? How about your hair? Why is this? Why does one soap work better then another? There is two ways to remove something and that’s chemiclly or physically. Soaps do both. Spending on the type or the soil needing addressed it can either chemically break down a substance like soap does to oils, or it can attached to them physically and lift them from the surface. Many times both which is why a sink full of dishes and soap has oilly residue on the top.

Ok let’s loom further at the aquarium hobby and what we do know.. we have things like Zeolight and Poly filter lads that claim “ion charges” to remove things from the water. One would even look at purigen or chemipure products with the same regard. The cfact is even basic carbon is covered by this. So how do this work? Same principle.. negatively charged ions are impregnated into the substance to attract positively charged things to stick to them. Depending on what sticks the most that item may even change colors and tell you what it’s removing.

Now let’s look at Dino and what does this have to do with it other then there are quite a few reputable people recently reporting that this works.. let’s assume we understand how this can work to remove excessive nutrients but how does that apply to Dino or any other algea? It’s simple. A plant can’t live wo two things same as many creatures. Energy source and food. Plants need two things and that’s a good source (we are removing by scubbing) and light in order to photosynthesis that food into anything useful. However we also know that bubbles can lift small particles and help to remove them from the tank. Spores are small enough to be able to be captured by 1-2-3-4 nano bubbles until this happens. You are now winning a 3 front battle. You’re eliminating food source, eliminating lighting and at the same time removing the plants ability to reproduce.

So it’s at this point that I ask. What do you have to lose? Few hundred dollars or thousands or dollars in stock vs using a $29 air pump most of us already have laying in a box somewhere and a $3 air stone placed in the return of your sump or under a powerhead in the display.

Water water treatment plants and cleaning companies have been sung the same tech for many many years.. why this is so controversial in this hobby baffles my mind. It’s too simple and logical to not try it before buying things marketed for such purposes, or trying other claimed approaches. What’s the worst that happens? You stabilized your PH better and have better o2 levels in your water.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks for the valuable input. I have just ordered the microscope you linked and will start the process from there on and post in the respective thread.

Apologies for temporarily hi-jacking your thread.

I don't think I ever saw you pop up in the main "Are you tired" dino thread. Did you cruise through the dinos pretty swiftly?
What species and which method did you use?