Dinoflagellate in a HIGH nutrient tank? Really? How do I treat THAT?

[motortrendz]

Great to hear @ScottB ! What red slime remover did you use? Interested because my dinos started after using Chemiclean for a minor case of cyano.

Funny you say that, bc I used chemiclean for some red slime as well destroyed the red slime tank looked good for about 3 days and boom dinos. I did have a low nutrient issue. So I'm guessing by whipping out the red slime it gave way to allow the dinos to explode. Fixing my nutrient issue got rid of them.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

So the microscope confirms ostreopsis.

Don’t ask me how I know. I don’t want to talk about it.

This is in a 220g fish only that has nitrates of 80 and phosphates over 1. Not a typo.

I know the standard protocol as described by @taricha and @dwest and @mcarroll.

Will fire up the UV but nitrate and phosphate already are through the roof.

what the heck do I do with this? Obviously no coral to kill and fish don’t care but this is a store tank and should not be unsightly.

Look into bubble scrubbing as it seems to be taking hold as the one new sure fire method of removing all types of Dino.

Interesting that this happened as I was just debating with another the other night that maybe corals were expelling Dino when stressed which is where we get Dino in low nutrient tanks as until now is never heard of a high nutrient Fowler ever having this issue.! Well there goes my theory!

 

[TriggerFan]

Here you go. Please note this is after about 36 hour of lights being turned off (Not an actual full blackout) and some MicroBacter7. I am not seeing air bubbles in the rock, just a few on the overflow and sandbed.

Most of the red algae are gone (I guess since I scrubbed it off the rock, they were collected in the filer socks I cleaned last night). I still see brown algae in the rock and all over the cleaning crew and frag plugs. Sandbed is full of it (Which I admit might be from some overfeeding, but I have since corrected it).

I ordered a Pyhton no spill clean and fill (75 ft) to suction my sandbed and remove as much detritus as possible. I hope to receive my Pentair Aquatics 40watt UV Sterilizer this week and once I get this algae/dino issue under control, figure out how to install a ClariSea 5000 in both of my RedSea 750XXL tanks.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Here you go. Please note this is after about 36 hour of lights being turned off (Not an actual full blackout) and some MicroBacter7. I am not seeing air bubbles in the rock, just a few on the overflow and sandbed.

Most of the red algae are gone (I guess since I scrubbed it off the rock, they were collected in the filer socks I cleaned last night). I still see brown algae in the rock and all over the cleaning crew and frag plugs. Sandbed is full of it (Which I admit might be from some overfeeding, but I have since corrected it).

I ordered a Pyhton no spill clean and fill (75 ft) to suction my sandbed and remove as much detritus as possible. I hope to receive my Pentair Aquatics 40watt UV Sterilizer this week and once I get this algae/dino issue under control, figure out how to install a ClariSea 5000 in both of my RedSea 750XXL tanks.

No python over 25’ will have any suction for anything more then water changes it takes me hours to do a 125g with a 50ft one. If you want to suction the bed you’ll have to use a regular device.

 

[ScottB]

Good pics; hopefully we get some good eyes on this from the crowd.

Personally, I don't think this is all dino, if any. I don't really see cyano, but the cleaning, MB7 and lights out must have done some good. The stuff on the rock looks like algae that is... unhappy. Question #1: Was that healthy GHA before?

In the sand is more suspicious, although MOST varieties of dinos dissipate into the water without lighting and it would appear this has not. I believe amphidium is the one that stays in the sand so that is a possibility. I'll tag @taricha to get his thoughts of whether or not this warrants a deeper examination/ID on dinos. I can smell ostreopsis a mile away, but this does not fit IMHO.

Only way to confirm dinos is to take a snotty sample (with some tank water) and view it under a microscope. Here is the one I bought but let's see what the dino ID authorities have to say first.



Question # 2 after having maybe "overfed" the tank, might you have been "starving" it since then? Any GFO in use?

Question # 3 are you measuring nitrate & phosphate? Results?

Question #4 what phosphate test kit/checker? Buy Hanna ULR Phosphate immediately given your investment level already.

Question #5 when was tank set up and mix of live vs dead rock, etc?

Sorry all the questions, but if the clever folks are following you are going to get asked. With honest answers you can get some good guidance here. Kinda how it works.

Lastly, holy mother of God! 2 X 750 XXL!!!! @TriggerFan is invested in the hobby. Time to grind it out.

PS: I will be AWOL tomorrow taking my only baby girl back to college (Senior Year!) so old hands please step in.

 

[TriggerFan]

1) Regarding the siphon - Dang I thought it would work. I bought the faucet adapter and connected a hose to 1/4" RO adapter and I used 80ft to siphon detritus but with that small diameter, it was a pain. It took about an hour and my back was killing me. I thought the kit would work the same if not better.
I'll see if I can cancel the order from BRS.

2) GHA was indeed healthy before and the water was pristine. Much better than the reef tank.

3) After overfeeding, I started feeding three times a day small portions, BUT this time I grabbed a plastic bottle dispenser and mixed RO water with Reef Frenzy, with SulfaPlex, MetroPlex, KanaPlex, Focus and Selcon to make sure the fish were healthy.

4) I am using RedSea test kit. It's been 4 or 5 days I have not checked for Nitrates & Phosphate. I will test as soon as I finish writing this post and provide results. I do have Hannah checkers for other parameters though (Alk, Cal, Copper, Salinity). I will buy the phosphate tester tomorrow after work.

5) Both tanks were setup early May this year. CaribSea dry LifeRock and CaribSea live Arg sand. I used Fritz Turbostart 900 for bacteria.

6) I may have spoken too soon from the hip. After a few hours once I powered the lights back Today, the air bubbles are back trapped in algae.

No worries with the questions. I understand you should collect as many facts and information as possible in order to provide an accurate diagnostic. And yes.... I gave up two other hobbies and sold a few related things to fund these two aquariums. Luckily the wife loves it as much (if not more than I do) so she is fully aware of the costs involved. I just need to be careful with this addiction. LOL

I want to thank you all for the help in advance!

*UPDATE*

Nitrate: 0

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

1) Regarding the siphon - Dang I thought it would work. I bought the faucet adapter and connected a hose to 1/4" RO adapter and I used 80ft to siphon detritus but with that small diameter, it was a pain. It took about an hour and my back was killing me. I thought the kit would work the same if not better.
I'll see if I can cancel the order from BRS.

2) GHA was indeed healthy before and the water was pristine. Much better than the reef tank.

3) After overfeeding, I started feeding three times a day small portions, BUT this time I grabbed a plastic bottle dispenser and mixed RO water with Reef Frenzy, with SulfaPlex, MetroPlex, KanaPlex, Focus and Selcon to make sure the fish were healthy.

4) I am using RedSea test kit. It's been 4 or 5 days I have not checked for Nitrates & Phosphate. I will test as soon as I finish writing this post and provide results. I do have Hannah checkers for other parameters though (Alk, Cal, Copper, Salinity). I will buy the phosphate tester tomorrow after work.

5) Both tanks were setup early May this year. CaribSea dry LifeRock and CaribSea live Arg sand. I used Fritz Turbostart 900 for bacteria.
6) I may have spoken too soon from the hip. After a few hours once I powered the lights back Today, the air bubbles are back trapped in algae.

No worries with the questions. I understand you should collect as many facts and information as possible in order to provide an accurate diagnostic. And yes.... I gave up two other hobbies and sold a few related things to fund these two aquariums. Luckily the wife loves it as much (if not more than I do) so she is fully aware of the costs involved. I just need to be careful with this addiction. LOL

I want to thank you all for the help in advance!

*UPDATE*

Nitrate: 0

Air on algae doesn’t mean Dino... if you have good lighting your algae will pearl.. this is common is planted aquariums and I have it in my fuge 24/7 from cheato. Pearling is a sign of a healthy happy aquatic plant.

As for Dino look Into bubble scrubbing as it seems to be the new cats meow for removing Dino no matter what kind.

 

[TriggerFan]

Let's see how these photos look. You can see the air bubbles I am speaking about.
Also, any other way to get rid of the algae in the sandbed besides siphoning?
If not, do I need to get the one with the manual pump?

Someone else asked which lights and settings I am using. 3 x Radion G4 Pros at 75 %
Red & Green = 4 (I changed to 0 this morning)
Blues & V = 100
UV = 99
Whites = 10

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Let's see how these photos look. You can see the air bubbles I am speaking about.
Also, any other way to get rid of the algae in the sandbed besides siphoning?
If not, do I need to get the one with the manual pump?

Someone else asked which lights and settings I am using. 3 x Radion G4 Pros at 75 %
Red & Green = 4 (I changed to 0 this morning)
Blues & V = 100
UV = 99
Whites = 10

From this pics I wouldn’t even worry about the algae on the rocks lol.. that’s normal in even the cleanest tanks around. Anyone says they don’t have a little green in Thier rocks where there isn’t corals or corralline is lying. There isn’t anything wrong with that at all. Long as it stays like that and doesn’t get excessive then that’s just part of the game till you get input and export ratios dialed in.

That also doesn’t look like Dino to me that looks more like normal gha pearling

I kniw is you said this was examined blah blah blah.. this isn’t excessive and the bubbles as slread as they are looks like pearling not Dino. Got any shots of some on the sand?

 

[TriggerFan]

Well, It was a LOT worse than this. As mentioned in my first post, I brushed off large chunks of algae from the rock and suctioned as much as I could with a turkey baster and then the four filter socks collected the rest.

Today this looks much better, but nowhere near how it was before where it was pristine. Also, I worry how to get the sandbed cleaner as algae are all over it. My reef tank with the same rock and sand does not look like this at all.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Well, It was a LOT worse than this. As mentioned in my first post, I brushed off large chunks of algae from the rock and suctioned as much as I could with a turkey baster and then the four filter socks collected the rest.

Today this looks much better, but nowhere near how it was before where it was pristine. Also, I worry how to get the sandbed cleaner as algae are all over it. My reef tank with the same rock and sand does not look like this at all.

Pics of any one the sandbed?

 

[TriggerFan]

Here you go

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

See here the deal.. pearling on plants is a sign of the plants creating lot of o2. This is what the bubbles you see are.. these only exist in tanks with high co2 and low o2 rates.. Dino or not this comes down to aquatic plants 101 and I’ve kept many of freshwater planted tanks.. in planted tanks people love to see pearling as it’s a sign of a healthy plant..

There is an easy way to prevent this and it’s my option this is why the bubble scrubbing works. Increase o2 in the water.. it’s that simple.. drop in a couple wooden air stones and run them 24/7. Plants typically only Pearl in the am after lighting turns on.

Reduce lighting while adding oxygen to the water.. it’s simple chemistry.. every see Dino in a sumo? I haven’t. Question is why. It’s cause the sump is super oxygen rich and doesn’t have the same lighting as a display.

If running a skimmer turn it up to wet skim. Add air stones to the tank and reduce lighting.. if it’s algae or Dino pearling it will reside from this. Want to kill a plant then remove co2 and add as much o2 as you can while staging it of lighting.. this is t a saltwater tank problem this is a planted tank issue.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

San bed confirms my theory.. o2 levels reduce as depth in the tank increases. There is t any pearling at the sand bed..

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Add air stones and reduce to 4h lighting periods.. remove what you can physically. Within 2 weeks you’ll have a clean tank.

 

[vetteguy53081]

No python over 25’ will have any suction for anything more then water changes it takes me hours to do a 125g with a 50ft one. If you want to suction the bed you’ll have to use a regular device.

I use Python in a 660g tank. You want to siphon via gravity, not attached to sink. Sink has very little pulling pressure however the gravity method pulls like a magnet

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

I have zero experience with Dino but can work a planted tank 10 ways till Sunday.. this is simple plant chemistry to me and I know understand why people are bubble scrubbing to get rid of this..

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Want to kill a plant in a tank.. starve it of lighting while reducing co2 and increasing o2... its that simple.

 

[ScottB]

I know nothing about planted tanks, but gas bubbles in marine tanks are no bueno signs IME.

I know a painful amount about ostreopsis and these latest pics look too familiar for comfort. IF IT IS ostreopsis, I know all too well how to resolve. It is not that bad actually. The other species are a bit more work apparently.

@Darth.Daddy12 I know nothing about bubble scrubbing and cannot find anything on this site about it so please provide some links about this method and outcomes for procentrum, amphidinium, coolia and ostreopsis dinoflagellates. Easily a thousand people are looking for easier tools for dealing with these species. A single method that fits all would be glorious.

Sorry @TriggerFan but I have increased conviction now about dinos given the pics. Get the microscope, the UV (1 watt per 3 gallons, slow flow) and prepare for dosing NO3 and PO4. I may have linked this Dino thread before, not sure. There are almost 7,900 posts to it, so, you are in good company. The beginning pages lay out the ID and treatment suggestions pretty well.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

 

[TriggerFan]

@ScottB:

Which No3 and Po4 would you recommend to dose? While looking around I found a post from Randy: (Phosphorus Link) but I am not sure this is it.