Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[JAMSOURY]

I’m going to move some of my frags to another tank. To avoid transferring the Dino, will a good coral dip kill off the Dino?

 

[Paullawr]

This has been my question in the last 2 posts. I do not want to leave behind all of the livestock when I move to the tank build I am working on. I will have some time as the new tank cycles but if I can dose or dip bleach based on previous posts with success and I can bring corals and fish to new home and start dino free then I have to try it. I am NO way condoning this as a method and everyone has to make their own choice. If there is a shred of evidence with success I will research further to minimize the risk to the fish and coral and maximize the effectiveness in a 6 month amphinidium fight. Currently GHA is all over the live rock and NO3 & PO4 have held steady at 25 and .8 for over a month.

There is a thread on here which was an offshoot of the other dino thread that explored this.

Its not something I've ever tried myself but it showed as being successful on the thread. I even followed up a year later and was still free of the pest in their frag tank.

 

[Paullawr]

This has been my question in the last 2 posts. I do not want to leave behind all of the livestock when I move to the tank build I am working on. I will have some time as the new tank cycles but if I can dose or dip bleach based on previous posts with success and I can bring corals and fish to new home and start dino free then I have to try it. I am NO way condoning this as a method and everyone has to make their own choice. If there is a shred of evidence with success I will research further to minimize the risk to the fish and coral and maximize the effectiveness in a 6 month amphinidium fight. Currently GHA is all over the live rock and NO3 & PO4 have held steady at 25 and .8 for over a month.

Here you go.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinos-bleach-testing.285887/

 

[Paullawr]

I’m going to move some of my frags to another tank. To avoid transferring the Dino, will a good coral dip kill off the Dino?

No commercial dip will work nor will Bayers for example.

 

[taricha]

If you are going to transfer organisms and want best chance of preventing dinos spread with a lower level of livestock stress, I'd go with a few seconds (less than 10) of shaking in a freshwater dip.
It'll instantly lyse cells of every dino I've tried except prorocentrum cysts. If you were patient, you could dip, holding tank with good nutrients and light for a week to convince cells to come out of cyst, then dip again.
It's not 100% effective but 98% is much better odds than 0%

 

[Beardo]

If you are going to transfer organisms and want best chance of preventing dinos spread with a lower level of livestock stress, I'd go with a few seconds (less than 10) of shaking in a freshwater dip.
It'll instantly lyse cells of every dino I've tried except prorocentrum cysts. If you were patient, you could dip, holding tank with good nutrients and light for a week to convince cells to come out of cyst, then dip again.
It's not 100% effective but 98% is much better odds than 0%

I brought small cell amphidunium over after doing a low salinity dip (not straight freshwater but 1.008 -1.009 sg) followed by diluted peroxide dip. Also noticed coolia cysts which I believe were still viable afterwards as well.
I tried straight freshwater as well and it seemed to work better but it killed the acros I tried it on with a 30 second dip. Your 10 seconds or less is good advice, though LPS and zoas can handle longer.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I spoke with another reefer recently that said he added large amounts of phyto to his dino infested tank. He said his water was green but his Dino's went away in about 2 weeks.

 

[Paullawr]

I spoke with another reefer recently that said he added large amounts of phyto to his dino infested tank. He said his water was green but his Dino's went away in about 2 weeks.

That's quite interesting.

 

[reeferfoxx]

That's quite interesting.

It sort of makes sense when you think about it. If we add small doses of phyto or nutrients to the tank, Dino's get worse. You could assess the results as a negative one based on that but adding large amounts is achieving both food for fauna, Flora, and nutrients.

 

[taricha]

I brought small cell amphidunium over after doing a low salinity dip (not straight freshwater but 1.008 -1.009 sg) followed by diluted peroxide dip. Also noticed coolia cysts which I believe were still viable afterwards as well.
I tried straight freshwater as well and it seemed to work better but it killed the acros I tried it on with a 30 second dip. Your 10 seconds or less is good advice, though LPS and zoas can handle longer.

Yeah, sensitive sps - it may just not be worth the risk/stress.

 

[Paullawr]

It sort of makes sense when you think about it. If we add small doses of phyto or nutrients to the tank, Dino's get worse. You could assess the results as a negative one based on that but adding large amounts is achieving both food for fauna, Flora, and nutrients.

Well I've just made mistake number 1036. See I needed some nitrate. So was at a garden centre today and bought some plant food.
Got nitrate in it

Added some.... Water went a bit milky white for few seconds.

All looked fine.

Did some gardening, come back in half hour later. Thought what the cr_ap ill add some more. Much bigger dose.

Went out did some gardening. Come back in hour later.....

Nem had shriveled and torch had retracted up its own bum (if it has one).

Though Hmmmmmmm they didn't like that.

So went and got my mixed water and turned off pumps. Started syphoning sand and water and noticed the dead dino smell. Toxin smell.

Water was reddish colour coming out.

Did a big change and nem retuning to glory.

Looked on side of bottle and contains phosphate oxide. Which I think reacts with water......

Be intriguing to see the results

 

[Paullawr]

See lovely ingredients

 

[taricha]

See I needed some nitrate. So was at a garden centre today and bought some plant food.
Got nitrate in it

Added some.... Water went a bit milky white for few seconds.

All looked fine.

Did some gardening, come back in half hour later. Thought what the cr_ap ill add some more. Much bigger dose.

Went out did some gardening. Come back in hour later.....

Nem had shriveled and torch had retracted up its own bum (if it has one).


Looked on side of bottle and contains phosphate oxide. Which I think reacts with water......

Don't do this. In case it weren't obvious.
Aside from adding crazy amounts of P - a liquid fertilizer I used once would raise PO4 by 0.10 at only 4 drops for my tank- it doesn't tell the source of N. Mine and many other liquid fertilizers use ammonia as part or most of the N.
So I hope your livestock can handle an ammonia spike. Because I think that's the biggest effect you're seeing.

 

[kecked]

Miracle grow also has some copper in it. I thought the same thing. Bad idea. Randy saved me from disaster.

I added a micron polishing filter to my 29gal and really stirred it up. I also added a little diatom powder. I cleaned it several time over the afternoon. It looks really good right now. I don’t have a uv but bet if I did I might have this tank near clean. Well at least enough for new bacteria to take hold. I also added a little live rock with cyano on it. Guy thought I was crazy asking for live rock with cyano on it!

If this works I’ll do the same for the big tank with a real diatom filter. I have uv and I have the nutrients where I want them. Frankly the big tank is really turning the corner.

I am going grab a water sample maybe a liter or two and filter it on a pvc filter. Want to see what Dino concentration looks like after filter runs a few days. With day night cycles. Should be better.

Also thinking of feeding output of this filter to my uv as a pre filter. Will make water as clear as possible stop fouling uv and send any dinos not caught in micron filter to the death chamber.

GC/ms. Meet Diatom/UV. The new couple in town.

 

[Paullawr]

Don't do this. In case it weren't obvious.
Aside from adding crazy amounts of P - a liquid fertilizer I used once would raise PO4 by 0.10 at only 4 drops for my tank- it doesn't tell the source of N. Mine and many other liquid fertilizers use ammonia as part or most of the N.
So I hope your livestock can handle an ammonia spike. Because I think that's the biggest effect you're seeing.

Its all cool.

 

[Kimberely]

Don't do this. In case it weren't obvious.
Aside from adding crazy amounts of P - a liquid fertilizer I used once would raise PO4 by 0.10 at only 4 drops for my tank- it doesn't tell the source of N. Mine and many other liquid fertilizers use ammonia as part or most of the N.
So I hope your livestock can handle an ammonia spike. Because I think that's the biggest effect you're seeing.

Curious about fertilizer meant for a planted tank. For instance I have ThriveS that I use in my planted 75 gallon. It's safe for freshwater invertebrates.

 

[Paullawr]

Seriously all good. Stop the panic. Fish wernt bothered. Other than the nem and torch it was all fine.

The smell was dead dinos on mass... I know the smell, its quite different from ammonia. Its a toxic smell and water turns a hue of red.

I know this from kalk bombing them. In previous infestations.

 

[Paullawr]

Miracle grow also has some copper in it. I thought the same thing. Bad idea. Randy saved me from disaster.

I added a micron polishing filter to my 29gal and really stirred it up. I also added a little diatom powder. I cleaned it several time over the afternoon. It looks really good right now. I don’t have a uv but bet if I did I might have this tank near clean. Well at least enough for new bacteria to take hold. I also added a little live rock with cyano on it. Guy thought I was crazy asking for live rock with cyano on it!

If this works I’ll do the same for the big tank with a real diatom filter. I have uv and I have the nutrients where I want them. Frankly the big tank is really turning the corner.

I am going grab a water sample maybe a liter or two and filter it on a pvc filter. Want to see what Dino concentration looks like after filter runs a few days. With day night cycles. Should be better.

Also thinking of feeding output of this filter to my uv as a pre filter. Will make water as clear as possible stop fouling uv and send any dinos not caught in micron filter to the death chamber.

GC/ms. Meet Diatom/UV. The new couple in town.

There's copper in NSW so don't assume it's total fatal in any level.

They once used copper coins in tanks to keep pests such as ich at bay. So don't read in to it too much.

 

[taricha]

Curious about fertilizer meant for a planted tank. For instance I have ThriveS that I use in my planted 75 gallon. It's safe for freshwater invertebrates.

Avoid for our purposes. "Shrimp safe" means no Cu. Still is "comprehensive" by which they mean N, P, K, Mg, B, Zn, Fe, Mn, Mo.
We want to just add P and N. And in the ratios we want. Products like this mean we can't control, and maybe the trace elements it adds are something we want to deplete.

 

[Paullawr]

Don't do this. In case it weren't obvious.
Aside from adding crazy amounts of P - a liquid fertilizer I used once would raise PO4 by 0.10 at only 4 drops for my tank- it doesn't tell the source of N. Mine and many other liquid fertilizers use ammonia as part or most of the N.
So I hope your livestock can handle an ammonia spike. Because I think that's the biggest effect you're seeing.

I think actually it's the P2O5 rather than nitrate increase. Still everything fr

Avoid for our purposes. "Shrimp safe" means no Cu. Still is "comprehensive" by which they mean N, P, K, Mg, B, Zn, Fe, Mn, Mo.
We want to just add P and N. And in the ratios we want. Products like this mean we can't control, and maybe the trace elements it adds are something we want to deplete.

I agree with @taricha

Still let's see how it pans out.