Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[wgortenmulder (NL)]

How's it going, so you're saying when you removed the sand you still had dinos?

Yes,
despite I removed all the sand the Dino's stayed, covering the rocks and the rest of the tank.
At this time I'm still battling Dino's for over 9 months.

 

[wgortenmulder (NL)]

This why you have a dino bloom. Not because of LED lighting.

I agree.
This is definitely what opened "pandora's box" so to speak.
Unfortunately, despite all tips and tricks from this thread, I'm not able to get these buggers back in the box...
One thing I haven’t tried is change my lighting and return from LED back to T5.
And I’m just curious if there are people who have done this and if this will bring stability back in the tank.

Wouter

 

[reeferfoxx]

I agree.
This is definitely what opened "pandora's box" so to speak.
Unfortunately, despite all tips and tricks from this thread, I'm not able to get these buggers back in the box...
One thing I haven’t tried is change my lighting and return from LED back to T5.
And I’m just curious if there are people who have done this and if this will bring stability back in the tank.

Wouter

Welcome to R2R! Can you tell me about your tank? Size and age? Filtration? Parameters?

 

[Instigate]

Help with ID please?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Help with ID please?

I see three different kinds ;Facepalm

Amphidinium, Ostreopsis, and the third might be prorocentrum. The 3rd one was kind of in the center right sort of spinning. The white tipped ones are the ostreopsis and the small ones with the flat notched top with a small circle in the center are amphidinium.

 

[Instigate]

I see three different kinds ;Facepalm

Amphidinium, Ostreopsis, and the third might be prorocentrum. The 3rd one was kind of in the center right sort of spinning. The white tipped ones are the ostreopsis and the small ones with the flat notched top with a small circle in the center are amphidinium.

Now I just need some coolia and I'll have the complete set!

 

[reeferfoxx]

Now I just need some coolia and I'll have the complete set!

I can help you with that! Kidding...but yes I could...;Bookworm

Things I would do...

• Nutrient dosing
• UV
• Add live rock(bring on the bubble algae, I'll take it all)
• Get a cup of sand from a healthy LFS tank
• Dose brightwells sponge food(brain not working at the moment)

I would then let the tank sit for 15 days without interaction and add some copepods, amphipods, rotifers, and overdose plankton. Then let the tank sit for another 15 days before performing a cleanup/maintenance/water change day.

 

[Instigate]

I can help you with that! Kidding...but yes I could...;Bookworm

Things I would do...

• Nutrient dosing
• UV
• Add live rock(bring on the bubble algae, I'll take it all)
• Get a cup of sand from a healthy LFS tank
• Dose brightwells sponge food(brain not working at the moment)

I would then let the tank sit for 15 days without interaction and add some copepods, amphipods, rotifers, and overdose plankton. Then let the tank sit for another 15 days before performing a cleanup/maintenance/water change day.

Btw that sample came from a long string growing off a fake sea urchin I put in(expecting Banggai babies any day now). The only visible dinos in my tank are on the sand, but when I added the fake sea urchins by the next day they had a bunch of strands growing on them. They looked like cyano but the color was more brown like dinos, and sure enough it was.

When I first had a dino bloom I had little no3 but zero po4. So after reading the first page of this thread I started dosing the NeoPhos and NeoNitro. Got my nutrients up to >10ppm no3 and ~.04-.08ppm po4 and have been sitting there for several weeks I think, I'd have to grab the log to be sure.
I've been looking at UV units, can't afford to go grab one right now(In between projects and about to move). At least not a properly sized one, but when I can swing it I will.
I started the tank with dry rock so I've definitely been thinking about ordering some Gulf LR, the stuff at the LFS looks less mature than the rocks in my tank unfortunately.
A cup of sand, I'm sure I could get.
This stuff? https://www.amazon.com/Brightwell-Aquatics-UltraPlanktos-P-Food-500ml/dp/B01AG0BU0C
I also want to add a bunch of macro algae.

Thanks for the guidance. The dinos aren't plague levels in my tank anymore but I sure would like to move past this.

 

[Instigate]

Or, I think you're talking about this stuff right? http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/spongexcel.php
Silicates to help diatoms to bloom?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Btw that sample came from a long string growing off a fake sea urchin I put in(expecting Banggai babies any day now). The only visible dinos in my tank are on the sand, but when I added the fake sea urchins by the next day they had a bunch of strands growing on them. They looked like cyano but the color was more brown like dinos, and sure enough it was.

When I first had a dino bloom I had little no3 but zero po4. So after reading the first page of this thread I started dosing the NeoPhos and NeoNitro. Got my nutrients up to >10ppm no3 and ~.04-.08ppm po4 and have been sitting there for several weeks I think, I'd have to grab the log to be sure.
I've been looking at UV units, can't afford to go grab one right now(In between projects and about to move). At least not a properly sized one, but when I can swing it I will.
I started the tank with dry rock so I've definitely been thinking about ordering some Gulf LR, the stuff at the LFS looks less mature than the rocks in my tank unfortunately.
A cup of sand, I'm sure I could get.
This stuff? https://www.amazon.com/Brightwell-Aquatics-UltraPlanktos-P-Food-500ml/dp/B01AG0BU0C
I also want to add a bunch of macro algae.

Thanks for the guidance. The dinos aren't plague levels in my tank anymore but I sure would like to move past this.

A couple of cheap 24w green killing machine UVs from Petco or PetSmart would be better than nothing. Sounds like you have a good start. I don't have much experience with adding macros during a dino bloom. I always avoided it because of nutrient reduction.

 

[Instigate]

A couple of cheap 24w green killing machine UVs from Petco or PetSmart would be better than nothing. Sounds like you have a good start. I don't have much experience with adding macros during a dino bloom. I always avoided it because of nutrient reduction.

Oh the macros idea is from @mcarroll explaining this diagram.

If you have already brought up your nutrients to recommended levels (which are > Redfield) then based on the diagram, applying macro algae or an ATS seems like it would be the way to go. Either option should burn through the availble N quickly without putting a severe enough cramp on either N or P to harm the rest of the tank.

I would probably continue the same maintenance dose you had been putting in the tank to boost N and P.

But stop managing the ppm's...let them fall as the algae grows.

We hope that this triggers the dino's to revert back to photosynthesis and consuming nothing but dissolved nutrients....therefore stopping the blooming behavior and the toxin formation. Once things are stabilized without the dino's around, then wean the tank off of N and P dosing slowly.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Or, I think you're talking about this stuff right? http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/spongexcel.php
Silicates to help diatoms to bloom?

Yep this is it.

Oh the macros idea is from @mcarroll explaining this diagram.

Gotcha! Where is that guy @mcarroll ??

 

[Acroporaaddict]

I increased my PO4 to .1ppm NO3 has been stable at 5ppm. I'm going to siphon out my sand bed as well. This is my first tank in many years with sand, just figures it would be the tank that has a dino problem. How long once sand is gone and PO4 and NO3 are elevated and stable should I begin to notice a decrease in Dinos? Also, I have a empty 3/4" Barb on my manifold. I'm open to adding a uv sterilizer if it will help. What wattage would you recommend for a 50g system volume?

 

[Acroporaaddict]

I feel like since increase the tanks nutrients, the problem has gotten significantly worse. It is starting to smother my acros and zoa's. Is there anything else that can be done to help? I've read about h2o2 dosing and even dino x. Any success stories?

 

[reeferfoxx]

I increased my PO4 to .1ppm NO3 has been stable at 5ppm. I'm going to siphon out my sand bed as well. This is my first tank in many years with sand, just figures it would be the tank that has a dino problem. How long once sand is gone and PO4 and NO3 are elevated and stable should I begin to notice a decrease in Dinos? Also, I have a empty 3/4" Barb on my manifold. I'm open to adding a uv sterilizer if it will help. What wattage would you recommend for a 50g system volume?

I feel like since increase the tanks nutrients, the problem has gotten significantly worse. It is starting to smother my acros and zoa's. Is there anything else that can be done to help? I've read about h2o2 dosing and even dino x. Any success stories?

I'm sorry nobody got back to you yet. I myself had a busy weekend.

I think a 20-30 watt UV would work just fine for your 50g.

As far as the dino growth goes, I found it not uncommon for Dino's to grow exponentially after supplying the tank with more nutrients. It's kind of a ''gets worse before getting better" effect. Have you added any diversity to the tank since adding nutrients? Something like live rock?

 

[Acroporaaddict]

I'm sorry nobody got back to you yet. I myself had a busy weekend.

I think a 20-30 watt UV would work just fine for your 50g.

As far as the dino growth goes, I found it not uncommon for Dino's to grow exponentially after supplying the tank with more nutrients. It's kind of a ''gets worse before getting better" effect. Have you added any diversity to the tank since adding nutrients? Something like live rock?

I will look into an appropriately sized uv. As far as adding live rock, no I haven't. I added some rubble into the sump, bit I have no room for live rock as I wanted to keep the aquascape minimalist and use dry rock in order to avoid hitchhikers. Would there be an benefit to dosing a bacteria like Microbacter7? What about pods and phyto from algaebarn?

 

[reeferfoxx]

I will look into an appropriately sized uv. As far as adding live rock, no I haven't. I added some rubble into the sump, bit I have no room for live rock as I wanted to keep the aquascape minimalist and use dry rock in order to avoid hitchhikers. Would there be an benefit to dosing a bacteria like Microbacter7? What about pods and phyto from algaebarn?

I'll say I added some live rock to my tank during this phase and of course hitchhikers we're a concern. I did get a small case of bubble algae but has been easy to maintain. If anything, having a small amount of live rock in the display temporarily for a week would help a lot. Also, I eventually removed the live rock from thethe t once the fight was over. It certainly doesn't have to be a long term sacrifice, just enough time to add biological competitors.

MB7 is denitrifying bacteria and would only reduce nitrates. If you want to add some bacteria, I would recommend Dr times eco balance.

Hold off on the pods till you see a dino reduction. Then load the tank up and overdose the phytoplankton. Adding rotifers will help even more.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Sorry for the misspelled words or phrases. I have this $1,000 phone that likes to type for me...;Facepalm

 

[Acroporaaddict]

I'll say I added some live rock to my tank during this phase and of course hitchhikers we're a concern. I did get a small case of bubble algae but has been easy to maintain. If anything, having a small amount of live rock in the display temporarily for a week would help a lot. Also, I eventually removed the live rock from thethe t once the fight was over. It certainly doesn't have to be a long term sacrifice, just enough time to add biological competitors.

MB7 is denitrifying bacteria and would only reduce nitrates. If you want to add some bacteria, I would recommend Dr times eco balance.

Hold off on the pods till you see a dino reduction. Then load the tank up and overdose the phytoplankton. Adding rotifers will help even more.

Would taking the sand out be a good idea? I'm worried it would upset the biology even more. At the same time, it wouldn't allow the Dino's to "hide" in the sand thus making the uv I just purchased more effective. Correct?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Would taking the sand out be a good idea? I'm worried it would upset the biology even more. At the same time, it wouldn't allow the Dino's to "hide" in the sand thus making the uv I just purchased more effective. Correct?

You can remove the sand. That's entirely up to you. What I did was turkey baste the sand and the rocks attempting to keep them suspended in the water column. That way the UV was more effective.