Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Chris Villalobos]

Now that I have my Dinos at bay and I’m going back to somewhat of a normal schedule with regards to normal maintenance and water changes. I don’t seem to have an issue keeping my nitrates up to detectable levels, I struggle to keep my phosphates at detectable levels. I only have a small piece of chateo. I keep the refuge light off right now. I have to dose brightwell phosphate heavily in order to keep any sort of detectable levels. I only run my skimmer, UV light, and refuge. Any help or thoughts? Last thing I want is for Dinos to take over again. I feed very heavy, 3 times a day. Thoughts?

I've been persuaded that we need to keep adding beneficial bacteria as preventative maintenance, and keep NO3 and PO4 within range. I guess skimming takes out a lot of free floating bacteria from the water column.

 

[saltyhog]

Tank looks nice from what i can see

Awesome UV

Hoping to get it looking as nice at the end of the light cycle as it does in the beginning! That's the one thing that convinced me to go to the trouble of using UV. In the morning the sand and rock is pristine. By lights out, it looks bad. If indeed those dinos are going in to the water column as thought with ostreopsis, I'm looking forward to seeing improvement really soon!

 

[saltyhog]

Thank you @dwest for prodding me to get a UV filter. I can't believe what I'm seeing this evening. I have no visible sign of dinos. Zoas that haven't been open for several weeks have opened. Even my RFA's look bigger and happier!

Lousy cell phone pic but no dinos visible!

 

[dwest]

Thank you @dwest for prodding me to get a UV filter. I can't believe what I'm seeing this evening. I have no visible sign of dinos. Zoas that haven't been open for several weeks have opened. Even my RFA's look bigger and happier!

Lousy cell phone pic but no dinos visible!

Salty, very glad things have turned. I think the hard part is yet to come. Keep them from coming back! Do you know caused them to take over in the first place? Did your nutrients drop for a while? BTW your tank looks great!

 

[saltyhog]

Salty, very glad things have turned. I think the hard part is yet to come. Keep them from coming back! Do you know caused them to take over in the first place? Did your nutrients drop for a while? BTW your tank looks great!

Oh yeah, I got pretty cavalier with GFO and dropped my PO4 to zero when my nitrate was running about 0.2. It took me 3 months of dosing NaNO3 and Seachem Flourish Phosphorous plus 3 more months to recover when I got them initially. Wish I had listened to those that mentioned UV back then!

 

[dwest]

Oh yeah, I got pretty cavalier with GFO and dropped my PO4 to zero when my nitrate was running about 0.2. It took me 3 months of dosing NaNO3 and Seachem Flourish Phosphorous plus 3 more months to recover when I got them initially. Wish I had listened to those that mentioned UV back then!

You and me both...

If I were you, I would figure out how to to permanently plumb that beast of UV that you have. Good luck.

 

[Paullawr]

You and me both...

If I were you, I would figure out how to to permanently plumb that beast of UV that you have. Good luck.

Now we just need some smart company to come with an under gravel UV filter of similar wattage to radiate the sandbed for those sand loving varieties.

 

[Shallow Planet]

Started treating my tank. I am dosing Nitrates, Phosphates, and Silicates. Treating with Dinox. And reduced lighting cycle to 6 hours a day. today is day 3 and will do 2nd dose of dinox tonight. Wish me luck. So far no real visual difference. I manually removed some, but the clean areas turned brown. Couldn't tell if this was dinos or cyno but I will put under a microscope after a few more days to see true progress. So far no ill effects on any livestock.

Anyone recommend also adding UV?

 

[Paullawr]

Started treating my tank. I am dosing Nitrates, Phosphates, and Silicates. Treating with Dinox. And reduced lighting cycle to 6 hours a day. today is day 3 and will do 2nd dose of dinox tonight. Wish me luck. So far no real visual difference. I manually removed some, but the clean areas turned brown. Couldn't tell if this was dinos or cyno but I will put under a microscope after a few more days to see true progress. So far no ill effects on any livestock.

Anyone recommend also adding UV?

Firstly if dino x doesnt make an improvement by third dose id stop. In my past experience its done way more harm on good invertebrates than on the protists.

Its often innaffective and I know why. I discussed the product with fauna marine and only works on dinoflagellates that consume it. For the ones that dont actively eat it has zero effect. Instead the treatment if continued to be used builds up harmful compounds in tank and basically starts killing corals.

UV is affective as described but only to strains that migrate in water column. So first thing is to work out which.

There is no harm with nutrient balancing whilst figuring out which strain.

Likewise if you have at hand a heavy duty UV plumb it to display tank.

Some folk have dosed a lot of fiji mud and bacterial products. Chuck in some rock and sand from a clean tank as may have something benneficial on.
Basically we want to encourage dinoflagellate eating dinoflagellates or cilliates.

Nuttients alone im not totally sold on. After all its its food to them. As i theorised earlier it might counter balance a fight or flight response when we nutrient deprive our tanks and starve them. This is pure speculation on my behalf though.

Still whatever it is something seems to put them in recession.

 

[OpenOcean33]

Just an update for you guys stank is stabilizing n04 down to 4ppm and po4 .08. And cyano and green hair alage are starting to die off.

 

[Paullawr]

Just an update for you guys stank is stabilizing n04 down to 4ppm and po4 .08. And cyano and green hair alage are starting to die off.

Lovely tank. Welldone.

 

[saltyhog]

Started treating my tank. I am dosing Nitrates, Phosphates, and Silicates. Treating with Dinox. And reduced lighting cycle to 6 hours a day. today is day 3 and will do 2nd dose of dinox tonight. Wish me luck. So far no real visual difference. I manually removed some, but the clean areas turned brown. Couldn't tell if this was dinos or cyno but I will put under a microscope after a few more days to see true progress. So far no ill effects on any livestock.

Anyone recommend also adding UV?

There is no substitute for microscopic ID of your species. However, I'm wondering if some characteristics can be used to identify species that may be sensitive to UV. My dinos were ostreopsis and one of the things I would note was that my sand and rocks would be relatively pristine in the morning when the lights came on but would get progressively worse as the day went on.

Could this pattern be a reliable signal for those who can't or don't want to get access to a microscope?

 

[dugthefish]

Quick question. I've heard dinos are toxic for inverts that consume them. What about algae eating fish that may eat them?

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Quick question. I've heard dinos are toxic for inverts that consume them. What about algae eating fish that may eat them?

I think that it depends on the specific type of dinos. Some are far more toxic than others.
All my snails and fish are still going strong, over 6 weeks into the outbreak.

 

[dugthefish]

I think that it depends on the specific type of dinos. Some are far more toxic than others.
All my snails and fish are still going strong, over 6 weeks into the outbreak.

Only reason I ask is because I'm about to add my first two grazers to the tank (blennie and rabbitfish). Wondering if I should keep them in QT until I get this sorted, but I suspect that could be awhile.

 

[saltyhog]

Only reason I ask is because I'm about to add my first two grazers to the tank (glennie and rabbitfish). Wondering if I should keep them in QT until I get this sorted, but I suspect that could be awhile.

I had Ostreopsis and my conchs and tang ate it without any issues!

 

[saltyhog]

You and me both...

If I were you, I would figure out how to to permanently plumb that beast of UV that you have. Good luck.

I think I may have a way to do one of the two units (they can be separated).

How often do you think I should change carbon. I've got carbon in both of my reactors that I put in 3 days ago. With a pretty large load of dinos virtually being killed over night I'm wondering how quickly the carbon would be maxed out.

 

[dwest]

I think I may have a way to do one of the two units (they can be separated).

How often do you think I should change carbon. I've got carbon in both of my reactors that I put in 3 days ago. With a pretty large load of dinos virtually being killed over night I'm wondering how quickly the carbon would be maxed out.

I would go weekly at the most for now.

 

[dwest]

I think that it depends on the specific type of dinos. Some are far more toxic than others.
All my snails and fish are still going strong, over 6 weeks into the outbreak.

Mine were very toxic.

 

[Paullawr]

There are a lot of requests for IDing as of late. I know @dwest has provided the algaeid link which can help and suggest paging back a few pages to see this link.

As a rule of thumb you can break down dinoflagellates in to two categories. Free swimmers & surface dwellers.

Whilst both types are bethnic some do leave to migrate in water column.

Due to some microscopes providing bot the best picture you may need to have provide an educated guess yourselves. Dont forget there are multiple sub strains of amphidium, osteo etc we just roll them all in to the broad classification at the moment.

To aid with ID a small video clip is best as movement gives it a way. For that reason search youtube what you think it is and if a video matches your cell movement its likely that.

Amphidium glide over sand moving forwards. Osteo move as if tethered to a central point.

Do your dinos prefer sand. Brown stains on sand which appear darker during high lighting and before lights on appear fainter. Likely amphidium or procentrum. At night they migrate from surface where photosynthesis is aim to beneath sand to prevent algae grazers wiping them out.

If at night rocks look clearer but during day snot appears likely osteo.

Long treatment method (if you can call it that) on here is same.

If free swimming a good UV will help. 5 micron filter socks also good (if you can find them). Also use only at night and ideally clean and change daily at that micron. There is a paper towel trick which can be used instead of socks.

There is no substitute for microscopic ID of your species. However, I'm wondering if some characteristics can be used to identify species that may be sensitive to UV. My dinos were ostreopsis and one of the things I would note was that my sand and rocks would be relatively pristine in the morning when the lights came on but would get progressively worse as the day went on.

Could this pattern be a reliable signal for those who can't or don't want to get access to a microscope?

Yes this is exactly what i was saying on the previous page.