Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

taricha

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
2,221
@taricha and others can you help with a positive ID (this is at 1200x)?
Ostreopsis!

Vid of dinos. Sorry its so crappy, ot was hard to keep my phone lined up with the microscope.
Amphidinium!

I setup the microscope and took some pictures and videos. I recommend clicking fullscreen for the videos.

If anyone can ID I will greatly appreciate it. This is my first time producing content using a microscope so if I need to try and record something better for a more accurate ID then just let me know and I will be happy to do so.

I really appreciate all of you for taking the time to help people like me.
Prorocentrum!

Thanks yall for keeping a fresh mix of dino strains :)
 

Xavier434

Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 29, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
30
Prorocentrum!
Thank you so much for the ID! I have spent some time researching how to combat Prorocentrum, but I am not sure if the information that I have found is too outdated.

This is my plan for now based on that research.

1. Dose Phosphate until I hit 0.1 ppm. I am currently at 0.04 ppm and have trouble getting any higher despite overfeeding. Possibly increase nitrate as well. Right now I am at about 8 ppm.

2. Rework the UV so it takes water directly from the display. Right now it is plumbed to draw and deposit water in the sump.

3. Blow off the rocks and top layer of the sand at least once per day and especially after the lights are out.


If anyone has any additional tips please let me know.



Thanks yall for keeping a fresh mix of dino strains :)
You are welcome. After all, what would the world be like if reefers like us didn't cultivate these joyous species. ;Happy
 
Last edited:

drawman

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
2,214
Reaction score
1,948
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Ostreopsis!
Thanks @taricha I was able to identify them too thanks to one of your earlier posts. Sounds like I may be in for a battle on this one so I will be raising nutrients, adding phyto, and overall praying to the reefing gods. Might have to start running carbon too for their toxins :(
 

Xavier434

Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 29, 2019
Messages
27
Reaction score
30
Something else that I wanted to mention is that I have been dosing Microbactr7 with every Nitrate dose that I do. However, I have been reading about Vibrant lately. Is it worth switching to or combining with Microbactr7 to fight Dinos?
 
Corals.com

taricha

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
2,221
1. Dose Phosphate until I hit 0.1 ppm. I am currently at 0.04 ppm and have trouble getting any higher despite overfeeding. Possibly increase nitrate as well. Right now I am at about 8 ppm.
Don't overfeed. It gives poor results. Normal feeding levels and dosing P then N sources works better.

Sounds like I may be in for a battle on this one so I will be raising nutrients, adding phyto, and overall praying to the reefing gods. Might have to start running carbon too for their toxins :(
Ostreopsis is not that bad - pretty well controlled with the methods of this thread. No need to resort to phyto dosing (which can just as easily make it worse as help).
Something else that I wanted to mention is that I have been dosing Microbactr7 with every Nitrate dose that I do. However, I have been reading about Vibrant lately. Is it worth switching to or combining with Microbactr7 to fight Dinos?
Totally different bacterial actors. Vibrant is not a substitute for MB7. Vibrant's an algaecide, MB7 claims to be a mix of waste consuming and biofilter enhancing bacteria.

I believe this video I found on youtube contributes to this topic.
Not absolutely sure if they are really dinoflagellates, but they seem to be ...
quite likely some dinos in there. If the Dino bloom is not toxic, then strong invertebrate grazers (not copepods) like amphipods, munnid isopods and others do consume dinos.
here's a post I did on a video with identified amphidinium being eaten by a tanaid (almost shrimp)
 

drawman

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
2,214
Reaction score
1,948
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Ostreopsis is not that bad - pretty well controlled with the methods of this thread. No need to resort to phyto dosing (which can just as easily make it worse as help).
Interesting I will hold off on the phyto then. My reasoning was to try to get my pod population to come back (my glass was covered with pods before dinos and cyano took over). I also employed an autofeeder about a 3-4 weeks ago in the hopes of getting PO4 up I wonder if I should shut that down?
 

taricha

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
2,221
I also employed an autofeeder about a 3-4 weeks ago in the hopes of getting PO4 up I wonder if I should shut that down?
There's nothing wrong with auto feeding. Consistent feeding is a good and helpful thing, but the idea of raising phosphate by increasing food edition is one that is very slow to show good results, if at all.
 

drawman

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
2,214
Reaction score
1,948
Location
Saint Paul, MN
There's nothing wrong with auto feeding. Consistent feeding is a good and helpful thing, but the idea of raising phosphate by increasing food edition is one that is very slow to show good results, if at all.
@taricha what are your thoughts on my H202 dosing? I just started about a week ago dosing 1mL/10gallons 2x/day to help combat my cyano. I'm debating if it will make my tank too clean and help prevent other algae from taking hold. I can really see pros/cons either way.
 

ScottB

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
1,300
Reaction score
1,504
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Hey guys, just needed help confirming identification. I believe I have ostreopsis?

ACA6EA77-FBF1-4AA3-89D7-075562CC742A.jpeg
I believe you are correct and the "Like" from taricha confirms this I think.

Good news is they respond well to dosing NO3 and PO4, adding UV (1 watt per three gallons), and run some GAC to knock down the toxins produced.

If they get thick in the tank, you can hang some filter floss to the glass with suction cup & zip tie in high light and flow area. Rinse each night.
 

taricha

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
2,221
@taricha what are your thoughts on my H202 dosing? I just started about a week ago dosing 1mL/10gallons 2x/day to help combat my cyano. I'm debating if it will make my tank too clean and help prevent other algae from taking hold. I can really see pros/cons either way.
for cyano, its fine. you can dose at a level that will hurt cyano and leave most other things intact - cyano is ~10x more sensitive to h2o2 than other photosynthetic stuff.
but I don't like the idea of using it in-tank vs dinos or other things. the doses to have an effect are so high it hits lots of targets and hurts growth of many things.
edit: but even for cyano, it does nothing to address the conditions driving it. so long term other actions are needed.
 

HWDylan

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
156
Reaction score
41
for cyano, its fine. you can dose at a level that will hurt cyano and leave most other things intact - cyano is ~10x more sensitive to h2o2 than other photosynthetic stuff.
but I don't like the idea of using it in-tank vs dinos or other things. the doses to have an effect are so high it hits lots of targets and hurts growth of many things.
edit: but even for cyano, it does nothing to address the conditions driving it. so long term other actions are needed.
Interesting. So you would say that the 1ml /10gal is not a high enough concentration to really affect dinos?

I have been using this as a multi-pronged approach to fighting Prorocentrum. I may discontinue if it is a waste of time. I just see so many people using it in this thread to fight this menace.
 

Shaun_in_Cali

Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 17, 2019
Messages
78
Reaction score
70
G'day Reefers - I'm looking at installing a UV steriliser to my tank to help with Dinos - I have 2 (received when I purchased the tank, one is definitely 25W and the other I suspect is 15W (Both Gamma). According to this chart: https://x4u6a9v7.stackpathcdn.com/files/GammaUV_SizingGuide.pdf

My tank size is 120G, and my return pump is returning about 500-550GPH. Reading this chart it would seem that 25W and plumbing direct into my return should be sufficient.

Would there be any benefit to installing both; if so would it be better to plumb in both in series or parallel, and do people have any thoughts as to benefits of plumbing into return vs returning the water to the sump on a different circuit?

Thanks in advance
 
Last edited:

HomeSlizzice

Wrasse/Angelfish nut!
View Badges
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
433
Reaction score
190
Location
OC
Interesting. So you would say that the 1ml /10gal is not a high enough concentration to really affect dinos?

I have been using this as a multi-pronged approach to fighting Prorocentrum. I may discontinue if it is a waste of time. I just see so many people using it in this thread to fight this menace.
Personally i wouldn’t stop. Even if it’s only negatively impacting them by like 5%, it’s worth continuing to use. I don’t think any of the one things I used is the silver bullet... to me it’s combination of everything. Death by a thousand cuts.
 

HWDylan

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
156
Reaction score
41
Personally i wouldn’t stop. Even if it’s only negatively impacting them by like 5%, it’s worth continuing to use. I don’t think any of the one things I used is the silver bullet... to me it’s combination of everything. Death by a thousand cuts.
Yours in the approach I am going with since you fought and beat Prorocentrum. I have some calcium carbonate powder ordered to start using the DIY Coral Snow as well.

Hitting them from every angle hopefully.

I just came out of a 3 day black out and the tank have never looked so clear. I am continuing to change filter socks daily and dose h2o2. Its a bare bottom tank so I scraped the bottom of the tank again last night and got all the slime on the bottom into the water column. I have 3 or 4 small patched of what looks like hair algae growing on the rocks which I am taking as a good sign. This tank has never had any type of algae in it at all so seeing that is promising.

Open to any more suggestions anyone on here may have. There isn't a ton of info on Prorocentrum out there so I am just trying anything and everything.
 

drawman

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
2,214
Reaction score
1,948
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Yours in the approach I am going with since you fought and beat Prorocentrum. I have some calcium carbonate powder ordered to start using the DIY Coral Snow as well.

Hitting them from every angle hopefully.

I just came out of a 3 day black out and the tank have never looked so clear. I am continuing to change filter socks daily and dose h2o2. Its a bare bottom tank so I scraped the bottom of the tank again last night and got all the slime on the bottom into the water column. I have 3 or 4 small patched of what looks like hair algae growing on the rocks which I am taking as a good sign. This tank has never had any type of algae in it at all so seeing that is promising.

Open to any more suggestions anyone on here may have. There isn't a ton of info on Prorocentrum out there so I am just trying anything and everything.
Is the coral snow supposed to bind them up?
 

fluidimagery

Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
17
Reaction score
4
Thank you very much @taricha for the ID of Ostreopsis on my Dino situation.

I'm looking for a game plan on what the best course of action to eliminate these. Sorry for the long post, just trying to list everything I can to help.

Tank Specs:
Red Sea Reefer 625XXL
Lights - 2 x Orphek Atlantik v4 Gen 2
Return Pump is a EcoTech Vectra L2
2 x MaxSpect Gyre 280s

Filtration:
- PolyFil in the 4 Baskets in the Sump
- Santa Monica Rain2 Algea Scrubber
- Reef Octopus Classic Skimmer 202-S
- Marine Max Bio Balls
- Sponge in the last baffle that came with the tank

Once the Dino ID was confirmed I purchased a CoralLife Turbo Twist 36x that runs off of a Sicca 3.0 pump.
- The added UV light seems to be helped quite a bit to get rid of the bulk of the problem.

In addition I've been manually siphoning out 5 gallons of water with as much of the Dino as possible and replacing right after the lights turn off. Then taking a power head when the lights go out and blowing off what can be removed from the rock.

I'm using Tropic Marin Salt (not the Reef Pro) and I've stopped any type of dosing so my parameters are a bit out of whack at this point. Originally I believe I created the problem by dosing NoPox, having the Algae Scubber, and using a phosban reactor. The tank is fairly stocked.

7" Sohol
7" Rabbit Fish
5" Blue Tang
Purple Tang
Dusky Wrasse
Mystery Wrasse
Flame Angel
Clown Fish
Green Mandarin
2 x Sand Sifting Blenny

The tank is about a year and 1/2 old. The issues started about 6 months ago.
I've tried using Dino-X and Vibrant with no positive effects. Last thing I tried was removing the sand and going BB and removing all of my coral from the rock and scrubbing it with Hydrogen Peroxide.

This looked great for about a week and the Dinos started coming back. In the process my pod population took a big hit.

Current Parameters as of this morning:
Temp: 78
SG: 1.025
PH: 8.0
Alk: 6.3dkH
Calc: 300
Mag: 1240
PO4: .01
NO3: .025

Tests were taking with the Red Sea kit. NO3 is normally around 5 and PO4 around .025. I'll need to get the NO3 up.

Lighting Schedule:
Lights.jpeg


Tank Video:



















Any help on what I should do would be greatly appreciated. If any other info would be helpful, please let me know.
 

ScottB

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
1,300
Reaction score
1,504
Location
Fairfield County, CT
G'day Reefers - I'm looking at installing a UV steriliser to my tank to help with Dinos - I have 2 (received when I purchased the tank, one is definitely 25W and the other I suspect is 15W (Both Gamma). According to this chart: https://x4u6a9v7.stackpathcdn.com/files/GammaUV_SizingGuide.pdf

My tank size is 120G, and my return pump is returning about 500-550GPH. Reading this chart it would seem that 25W and plumbing direct into my return should be sufficient.

Would there be any benefit to installing both; if so would it be better to plumb in both in series or parallel, and do people have any thoughts as to benefits of plumbing into return vs returning the water to the sump on a different circuit?

Thanks in advance
The common opinion is to size the unit at 1 watt per three gallons so 40 watts or so for killing dinos. 15+25=40 which is helpful. I'd run both.
It is further suggested that more contact time is helpful; closer to 300gph. Lastly, you are strongly encouraged to run to and from the DT.

So given all that here is MY opinion. While aesthetically this is not a crowd pleaser, if possible you should run them serial to/from the DT, powered by a smaller (like MJ1200 lph) pump unless the manufacturer lists a minimum flow rate which is higher.

Lastly, these bulbs definitely age poorly. And if they've ever been powered on without flow they overheat in minutes. Don't ask how I know this :). You can give them a try as is, but I would order replacements anyway, unless they look like unused units.
 
https://www.omegasea.net/

Do you reef more, less or the same on the weekends?

  • MORE

    Votes: 332 65.7%
  • LESS

    Votes: 28 5.5%
  • SAME

    Votes: 145 28.7%

Online statistics

Members online
1,428
Guests online
6,875
Total visitors
8,303
Cultivated Reef
Top