Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

drawman

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I'm declaring VICTORY!

It took 3 courses of Dr Tim's regimen and a final 3 day blackout to wipe out the remainder of the dino's and the residual algae, but the tank is IMMACULATE right now. I think what pushed it over the edge was the 25% WC last weekend followed by the 3 day blackout. I was dosing Neophos and Neonitro continually trying to keep nutrients above zero. The 72 hr blackout remedied that, but it did take a toll on several of my SPS, particularly the Jack-o-Lantern. Half of it melted. Hopefully good husbandry will result in a rapid recovery. I'm very optimistic.

In summary, hang in there! Mulitple iterations of the treatment may be required. Each time the dino outbreaks were smaller and smaller, but eventually I was able to out-compete it with bacteria and algae...

WB230 Nov 16 2019.jpg
So you used waste away and refresh correct? I've thought hard about trying this. Did using those products do anything to your NO3/PO4 levels?
 

h2oh2o

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I didn't think I would ever have to post to this thread but I am thankful it exist. I am almost on my 3rd week of Vibrant dosing. Since the start I have been getting a lot of Cyano and now I am getting what looks to be Dinos in my frag tank and now into my display tank. I was thinking of manually removing what I can with my weekly water changes then after done with Vibrant then I was going to try the following method. What do you all think? @taricha

20191116_172130.jpg

elegantCoralsDino.jpg
 

drawman

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Keeping up the ostreopsis fight here. Been dosing NO3/PO4 daily and I'm up to 5ppm NO3 and got my first above 0 reading of .02ppm PO4 today. I'm a little skeptical of the PO4 reading because it seemed that there were some microbubbles on my Hanna ULR cuvette but I will keep testing.

Tank looks like absolute crap with dinos and cyano taking over but I'm hoping things will level off soon. I think I'm going to do semi weekly (and maybe close to daily) small water changes just to siphon them out. Getting sick of looking at this ugly tank!
 

Grigs

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So you used waste away and refresh correct? I've thought hard about trying this. Did using those products do anything to your NO3/PO4 levels?
You bet they did! I was dosing like crazy, as in almost every day. I wound up with a heck of an algae bloom when the dino's passed, which I was excited to see. Then I noticed a bit of brown forming on the sand bed and some of the algae was blowing bubbles, so I ran the third course and the full 72 hr blackout. I appears to have been fully successful. This weekend I found parameters that made sense... PO4 was up, NO3 was up, and alk was down. The coral was starting to take off again! I tossed in the 5 micron sock and dosed a little phosphate-E to get back to .03 PO4 and life is good.

I did go through a bunch of product, though. I ran Vibrant a time or two, but mostly Waste Away and Renew. I got larger bottles from Amazon where I could take advantage of significant discounts in pricing. I would guess that I ran through nearly 3 bottles of Waste Away and probably the same for Renew. I just kept at it... lol. After my last 25% water change I added MicroBacter7 for good measure! lol
 

drawman

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You bet they did! I was dosing like crazy, as in almost every day. I wound up with a heck of an algae bloom when the dino's passed, which I was excited to see. Then I noticed a bit of brown forming on the sand bed and some of the algae was blowing bubbles, so I ran the third course and the full 72 hr blackout. I appears to have been fully successful. This weekend I found parameters that made sense... PO4 was up, NO3 was up, and alk was down. The coral was starting to take off again! I tossed in the 5 micron sock and dosed a little phosphate-E to get back to .03 PO4 and life is good.

I did go through a bunch of product, though. I ran Vibrant a time or two, but mostly Waste Away and Renew. I got larger bottles from Amazon where I could take advantage of significant discounts in pricing. I would guess that I ran through nearly 3 bottles of Waste Away and probably the same for Renew. I just kept at it... lol. After my last 25% water change I added MicroBacter7 for good measure! lol
Love to hear it! I wonder do you think you would've achieved the same result (even if it took a little longer) without the blackout? I may try to add this to the mix if raising nutrients doesn't have a complete effect.
 
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Grigs

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Love to hear it! I wonder do you think you would've achieved the same result (even if it took a little longer) without the blackout? I may try to add this to the mix if raising nutrients doesn't have a complete effect.
I don't think I would have. The blackouts were what REALLY showed an effect. Having the bacteria work down the nutrient inventory while the dino's starved and break down the waste in the tank is what I think made it effective. By the end of the second day the dino's appeared to be gone, but made a come back in smaller numbers a couple of times. I read some other posts that 72 hrs was risky with some coral. I found that to be true, also. It was what was finally effective, though...
 

ScottB

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Keeping up the ostreopsis fight here. Been dosing NO3/PO4 daily and I'm up to 5ppm NO3 and got my first above 0 reading of .02ppm PO4 today. I'm a little skeptical of the PO4 reading because it seemed that there were some microbubbles on my Hanna ULR cuvette but I will keep testing.

Tank looks like absolute crap with dinos and cyano taking over but I'm hoping things will level off soon. I think I'm going to do semi weekly (and maybe close to daily) small water changes just to siphon them out. Getting sick of looking at this ugly tank!
Hang in.
I would baste versus WC as you are exporting your nutrient dose. Dose to 20 on nitrate and .1 or higher on PO4. Cyano will get worse, but ironically that is good because film algae will be next and then you are golden.

UV at a watt per 3 gallons, running slow (3-400gph) in/out of display? Sorry if we've been through this already but dino threads are so popular these days it is hard to keep track.
 

drawman

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Hang in.
I would baste versus WC as you are exporting your nutrient dose. Dose to 20 on nitrate and .1 or higher on PO4. Cyano will get worse, but ironically that is good because film algae will be next and then you are golden.

UV at a watt per 3 gallons, running slow (3-400gph) in/out of display? Sorry if we've been through this already but dino threads are so popular these days it is hard to keep track.
Thanks Scott. Yeah I am aiming for about 10ppm NO3 and .1ppm PO4 but I can bump up the NO3 if need be. This cyano is unlike any other cyano strain I've dealt with so the only reason for the small water changes are to siphon it out and knock it down. I figure I will be changing out less water overall with smaller, frequent changes.

I am not running a UV at the moment. Just can't say I know of a brand I can trust that won't break the bank...

Speaking of basting I was actually thinking about trying to find an old maxijet to use to blast the rocks daily.
 

ScottB

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Thanks Scott. Yeah I am aiming for about 10ppm NO3 and .1ppm PO4 but I can bump up the NO3 if need be. This cyano is unlike any other cyano strain I've dealt with so the only reason for the small water changes are to siphon it out and knock it down. I figure I will be changing out less water overall with smaller, frequent changes.

I am not running a UV at the moment. Just can't say I know of a brand I can trust that won't break the bank...

Speaking of basting I was actually thinking about trying to find an old maxijet to use to blast the rocks daily.
I've had good experience with Aqua UV, but they are expensive no doubt. Look for one used maybe at half price, but order a new bulb if you do.

Got a pic of your cyano? I've seen a lot of chrysophytes accompany dinos, but cyano is more common.
 
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drawman

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I've had good experience with Aqua UV, but they are expensive no doubt. Look for one used maybe at half price, but order a new bulb if you do.

Got a pic of your cyano? I've seen a lot of chrysophytes accompany dinos, but cyano is more common.
Here is what the cyano looks like. I assure you this is not a neglected tank. High flow also with an MP40, Gyre XF130, and Tunze Stream 3. There could also be chrysophytes mixed in or perhaps lyngbya on another part of the tank. Either way it seems that I've managed to work my way in a bad corner. I will say oddly enough the cyano has always dominated on one rock (dry tonga) as opposed to the other (dry reef saver). It does cover the bottom and parts of the back glass too.

IMG_1735.jpg
IMG_1728.JPG
 

ScottB

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Here is what the cyano looks like. I assure you this is not a neglected tank. High flow also with an MP40, Gyre XF130, and Tunze Stream 3. There could also be chrysophytes mixed in or perhaps lyngbya on another part of the tank. Either way it seems that I've managed to work my way in a bad corner. I will say oddly enough the cyano has always dominated on one rock (dry tonga) as opposed to the other (dry reef saver). It does cover the bottom and parts of the back glass too.

IMG_1735.jpg
IMG_1728.JPG
Looks like good old fashioned cyano. For me, it comes on around the end of dino treatment then dissipates for whatever reason. Lucky I guess.
 

ReefingHavoc

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Been battling dinos for several months and all my corals have taken a bit of a hit. All SPS is gone. My acans have receded and now my euphillia have started to react. My hammer has had two polyp bailouts in the past few weeks. My frogspawn has also been receding. Any thoughts on if this is normal when dealing with dinos? I've been keeping N and P levels up as well as blowing off the rocks/sand nightly. Running 55w Jebao in display as well.

Alk: 9.0
Cal: 375
MG: 1380
PO4: .08
N: 13

You can see the hammers (red circle) with two bailouts. The green circle contains duncans that have been heavily receded for over a month. The coral has a fuzzy material on it that doesn't blow off.

InkedCoral Issues_LI.jpg
 

drawman

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I've had good experience with Aqua UV, but they are expensive no doubt. Look for one used maybe at half price, but order a new bulb if you do.

Got a pic of your cyano? I've seen a lot of chrysophytes accompany dinos, but cyano is more common.
I think you're right I absolutely need a UV. Just did a major blast of the rockwork and bottom of the tank. Had a ton of stuff floating around and dinos just reaggregate. Tank looks like garbage and so far dosing NO3/PO4 hasn't made things look much better just a solid matting of hair algae under the cyano and dinos.

Would a 25w UV work for a Red Sea Reefer 250 (total volume of 65 gallons)?
 
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GoldeneyeRet

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Is an ID possible with these images?

Not stringy, snooty or bubbly. Does stink and does seem to produce toxins. Goes away at least partially at night.

Thank you! 20191117_162832.jpg 20191117_163135.jpg
 

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taricha

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I guess I'm confused. Is the consensus for or against Vibrant? I'm getting the feeling that the Vibrant isn't all that it's cracked up to be. It certainly hasn't done anything noticeable for my tanks.
There are many things that work for some people some of the time. Vibrant's mechanisms are difficult to blend with the themes of this thread.

@GoldeneyeRet I think I replied elsewhere that these are coolia dinos.

I think you're right I absolutely need a UV. Just did a major blast of the rockwork and bottom of the tank. Had a ton of stuff floating around and dinos just reaggregate. Tank looks like garbage and so far dosing NO3/PO4 hasn't made things look much better just a solid matting of hair algae under the cyano and dinos.
Agree on the UV. Also maybe think about how to increase export.
Everyone focuses on what should go into a tank. But what comes out matters a whole lot in battling dinos.
 

taricha

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File this under things that we thought were anecdotal, or had weak evidence in their favor for fighting dinos - but actually are looking like strong effects.
the first big one was Bacterial activity generally.
and now...
Eli at Aquabiomics is doing some fantastic work with DNA analysis of hobbyist tank microbes. It may not be definitive yet, but he's currently of the opinion that there is no substitute for real actual live rock in establishing a resilient and diverse bacterial population. And he has more data than anyone else on this question.
...In my replicated tank cycling experiments (I am really almost done with this article now) I found a striking effect. Night and day. The live rock treatment that produced high diversity also avoided ugly algae blooms, and the sand has remained white for the entire 6 months theyve been established. The dry rock tanks went through all the ugly stages you'd expect and remain ugly today...
Click through to read the whole post. It's eye-opening. I'll be following his info closely, but I think we know enough at this point to say that real live rock is a definite positive intervention.

[my caveat: if your tank is covered in brown, throwing a few live rocks in will make only a small, temporary difference. That was tried long ago. But if the dino presence can be knocked down to barely detectable first, then it may go differently.]
 

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I think you're right I absolutely need a UV. Just did a major blast of the rockwork and bottom of the tank. Had a ton of stuff floating around and dinos just reaggregate. Tank looks like garbage and so far dosing NO3/PO4 hasn't made things look much better just a solid matting of hair algae under the cyano and dinos.

Would a 25w UV work for a Red Sea Reefer 250 (total volume of 65 gallons)?
Yes that will work. 1 watt per 3 gallons seems to be enough. Flow through it should be slow 3-400 gph or as slow as the manufacturer minimum. To and from the display, not the sump.

You have ostreopsis, correct?

When my dinos were at their worst, I would clamp filter floss (the white/blue stuff) onto the sides of the tank in high flow and light areas. The dinos liked to grab on there. Made it easier to export some of the snot every night. And yeah, the tank looked like trash with hoses, UV and floss all over it.
 

ScottB

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Been battling dinos for several months and all my corals have taken a bit of a hit. All SPS is gone. My acans have receded and now my euphillia have started to react. My hammer has had two polyp bailouts in the past few weeks. My frogspawn has also been receding. Any thoughts on if this is normal when dealing with dinos? I've been keeping N and P levels up as well as blowing off the rocks/sand nightly. Running 55w Jebao in display as well.

Alk: 9.0
Cal: 375
MG: 1380
PO4: .08
N: 13

You can see the hammers (red circle) with two bailouts. The green circle contains duncans that have been heavily receded for over a month. The coral has a fuzzy material on it that doesn't blow off.

InkedCoral Issues_LI.jpg
During my outbreak (ostreopsis) LPS and SPS were certainly unhappy. 2 Part consumption went down to almost nothing. Mortality was limited thankfully to a few acan and blasto heads and some birdsnest.

Your nutrients look good just keep them there. Hopefully that fuzz is some competitive algae for the dinos. Hang in there.
 

taricha

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When my dinos were at their worst, I would clamp filter floss (the white/blue stuff) onto the sides of the tank in high flow and light areas. The dinos liked to grab on there. Made it easier to export some of the snot every night.
This is very underrated. It's cheap, effective and exports exclusively dinos.
 
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