Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Pennywise the Clown

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Probably small cell amphidinium. See Dino guide I mentioned in the last post. (Unless they are red. Then they aren't a dino at all, but a cryptomonas or rhodomonas.)
Thanks, definitely sounds like small cell amphidinium.
I'm not going to take too much action other than keep nutrients up and dose Microbactor 7.
Hopefully that will keep them at bay. I'll have my UV on standby alert just incase.
 

pharazon

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Well, it didn’t take long for dino’s to join the diatom party. This is my third go-round with them in a little less than two years. Tank is chronically ULR.

They look like Ostreopsis to me, but they don’t seem to become free-swimming at night. The sand bed population definitely waxed and wanes, but the ones that coat the frag racks and frag plugs stay put 24/7.

I popped in a 9W Green Killing Machine (25g net volume) but don’t have the most faith in it. I was just getting ready to upgrade too. :( Maybe I should, and just strap a larger UV to the new tank. But I’d really like to beat these suckers (again) before I put the system through even more stress.

Here’s a pic just to be sure of ID:

D41C1981-E8B5-43B0-9AA1-FC4D13191B89.jpeg
 

dwest

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Well, it didn’t take long for dino’s to join the diatom party. This is my third go-round with them in a little less than two years. Tank is chronically ULR.

They look like Ostreopsis to me, but they don’t seem to become free-swimming at night. The sand bed population definitely waxed and wanes, but the ones that coat the frag racks and frag plugs stay put 24/7.

I popped in a 9W Green Killing Machine (25g net volume) but don’t have the most faith in it. I was just getting ready to upgrade too. :( Maybe I should, and just strap a larger UV to the new tank. But I’d really like to beat these suckers (again) before I put the system through even more stress.

Here’s a pic just to be sure of ID:

D41C1981-E8B5-43B0-9AA1-FC4D13191B89.jpeg
Agree with ostreopsis.
 

taricha

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Wanted to follow up as there's been an update on this...

File this under things that we thought were anecdotal, or had weak evidence in their favor for fighting dinos - but actually are looking like strong effects.
the first big one was Bacterial activity generally.
and now...
Eli at Aquabiomics is doing some fantastic work with DNA analysis of hobbyist tank microbes. It may not be definitive yet, but he's currently of the opinion that there is no substitute for real actual live rock in establishing a resilient and diverse bacterial population. And he has more data than anyone else on this question.


Click through to read the whole post. It's eye-opening. I'll be following his info closely, but I think we know enough at this point to say that real live rock is a definite positive intervention.

[my caveat: if your tank is covered in brown, throwing a few live rocks in will make only a small, temporary difference. That was tried long ago. But if the dino presence can be knocked down to barely detectable first, then it may go differently.]

Eli at @AquaBiomics has now posted a detailed article with supporting information for this.
Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock
Strongly recommend the read and here's the pic that's the best advertisement for the article I can give.
uglies-tanks-pic.jpg

Those are duplicate tanks after 3 months under different rock starting conditions.
 

drawman

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Pennywise the Clown

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Any thoughts on feeding Reef Roids and the potential to fuel dinos?
I have stopped dosing Red Sea Reef Energy but would still like to give my corals some food.
 

dking271

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I’m beginning to think I will win the battle with Ostreopsis. I’m three months into this fight that started after beginning to dose Vibrant. The Vibrant crashed my nutrients which were already low down to undetectable levels. I tried to continue with Vibrant which only made it worse. Then I tried blackouts with peroxide dosing which didn’t do much a few days out of the blackout. I started doing Dr Tim’s 12 day dosing and blackouts and saw a huge improvement after two rounds. I was hanging filter pads every day which pulled out a good amount at first and seemed to keep the bulk off of the rocks and corals. I have been dosing phosphates and nitrates as the daily pad has been getting cleaner. I currently have my nitrates between 5-10 and my phosphates at .08. I’m on the third day of a blackout and believe that I will have them completely beaten back after this is complete.

For all the others that are currently fighting the fight. Stay persistent and do not give up.
 

ScottB

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I’m beginning to think I will win the battle with Ostreopsis. I’m three months into this fight that started after beginning to dose Vibrant. The Vibrant crashed my nutrients which were already low down to undetectable levels. I tried to continue with Vibrant which only made it worse. Then I tried blackouts with peroxide dosing which didn’t do much a few days out of the blackout. I started doing Dr Tim’s 12 day dosing and blackouts and saw a huge improvement after two rounds. I was hanging filter pads every day which pulled out a good amount at first and seemed to keep the bulk off of the rocks and corals. I have been dosing phosphates and nitrates as the daily pad has been getting cleaner. I currently have my nitrates between 5-10 and my phosphates at .08. I’m on the third day of a blackout and believe that I will have them completely beaten back after this is complete.

For all the others that are currently fighting the fight. Stay persistent and do not give up.

Glad to hear you can see the light at the end of the...tank?
Are you running UV to/from the display?
 

dking271

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Glad to hear you can see the light at the end of the...tank?
Are you running UV to/from the display?

I elected to wage this war without the use of UV. I have studied UV lights and decided the extra spend to get something that I knew would work weren’t justified. The more affordable units seemed to be very inconclusive on their respective effectiveness. At this point, I believe it is not necessary for me to successfully eradicate Dino. A few years ago I successfully beat Dino while running a low nutrient system running a bio-pellet reactor. This is part of the reason that the bacteria methods make sense to me. Like walking a tight rope, the key is finding the balance of a tank. I dosed my tanks up to the point where the nutrients stayed constant without water changes. Once I resume water changes I know exactly where the tank is balanced with the current bio-load.
 

cobra2326

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@pharazon So I've had UV running for several weeks no with basically no improvement. If anything things have gotten worse. It's a 10g Nuvo fusion, with a 8W Green Killing Machine UV. It's running inside the main display.

Nitrates are about 2ppm, Phosphates about 0.2ppm.
 

ScottB

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@pharazon So I've had UV running for several weeks no with basically no improvement. If anything things have gotten worse. It's a 10g Nuvo fusion, with a 8W Green Killing Machine UV. It's running inside the main display.

Nitrates are about 2ppm, Phosphates about 0.2ppm.

Which species are you dealing with cobra?
 

cobra2326

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Which species are you dealing with cobra?

I posted a video above, it looks like Ostreopsis. I've been running floss in the tank and am able to export quite a bit of it every day, but it's not really changing from day-to-day or even week-to-week.
 

ScottB

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I posted a video above, it looks like Ostreopsis. I've been running floss in the tank and am able to export quite a bit of it every day, but it's not really changing from day-to-day or even week-to-week.

Right. I do see ostreopsis for sure. Uncertain if there is a second species in there. Nobody clinging to the sand though, right?

8 watts on a 10G should be plenty. You comfortable that the bulb is running? Guess I would also suggest raising your nitrate level well above 10 until you start seeing some cyano. Then you know you are getting closer.
 

cobra2326

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Right. I do see ostreopsis for sure. Uncertain if there is a second species in there. Nobody clinging to the sand though, right?

8 watts on a 10G should be plenty. You comfortable that the bulb is running? Guess I would also suggest raising your nitrate level well above 10 until you start seeing some cyano. Then you know you are getting closer.

Interesting that you mention cyano. I hadn't been paying attention to the tank for a few months (it's coral-only, no fish), and the dinos had subsided, replaced with Cyano. Nitrates were almost zero, so I did a water change, siphoned the Cyano out, and started dosing nitrates and here I am, with another Dino outbreak.

Do you have any insight into what to do once the Cyano stage hits?
 

ScottB

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Interesting that you mention cyano. I hadn't been paying attention to the tank for a few months (it's coral-only, no fish), and the dinos had subsided, replaced with Cyano. Nitrates were almost zero, so I did a water change, siphoned the Cyano out, and started dosing nitrates and here I am, with another Dino outbreak.

Do you have any insight into what to do once the Cyano stage hits?

On my third round so I really should be getting better at this but I get distracted once the dinos dissipate and the cyano comes in. I let my nutrients drop. Or, think I am in the clear and start back with Aminos and coral food solutions and remove the unsightly UV bazooka. Or increase my refugium light schedule. Or some mix of these.

Dinos never leave. They just lurk once you've "beaten" them until you let nutrient go down again. Or you reintroduce their favorite foods. I hate NOT doing WCs as I know elements are depleting. Makes me wish I was a Triton method guy sometimes.

What to do? My best guess is to continue some nutrient dosing to keep at least .1 and 10 for PO4 and NO3. Manual removal of cyano. Wait forever before aminos. Adding some biological diversity in every way safely possible. Old rock, sand, fish, etc.

Your tank is going to be different without fish; I rely on fish poop a lot.
 

taricha

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If it were my tank post-dinos, this would be the order I'd do when going back towards "normal".
Water changes - start slow maybe a week or two after dinos gone.
UV - reduce to night only after a few weeks of water changes still don't create dino resurgence, then gradually phase it out.
Aminos and coral foods - these are such strong dino supporters that it would be months after dinos were gone and the tank has had no sign or memory of dinos before I would try adding these back.
Just my thoughts.
 
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