Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[ScottB]

While I am a bit baffled about the transitions ( small Amphid to clear to 5X ostreo) I applaud the change in plumbing to/from DT. Think about your water flows if the return pump fails. You will flood the sump. Don't ask me how I know this

Back to the problem... Are you keeping NO3 and PO4 elevated? No dosing of aminos, correct? Ostreos in the sand is... less common IME. Are you certain it is not large cell amphids that are more common & persistent in sand?

 

[Eclyps19]

While I am a bit baffled about the transitions ( small Amphid to clear to 5X ostreo) I applaud the change in plumbing to/from DT. Think about your water flows if the return pump fails. You will flood the sump. Don't ask me how I know this

Back to the problem... Are you keeping NO3 and PO4 elevated? No dosing of aminos, correct? Ostreos in the sand is... less common IME. Are you certain it is not large cell amphids that are more common & persistent in sand?

Pretty certain that they are ostreo. these are all that I’m still seeing.

as for my n03 and p04, these are around 10 and 0.07 respectively. I test about every other day and keep them in check.

 

[ScottB]

Hang in there @Eclyps19

Sorry for doubting. Yes ostreopsis and those are good values. Don't be afraid to go a bit higher and certainly no lower at this point. Maybe a lights out period to force them into the water column would knock them back a bit. @taricha a little confirm on this?

 

[JCOLE]

Ok so after battling Dino's after using Vibrant and Winning(So I thought) I now have them again. My question is it common for Dino's to stay isolated into a certain area of the system? I have a 150 gallon diplay tank plumbed into my garage. It plumbs in a 40 gallon sump which has another return pump that feeds a 20 gallon refugium, 55 watt UV, carbon reactor, and a 50 gallon low boy frag tank. I dosed NO3 and PO4 and Dino's cleared up after about 2 weeks. They cleared up for a month or so. Dino's have hit hard after installing the 50 gallon low boy but they are only in the low boy and I cannot get rid of them. I have no Dinos in the fuge, sump, and display tank.

Is this just cause the low boy tank is new? If so, what would be the suggestion?

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Update on my ostreopsis dinos. UV has been helping and I've had my skimmer shut off for a couple of weeks. Tank is getting a little dirty and I have a big GHA takeover which I need to tackle so the skimmer will be going back on soon. Dinos are definitely still there but I would say they are in stasis and more manageable.

Oddly enough I will say my ostreopsis dinos appear to be a little different. They do not completely go into the water column at night. I know a few others have noticed this also. All my tested samples have been ostreopsis only.

This is exactly my situation only I have kept my skimmer on, doing some manual removal by syphon and running a a 10 micron filter sock a few times a week.

 

[ScottB]

Ok so after battling Dino's after using Vibrant and Winning(So I thought) I now have them again. My question is it common for Dino's to stay isolated into a certain area of the system? I have a 150 gallon diplay tank plumbed into my garage. It plumbs in a 40 gallon sump which has another return pump that feeds a 20 gallon refugium, 55 watt UV, carbon reactor, and a 50 gallon low boy frag tank. I dosed NO3 and PO4 and Dino's cleared up after about 2 weeks. They cleared up for a month or so. Dino's have hit hard after installing the 50 gallon low boy but they are only in the low boy and I cannot get rid of them. I have no Dinos in the fuge, sump, and display tank.

Is this just cause the low boy tank is new? If so, what would be the suggestion?

Well, if we are talking about ostreopsis dinos, I can tell you definitively that YES they are delighted to stay in a discrete tank within a connected system. And YES, it will be whatever "NEW" tank you add to the system. Finally I have found someone who understands what I am/was going through! Hallelujah! @taricha are you reading this?

My story:
In addition to a nice, safe, SPS dominant display system, I have a separate frag system in the basement. It began as just a single breeder tank, but now has 3 tanks and 2 sumps composing 260g. Each time I added a new tank to the system it is hit with a dino bloom. But just the new one. The other tank(s) and sump(s) show nothing. I wrote about this repeatedly in this thread starting a year ago or so. It was bizarre.

So I ended up just moving my UV from tank to tank and got better about dumping a LOAD of fish into the last new tank. (And yes, I still dose NO3 and PO4.)

I should also point out that even though you "beat" dinos before, you only had them in temporary submission. They were just awaiting opportunity. (I still take scrapings under the microscope and the dinos are there.) You gave them some space with the low boy where no bacterial film, film algae, coralline, or other algae existed. You also (by 50 gallon dilution) reduced nutrient for the aforementioned competitors to compete or displace the opportunistic dinos.

Takeaways?
a) Dinos never go away completely
b) If you had them, plan for their return if you expand
c) If adding capacity, run separate if you can to allow bacterial film, film algae, coralline, or other algae to get a grip.
d) Otherwise dirty up the system immediately to confuse the dino b******s.

 

[ScottB]

Ok so after battling Dino's after using Vibrant and Winning(So I thought) I now have them again. My question is it common for Dino's to stay isolated into a certain area of the system? I have a 150 gallon diplay tank plumbed into my garage. It plumbs in a 40 gallon sump which has another return pump that feeds a 20 gallon refugium, 55 watt UV, carbon reactor, and a 50 gallon low boy frag tank. I dosed NO3 and PO4 and Dino's cleared up after about 2 weeks. They cleared up for a month or so. Dino's have hit hard after installing the 50 gallon low boy but they are only in the low boy and I cannot get rid of them. I have no Dinos in the fuge, sump, and display tank.

Is this just cause the low boy tank is new? If so, what would be the suggestion?

Forgot to ask: do you have an ID on the dinos?

 

[ScottB]

@drawman and @DesertReefT4r can you remind us:

a) current nutrient levels NO3 and PO4
b) UV lighting parameters

Sorry to ask as you've typed this already. Mostly lazy; kinda busy. Just trying to help.

 

[JCOLE]

Well, if we are talking about ostreopsis dinos, I can tell you definitively that YES they are delighted to stay in a discrete tank within a connected system. And YES, it will be whatever "NEW" tank you add to the system. Finally I have found someone who understands what I am/was going through! Hallelujah! @taricha are you reading this?

My story:
In addition to a nice, safe, SPS dominant display system, I have a separate frag system in the basement. It began as just a single breeder tank, but now has 3 tanks and 2 sumps composing 260g. Each time I added a new tank to the system it is hit with a dino bloom. But just the new one. The other tank(s) and sump(s) show nothing. I wrote about this repeatedly in this thread starting a year ago or so. It was bizarre.

So I ended up just moving my UV from tank to tank and got better about dumping a LOAD of fish into the last new tank. (And yes, I still dose NO3 and PO4.)

I should also point out that even though you "beat" dinos before, you only had them in temporary submission. They were just awaiting opportunity. (I still take scrapings under the microscope and the dinos are there.) You gave them some space with the low boy where no bacterial film, film algae, coralline, or other algae existed. You also (by 50 gallon dilution) reduced nutrient for the aforementioned competitors to compete or displace the opportunistic dinos.

Takeaways?
a) Dinos never go away completely
b) If you had them, plan for their return if you expand
c) If adding capacity, run separate if you can to allow bacterial film, film algae, coralline, or other algae to get a grip.
d) Otherwise dirty up the system immediately to confuse the dino b******s.

You are making it sound like we need to throw a DINO party. Lol.

Maybe just maybe this might be the answer to DINOS! Add something new to a tank that has an existing Dino problem and let the dinos take over the new clean tank and stay until gone. Maybe have (2) new sterile 10 gallon tanks on hand. Hook one up let dinos take over then remove. If they come back then add the second sterile tank and sterilize the old one during this process. Then repeat if necessary.

Kinda like a Dino Fuge.

Maybe, just maybe this might work?

 

[JCOLE]

Forgot to ask: do you have an ID on the dinos?

Not this go around. I had Ostreopsis a couple of months ago. They are back again with the same snotty bubbly crap as before.

 

[JCOLE]

This might be it!! I went through photos on my phone looking at dates. I will post photos and dates and explain tomorrow. To much for my phone.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

@drawman and @DesertReefT4r can you remind us:

a) current nutrient levels NO3 and PO4
b) UV lighting parameters

Sorry to ask as you've typed this already. Mostly lazy; kinda busy. Just trying to help.

A) no3 10-15 ppm po4 0.07 as of last weeks testing, po4 was at 0.21 but has been dropping from algae growth
B) 9w in tank UV on a 75g display, small be seems effective.

 

[Potatohead]

Brought a sample from my tank to work because I thought we had a pretty trick microscope - But this is the highest zoom it will do

They are mostly on the sandbed, I do also get some on the rocks but it mainly grows on any remaining turf algae on the rocks, which is not all that much. Where coralline grows, this stuff doesn't. About 80% of it goes away after lights out. It also doesn't really get snotty with the bubbles like some real bad cases you see, it's more like dust.

I have 70g of water volume and am *this* close to buying either a 24w Green Killing Machine or a 55w Jebao (prefer the former unless it isn't big enough?) but I was hoping to verify it it would help or not before purchasing. I guess it cannot hurt at this point.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Brought a sample from my tank to work because I thought we had a pretty trick microscope - But this is the highest zoom it will do

They are mostly on the sandbed, I do also get some on the rocks but it mainly grows on any remaining turf algae on the rocks, which is not all that much. Where coralline grows, this stuff doesn't. About 80% of it goes away after lights out. It also doesn't really get snotty with the bubbles like some real bad cases you see, it's more like dust.

I have 70g of water volume and am *this* close to buying either a 24w Green Killing Machine or a 55w Jebao (prefer the former unless it isn't big enough?) but I was hoping to verify it it would help or not before purchasing. I guess it cannot hurt at this point.

Looks like dinos. We need at least 400x magnification to get an ID on it. A cheap $20 microscope from ebay or amazon will work fine. I would go ahead and add the UV and yes the bigger the better also have it pull water directly from the display not the sump. Stop all water changes until the tank has been clear of dinos for 3-4 weeks, no trace element dosing but kalk calrx and balling method 2 parts are fine, make sure your no3 is at least 10 ppm and po4 is at least 0.07-0.10, no coral foods like Reef Roids ect.

 

[Potatohead]

Looks like dinos. We need at least 400x magnification to get an ID on it. A cheap $20 microscope from ebay or amazon will work fine. I would go ahead and add the UV and yes the bigger the better also have it pull water directly from the display not the sump. Stop all water changes until the tank has been clear of dinos for 3-4 weeks, no trace element dosing but kalk calrx and balling method 2 parts are fine, make sure your no3 is at least 10 ppm and po4 is at least 0.07-0.10, no coral foods like Reef Roids ect.

Yeah I don't have much to lose. Honestly have been battling this for two years or more, always thought it was cyano because it's a dark red color. So annoying. Wish I read this thread a long time ago.

 

[drawman]

@drawman and @DesertReefT4r can you remind us:

a) current nutrient levels NO3 and PO4
b) UV lighting parameters

Sorry to ask as you've typed this already. Mostly lazy; kinda busy. Just trying to help.

Hey @ScottB I appreciate the dialogue back and forth I've been lazy with the tank too. A lot of the dirtying up I've done has allowed hair algae to completely take over so I need to really attack things. I'll have to get some current NO3/PO4 readings this weekend. UV is a 25w AquaUV to/from display but I'm still running it only at night.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Oh man! I think I am slowly winning here. Every day there is a little bit less dino in the display, today it looks the best it has in weeks. Well other than the hair algae but that will be another battle I will need to fight carefully. Still little patches of dino so its not over yet. Corals are doing well still so thats a good sign, I was super nervous about adding any coral after the dino crash.

 

[LadyTang2]

Do the people here agree that generally live rock is better than dry rock for preventing dinos in the first place?

 

[ScottB]

Do the people here agree that generally live rock is better than dry rock for preventing dinos in the first place?

Hmmm. That is not a correlation I've thought of before. I probably should have. My display system has all live rock (some very very old) and has never had dinos even though nutrients ran low for months and months.

My frag system only has some old rock in the sump -- and not much of it relative to water volume. And I just completed my third round with dinos (ostreopsis) there. Anecdotally supports your thesis.

So as just a thought exercise... the potential dino countering benefits of old live rock:
a) A potential store of PO4 that can release it into the water when nutrients get low
b) bacterial diversity score
c) microfauna diversity
d) a potential store of all kinds of competitive spore, cysts, critters, pods...
e) living algae

Other?
Counter arguments?

 

[drawman]

Hmmm. That is not a correlation I've thought of before. I probably should have. My display system has all live rock (some very very old) and has never had dinos even though nutrients ran low for months and months.

My frag system only has some old rock in the sump -- and not much of it relative to water volume. And I just completed my third round with dinos (ostreopsis) there. Anecdotally supports your thesis.

So as just a thought exercise... the potential dino countering benefits of old live rock:
a) A potential store of PO4 that can release it into the water when nutrients get low
b) bacterial diversity score
c) microfauna diversity
d) a potential store of all kinds of competitive spore, cysts, critters, pods...
e) living algae

Other?
Counter arguments?

I think these are all spot on as potential contributing factors.