Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

ScottB

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Can someone help with identification and a question? There is a small brown dusting in the sand, but today when cleaning the chaeto, I found part of it covered with the brown goop and air bubbles. I took a sample of it and put it under the microscope. I have to say that these guys where not the majority of the organisms, there was a pletora of pods, nematods among others. The question I have is besides increasing PO4 (currently 0.02) and NO3 (currently at 5ppm). How do I increase biodiversity in the system [which bact in a bottle, live rock (started with dry rocks), fiji mud, more amphipods]?

Jose
The beak looks like amphidinium.

I went with live rock from a very old system. I won't say it changed anything overnight, but has kept me clear since.
 

christwendt

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Hello can you guys please help me ID this. I’ve been having bad stuff growing tried everything. The first step was to get a positive ID. This is the best pic I could get but from my eyes it seems like Dino’s. Is this good enough to ID ?

34C059B8-D3CE-436D-8937-486B81BF704D.jpeg
 

christwendt

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Looks like ostreopsis. Time to purchase a good UV unit
Someone said in the thread I posted to do no lights for 4 days and dose hydrogen peroxide with adding bacteria daily. They didn’t mention a UV. Is that another possible option ? I’d rather wait to get a UV for when I get my next tank.
 

CDavmd

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Someone said in the thread I posted to do no lights for 4 days and dose hydrogen peroxide with adding bacteria daily. They didn’t mention a UV. Is that another possible option ? I’d rather wait to get a UV for when I get my next tank.

I’ve had no success with blackouts peroxide and bacteria. In my opinion you just set them back along with all their competitors. They will simply come back a week later stronger. Bacteria help but will not solve the problem. You are lucky it’s ostreopsis that goes into the water column. UV will work and I strongly recommend you consider one. Also run carbon as this species is very toxic.
 

christwendt

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I’ve had no success with blackouts peroxide and bacteria. In my opinion you just set them back along with all their competitors. They will simply come back a week later stronger. Bacteria help but will not solve the problem. You are lucky it’s ostreopsis that goes into the water column. UV will work and I strongly recommend you consider one. Also run carbon as this species is very toxic.
I use chemiclean clean nano packets. Should I just replace those with all new ones as I do this treatment for Dino’s ? Thank you for your input. Do you happen to know if it’s possible to get a nice uv sterilizer that will work for this 20 gallon AIO and then my 75 gallon upgrade ? Or is that too much of a disparity. They make nano UV sterilizers.
 

ScottB

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Someone said in the thread I posted to do no lights for 4 days and dose hydrogen peroxide with adding bacteria daily. They didn’t mention a UV. Is that another possible option ? I’d rather wait to get a UV for when I get my next tank.

Ostreopsis are so easy to manage with the "consensus" method. If you had Amphidinium, I'd say do whatever floats your boat. But ostreos are just too easy to do the right way. I would not bother with anything else.

a) Dose PO4 and NO3 to .1 and 10 respectively
b) Run a UV TO/FROM the DISPLAY itself. Not the sump. 1 watt per 3 gallons. Slow flow. Assuming your next tank is going to be larger, then buy for that size. For ostreopsis, UV will finish them in a month easy peasy.
c) Manual removal of dinos. Clamp filter floss to the glass in high flow/light areas. Rinse each evening before lights out.
d) Baste the dinos of surfaces as often as possible.
e) Run activated carbon to reduce toxins.

If you do ALL of these you will see a difference in a few days to a week. Remission in two to three weeks.

Yeah, I have seen the H2O2 remedy around here a hundred times with spotty results. Heck, a rare few used bleach to good effect apparently.

Dinos took over due to imbalance. Oxidizers create more imbalance. Not for me.
 

christwendt

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Ostreopsis are so easy to manage with the "consensus" method. If you had Amphidinium, I'd say do whatever floats your boat. But ostreos are just too easy to do the right way. I would not bother with anything else.

a) Dose PO4 and NO3 to .1 and 10 respectively
b) Run a UV TO/FROM the DISPLAY itself. Not the sump. 1 watt per 3 gallons. Slow flow. Assuming your next tank is going to be larger, then buy for that size. For ostreopsis, UV will finish them in a month easy peasy.
c) Manual removal of dinos. Clamp filter floss to the glass in high flow/light areas. Rinse each evening before lights out.
d) Baste the dinos of surfaces as often as possible.
e) Run activated carbon to reduce toxins.

If you do ALL of these you will see a difference in a few days to a week. Remission in two to three weeks.

Yeah, I have seen the H2O2 remedy around here a hundred times with spotty results. Heck, a rare few used bleach to good effect apparently.

Dinos took over due to imbalance. Oxidizers create more imbalance. Not for me.
You are the best I love this forum. Such a wealth of knowledge from reefers :) I’m going to sticky this. Really appreciate the detailed response. if you don’t mind I plant to upgrade to a 50-75 gallon tank in a year. I currently have a nano 20 gallon AIO. Here are what I’ve seen from bulk feed supply. From my understanding this is a lasting purchase ? I just have to replace UV bulb every couple years ?

BA58D21E-C8E3-4A13-9703-125127C3C124.png F6A38167-AEED-4698-8763-6F558D299602.png 2FA563D3-67FC-463B-84D0-BFEEE093A577.png
 

christwendt

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Ostreopsis are so easy to manage with the "consensus" method. If you had Amphidinium, I'd say do whatever floats your boat. But ostreos are just too easy to do the right way. I would not bother with anything else.

a) Dose PO4 and NO3 to .1 and 10 respectively
b) Run a UV TO/FROM the DISPLAY itself. Not the sump. 1 watt per 3 gallons. Slow flow. Assuming your next tank is going to be larger, then buy for that size. For ostreopsis, UV will finish them in a month easy peasy.
c) Manual removal of dinos. Clamp filter floss to the glass in high flow/light areas. Rinse each evening before lights out.
d) Baste the dinos of surfaces as often as possible.
e) Run activated carbon to reduce toxins.

If you do ALL of these you will see a difference in a few days to a week. Remission in two to three weeks.

Yeah, I have seen the H2O2 remedy around here a hundred times with spotty results. Heck, a rare few used bleach to good effect apparently.

Dinos took over due to imbalance. Oxidizers create more imbalance. Not for me.
Seriously thank you. You broke that down so nicely.
 

ScottB

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I use chemiclean clean nano packets. Should I just replace those with all new ones as I do this treatment for Dino’s ? Thank you for your input. Do you happen to know if it’s possible to get a nice uv sterilizer that will work for this 20 gallon AIO and then my 75 gallon upgrade ? Or is that too much of a disparity. They make nano UV sterilizers.

Chuck the chemiclean in your neighbors trash can and never buy it again. Unless you run a really dirty system, you will end up back here again.

UV: pony up for an AquaUV 25 watt. Get some hose to run it to/from the display. It will be a very ugly and very temporary install on your 20G system. But the ostreos won't stand a chance. Once you get your 75, you can install it in the sump/return for maintenance.

If you opt for a Green Killing machine, it will work for this 20G, but be sure to chuck it in your neighbor's trash once the 20G is solved for. They disintegrate quickly.

Ahh, just seeing your post. Yes, the Pentair is also fine ( I have read here). From personal experience it is AquaUV but Pentair gets decent reviews.

Lastly, you are welcome. Thousands of us have been there and learned from this thread. Ostreos are toxic, they smell, but they are the easiest to eradicate if you pull each lever. You will likely end up with some cyano for a bit. Then some algae. Neither are toxic; both can be SLOWLY managed away.

Have fun.
 

christwendt

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Chuck the chemiclean in your neighbors trash can and never buy it again. Unless you run a really dirty system, you will end up back here again.

UV: pony up for an AquaUV 25 watt. Get some hose to run it to/from the display. It will be a very ugly and very temporary install on your 20G system. But the ostreos won't stand a chance. Once you get your 75, you can install it in the sump/return for maintenance.

If you opt for a Green Killing machine, it will work for this 20G, but be sure to chuck it in your neighbor's trash once the 20G is solved for. They disintegrate quickly.

Ahh, just seeing your post. Yes, the Pentair is also fine ( I have read here). From personal experience it is AquaUV but Pentair gets decent reviews.

Lastly, you are welcome. Thousands of us have been there and learned from this thread. Ostreos are toxic, they smell, but they are the easiest to eradicate if you pull each lever. You will likely end up with some cyano for a bit. Then some algae. Neither are toxic; both can be SLOWLY managed away.

Have fun.
The chemiclean since I took my refugium off (Chaeto in AIO sump) I’m maintaining 4ppm nitrate and tbh my phosphates can get kinda high still 0.5 max feeding twice a day , and adding amino acids daily. What should I implement you think aside from chemiclean ? I feel like I need carbon and gfo in this tank since I removed the refugium ( the refugium is what caused this Dino’s I had zero nitrates for a month )
I will purchase the awuauv then since it’s 50$ and then get a nice big one for my upgrade when I upgrade. Thanks again Scott :)
 

ScottB

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I use chemiclean clean nano packets. Should I just replace those with all new ones as I do this treatment for Dino’s ? Thank you for your input. Do you happen to know if it’s possible to get a nice uv sterilizer that will work for this 20 gallon AIO and then my 75 gallon upgrade ? Or is that too much of a disparity. They make nano UV sterilizers.

Wait. Chemiclean or ChemiPure?

You already know how I feel about Chemiclean. ChemiPure is good for regular maintenance -- as long as you have surplus PO4 and NO3.
 

ScottB

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The chemiclean since I took my refugium off (Chaeto in AIO sump) I’m maintaining 4ppm nitrate and tbh my phosphates can get kinda high still 0.5 max feeding twice a day , and adding amino acids daily. What should I implement you think aside from chemiclean ? I feel like I need carbon and gfo in this tank since I removed the refugium ( the refugium is what caused this Dino’s I had zero nitrates for a month )
I will purchase the awuauv then since it’s 50$ and then get a nice big one for my upgrade when I upgrade. Thanks again Scott :)
I am a fan of refugiums, but you do have to be feeding a ton of fish to make it balance out safely. I feed fish super heavy.

About aminos... I suggest you put those away for a while as dinos process them faster than anyone else can. They have a place, but only once the dinos are gone. I can conjure a dino bloom just by opening the basement fridge...

IMG-4615.jpg
 

christwendt

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Wait. Chemiclean or ChemiPure?

You already know how I feel about Chemiclean. ChemiPure is good for regular maintenance -- as long as you have surplus PO4 and NO3.
Oh nice catch! I meant chemipure blue nano. That is the carbon and gfo I use to maintain levels and I hear carbon is good for the type of Dino’s I have. Also great point about the aminos I don’t want to feed the Dino’s. I’ll hold off on that. You must have a big tank with all those nutrients in your fridge haha. Someday I love this hobby so much and this 20 gallon has been so much fun for my first tank even tho it’s hard.
 

ScottB

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Oh nice catch! I meant chemipure blue nano. That is the carbon and gfo I use to maintain levels and I hear carbon is good for the type of Dino’s I have. Also great point about the aminos I don’t want to feed the Dino’s. I’ll hold off on that. You must have a big tank with all those nutrients in your fridge haha. Someday I love this hobby so much and this 20 gallon has been so much fun for my first tank even tho it’s hard.
Chemi Blue is fine no troubles there.

Agree the hobby is a ton of fun. An amazingly blend of art and (mostly) science which I was never all that good at. Small systems are actually quite challenging. Large systems also, but in a very different way. Slow changes. Always slow, so you can watch how corals react.

Unless there is "trouble", I only test salinity, ALK, NO3 and PO4 every few days. Only Hanna ULR for PO4. The rest is personal preference.
 

christwendt

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Chemi Blue is fine no troubles there.

Agree the hobby is a ton of fun. An amazingly blend of art and (mostly) science which I was never all that good at. Small systems are actually quite challenging. Large systems also, but in a very different way. Slow changes. Always slow, so you can watch how corals react.

Unless there is "trouble", I only test salinity, ALK, NO3 and PO4 every few days. Only Hanna ULR for PO4. The rest is personal preference.
If you don’t mind sharing what are the challenges in a bigger system? The water changes ? Keeping nutrients high enough ? I also use the Hannah ULR along with Hannah salinity and Hannah DKH. You don’t test Calc and mg? Replace with water changes ?
 

christwendt

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Chemi Blue is fine no troubles there.

Agree the hobby is a ton of fun. An amazingly blend of art and (mostly) science which I was never all that good at. Small systems are actually quite challenging. Large systems also, but in a very different way. Slow changes. Always slow, so you can watch how corals react.

Unless there is "trouble", I only test salinity, ALK, NO3 and PO4 every few days. Only Hanna ULR for PO4. The rest is personal preference.
If you don’t mind sharing what are the challenges in a bigger system? The water changes ? Keeping nutrients high enough ? I also use the Hannah ULR along with Hannah salinity and Hannah DKH. You don’t test Calc and mg? Replace with water changes ?
 

ScottB

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If you don’t mind sharing what are the challenges in a bigger system? The water changes ? Keeping nutrients high enough ? I also use the Hannah ULR along with Hannah salinity and Hannah DKH. You don’t test Calc and mg? Replace with water changes ?
The ease of a big system is dilution of your mistakes. Heat, salinity, base elements, trace elements etc -- it all happens slower. The challenge of larger system is worthy of a new thread, but it is really about volume. In my case 440G is 22X yours in food, heat, cool, light, flow, filtration, water change, scrubbing etc. A bit more time; a ton more money. So worth it though when it makes sense.

My big three are ALK, NO3 and PO4. Mg and Ca just don't change that much. I test maybe quarterly unless something looks "off" or my ALK tests look strange.
 

Marc2952

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Ok so my tank has been clean of dinos for a cople of weeks and phosphates have finally stabilized. My question is now i introduced ich to my tank after gling through the struggle of going fallow before ( my guess is it came from a reef cleaner cuc package i bought 2 weeks ago) the thing is will removing all the fish again
 

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