Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Miko2019]

Have you quit water changes? Have you quit skimming?

I have quit with water changes, but skimmer is still running.

 

[Snoopdog]

I have quit with water changes, but skimmer is still running.

Just my two cents, so take it for what it is. I would be reluctant to make a go at this with chemicals. I am guessing your tank is not mature? Do you have any live rock at all? Turn off your skimmer. Keep those parameters stable, if you do not have live rock then get a hunk of it or get some grunge from the bottom of someone's very mature tank. Wait this out, do not be so hasty to go at this with chemicals. This is not a race, it is a marathon.

 

[Miko2019]

Just my two cents, so take it for what it is. I would be reluctant to make a go at this with chemicals. I am guessing your tank is not mature? Do you have any live rock at all? Turn off your skimmer. Keep those parameters stable, if you do not have live rock then get a hunk of it or get some grunge from the bottom of someone's very mature tank. Wait this out, do not be so hasty to go at this with chemicals. This is not a race, it is a marathon.

no, tank is 2 years old, and I have lots od live rock (in DT and sump).
all parameters are stable, but I get dino when I was fighting GHA and have decreased PO4.
I'm fighting them for 3 months now.

 

[Snoopdog]

no, tank is 2 years old, and I have lots od live rock (in DT and sump).
all parameters are stable, but I get dino when I was fighting GHA and have decreased PO4.
I'm fighting them for 3 months now.

I would think green hair algae would be a lot easier to deal with than dinoflagellates.

 

[adobo]

Do tanks that run refugiums with algae like chaeto have less problems with dinos? The reason I ask is that there seems to be this mentality that culturing competing organisms (bacteria and/or algae) is one of the keys to overcome dinos.

If one had a fuge or an algae reactor in the first place, wouldn't that out-compete dinos and serve as a preventative?

 

[Snoopdog]

Do tanks that run refugiums with algae like chaeto have less problems with dinos? The reason I ask is that there seems to be this mentality that culturing competing organisms (bacteria and/or algae) is one of the keys to overcome dinos.

If one had a fuge or an algae reactor in the first place, wouldn't that out-compete dinos and serve as a preventative?

What I have read is that the algae that competes will strip the Nitrates and Phospates will make it worse.

 

[dvgyfresh]

What I have read is that the algae that competes will strip the Nitrates and Phospates will make it worse.

I may be wrong, but 0 nitrates 0 phosphate does allow Dinos to outcompete /thrive if they are the ones causing the nutrients to be zero (no other algae is growing ) to counteract this I would increase phosphate/nitrate to allow other algae to gain an advantage and slowly get rid of Dino’s , that is what worked for me along with a 2 day blackout to give other bacteria a chance to claim the rock ( my Dino’s were photosynthetic) mind you they are stil in my tank but other algae is slowly taking hold (coraline / gha)

 

[ScottB]

thank you. I have tried raising nutrients (NO3 15 ppm, PO4 30 ppb), adding Vibrant 2x per week (15 ml per 100 gallon), but nothing really helped.
I'm considering DinoX, what is your suggestion?

1) Those are good nutrient numbers and that is step 1
2) Until you can get a UV hooked up, you can clamp a bunch of filter floss to glass in high flow and high light areas. Rinse each evening before lights go down.
3) Get a UV. Implemented correctly for dinos, they are very effective against all but large cell amphidinium.
4) Run GAC carbon. Ostreos release toxins. Refresh every week or two.
5) No aminos or phyto. The dinos process those very quickly.
6) No water changes.
7) I don't recommend Vibrant until you are well clear of dinos. Vibrant is good stuff and really helps manage nuisance algae, but algae is a competitor for dinos. (Do you have an algae problem?)

Proper UV for dinos:
This is temporary and specific to dinos: Run directly TO & FROM the display. Hang it straight on the glass. A small pump is all you need. Maximize contact time. 300gph or so at max. As long is the bulb is not overheating you are good. 1 watt per 3 gallons of display. It is ugly, it is overkill for anything else (ich, algae, parasites...) but it works for dino.

I am not a fan of Dino-X. If all my corals were dead, I might be tempted to use it as a "oh, what the ..." . Does anyone know what is in those bottles?

Good luck. Report back.

 

[Miko2019]

1) Those are good nutrient numbers and that is step 1
2) Until you can get a UV hooked up, you can clamp a bunch of filter floss to glass in high flow and high light areas. Rinse each evening before lights go down.
3) Get a UV. Implemented correctly for dinos, they are very effective against all but large cell amphidinium.
4) Run GAC carbon. Ostreos release toxins. Refresh every week or two.
5) No aminos or phyto. The dinos process those very quickly.
6) No water changes.
7) I don't recommend Vibrant until you are well clear of dinos. Vibrant is good stuff and really helps manage nuisance algae, but algae is a competitor for dinos. (Do you have an algae problem?)

Proper UV for dinos:
This is temporary and specific to dinos: Run directly TO & FROM the display. Hang it straight on the glass. A small pump is all you need. Maximize contact time. 300gph or so at max. As long is the bulb is not overheating you are good. 1 watt per 3 gallons of display. It is ugly, it is overkill for anything else (ich, algae, parasites...) but it works for dino.

I am not a fan of Dino-X. If all my corals were dead, I might be tempted to use it as a "oh, what the ..." . Does anyone know what is in those bottles?

Good luck. Report back.

Thank you, ScottB.
Which one do you recommend, 36W, or 55W for 100 gallon DT? (I'm not calculating sump volume?)
Asking because there is no significant difference in price:

 

[Sharkbait19]

I got a brand new fluval 13.5 and with it came an algae spike. Are these Dinos? Note that the rock was purple. Now it’s brown and covered in slime and bubbles.

 

[ScottB]

Thank you, ScottB.
Which one do you recommend, 36W, or 55W for 100 gallon DT? (I'm not calculating sump volume?)
Asking because there is no significant difference in price:

The 36w will do the work just fine.

 

[ScottB]

I got a brand new fluval 13.5 and with it came an algae spike. Are these Dinos? Note that the rock was purple. Now it’s brown and covered in slime and bubbles.

Is this a new setup? How many months?

 

[Sharkbait19]

Only a month

 

[ScottB]

Only a month

Your young biome is and will continue to go through through many rapid changes. Chaos is totally normal for the first 6-18 months or so. Brown stuff, green stuff, then red stuff, back to green stuff. Control for salinity, temp and keep a little bit of nutrient available and just let your system do its thing.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Your young biome is and will continue to go through through many rapid changes. Chaos is totally normal for the first 6-18 months or so. Brown stuff, green stuff, then red stuff, back to green stuff. Control for salinity, temp and keep a little bit of nutrient available and just let your system do its thing.

Thanks!

 

[Snoopdog]

Update two weeks of dosing (actually stopped after a week as the levels stabilized at no3 15ppm and PO4 0.2ppm), 55w UV, and temp at 81F. Coral doesn't seem to mind the "Dirty" water, in fact, they look better than they did pre-dino.

Haven't seen any sign of dinos for the last 3-4 days. Going to run UV through the weekend then take it out of the DT. Give it a week or two of observation before I pack it away. I'll still be running UV in sump (until I figure out how to plumb into DT).

Thankful for all the resources available in this thread! Two thumbs up!


Now I need to get rid off all the GHA in the sand as my CUC doesnt go near it and goby can't keep up.

Can you give us an update?

 

[Snoopdog]

I may be wrong, but 0 nitrates 0 phosphate does allow Dinos to outcompete /thrive if they are the ones causing the nutrients to be zero (no other algae is growing ) to counteract this I would increase phosphate/nitrate to allow other algae to gain an advantage and slowly get rid of Dino’s , that is what worked for me along with a 2 day blackout to give other bacteria a chance to claim the rock ( my Dino’s were photosynthetic) mind you they are stil in my tank but other algae is slowly taking hold (coraline / gha)

This seems good on the surface, I may be giving it a go.

Anyone else notice dino's do not touch their refugium or sump?

 

[taricha]

Anyone else notice dino's do not touch their refugium or sump?

Yep. that's often the case. Sump conditions often favor other algae, and the dinos usually don't do well there. Typically they appear, but in tiny numbers - usually unnoticed.
(there are some exceptions).

 

[Snoopdog]

Yep. that's often the case. Sump conditions often favor other algae, and the dinos usually don't do well there. Typically they appear, but in tiny numbers - usually unnoticed.
(there are some exceptions).

So Taricha, million dollar question. Why? Mine really loves my sandbed, and this dummy rock the previous owner purchased. So dinoflagellates love real estate not taken up by other creatures. Why did we not see this stuff 15 years ago? We still started out with dead sand and rarely if ever saw them. Until I started keeping a tank again, I had never heard of dinoflagellates. I have two rocks that it more mature and boy the dinoflagellates do not like attaching there.

 

[taricha]

The easy answer is that the hobby wasn't looking for them. Called them the uglies or diatoms and moved on.
But that answer is too easy, I think.
The other answers are wildly speculative, controversial, but I think some might be true.
Widespread use of GFO, ultra sensitive PO4 tests, and LED lights with more selective wavelengths than the T5/MH more common in the past... all make "normal" algae easier to control, without making a dent in dinos.

One day we ought to do some hobby archaeology and dig up old pictures of nuisance "algae" from before the microscope identification trend, and see how many we would retroactively declare to be dinos.
See if the prevalence has really increased as much as the long time hobbyists suggest it has, or if this is entirely a bias of more careful diagnosis.