Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Kingfish83]

I think I have ostreopsis bug not sure. What do you guys think?

 

[saltyhog]

Im good at identifying so what do i have growing in my tank?

Either large cell amphidinium or procentrum. I think it's the former. Doesn't really matter as the treatment is the same for both of them. What does it look like in the tank?

 

[ScottB]

Ok guys checking in here. I have been dosing bright wells neo nitrate and phos. I have my phos up to .08 and nitrate up to 5 dosed again today to get up to 8ppm. I also have my UV sterilizer up and running for about 2 days now(23 watts green killing machine) for my 70-gallon tank. However, the cyano seemed to be receding a bit but the dinos are developing more near the top of the tank. Any suggestions?

Sounds like you are on the right track for ostreopsis which I what I think you have pictured. ID via video is easier. Do they move around as if the pointy end is tethered to a spot?

If the dinos are congregating in high light and flow areas, you could try enhancing your manual removal method via the "poor man's UV" as taricha refers to it. Clamp a bunch of filter floss sheets the side of the glass in the hot spots. The ostreos will cling to it during the light cycle. Rinse each evening before the lights go down.

Make sure that the bulb is good, and the flow is s-l-o-w through the UV. These guys wear body armor.

You shouldn't need to, but you may accelerate things a bit with a short blackout. Just confirm first that the UV is working properly, and not just as a tanning bed for dinos.

 

[Willis19]

Hello everybody, so..... we can land in Mars but we cannot get rid of dinoflagellates ? This is my odyssey. Last year, l had a 55 g tank with mostly soft and sps corals, due to the pandemic, well you know the story. That tank was run with dechlorinated tap water. I live in Canada and water (lime water) is pristine. Never had any issues with algae of any type and never did dips to corals NEVER. Also, I was running non reef lights and I started the cycle by adding one small live rock from my LSF. 2021, wanted to have a small tank and I got a 20 g, this time I said, I will do it right. I got my fancy RODI, fancy lights, fancy everything. I started the cycle with instant ocean bio spira, after 15 days -BOOM! Brownish/green things started to show in the sand and rocks then all my tank was green with rotten eggs smell like. I had just one damsel. The tank was very green like hulk I couldn't see anything inside, got a UV light dang! the water was clear like diamond by next day! But, dinoflagellates have never gone away. I had some zoas and I was dozing H2o2 (1ml/ 1 gallon) and the zoas were melted in seconds and recovered after 72 hrs, I felt very bad with myself after this dosing strategy, didn't work for me. Right now, I'm reading about increasing temperature in the tank but what if it doesn't work ? I will have a nice seafood for supper lol
There are many many many strategies that had work for some but not for others. Good luck guys WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! *** ! At least my cats love the tank! I know we love pictures here

 

[Willis19]

Ok, I did some literature review and I think raising the temperature can in fact eradicate dinoflagellates. I found this interesting article, I strongly recommend to read the full article. Otherwise, just read the abstract, introduction, results, and conclusions. Here is one important conclusion that authors made "Iron availability is a limiting micronutrient in meeting the metabolic demands imposed by stressful temperatures (Figs. 1, S1; Kudo et al. 2000, Shick et al. 2011, Andrew et al. 2019). Warming temperatures can raise a dinoflagellate’s cell division rate, but at a certain point further increases rapidly diminishes the cell’s ability to proliferate (Figs. 1, S1; Grégoire et al. 2017, Baker et al. 2018, Mansour et al. 2018, Rodriguez and Ho 2018, Andrew et al. 2019)" you can find the full article for download here: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._endosymbiotic_dinoflagellates_to_heat_stress
I will try it and will post and update

 

[IndianReefGuy]

Hey all, any thoughts on type of Dino? I think I know ... but want to be sure... appreciate the input from fellow reefers!

 

[IndianReefGuy]

Hey all, any thoughts on type of Dino? I think I know ... but want to be sure... appreciate the input from fellow reefers!

Here is a video...

 

[IndianReefGuy]

Here is a video...

 

[badams.one]

Today I learned that the reddish/brown matt growing on my sand and creeping up my rocks is NOT cyano, it's dinos. Under the microscope I found little brown circular shapes moving around in circles like a rumba vacuum that's lost its marbles. This stuff has been slowly growing for months and this whole time I thought it was cyano. Reason being, it looks similar, reddish brown in color, not snotty/stringy as most have posted and my nutrients have never been lacking.

Since setting up the tank 3 years ago I've always had phosphates running between .08 and .20. I didn't ever pay much attention to my nitrates as my corals have always looked great, I'm somewhat heavily stocked in fish and have always fed well. A few months back when this issue first came about I did notice that my nitrates were practically undetectable and assume this is where the issue came from. I have since however, managed to keep my nitrates between 10 and 20 ppm, but the dinos continue to grow. I'm confused on this as I've never heard of dinos being an issue with nutrients at these levels.

Has anyone ever battled dinos with high nutrients?

Any thoughts/insight anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.

 

[chema]

Ok, I did some literature review and I think raising the temperature can in fact eradicate dinoflagellates. I found this interesting article, I strongly recommend to read the full article. Otherwise, just read the abstract, introduction, results, and conclusions. Here is one important conclusion that authors made "Iron availability is a limiting micronutrient in meeting the metabolic demands imposed by stressful temperatures (Figs. 1, S1; Kudo et al. 2000, Shick et al. 2011, Andrew et al. 2019). Warming temperatures can raise a dinoflagellate’s cell division rate, but at a certain point further increases rapidly diminishes the cell’s ability to proliferate (Figs. 1, S1; Grégoire et al. 2017, Baker et al. 2018, Mansour et al. 2018, Rodriguez and Ho 2018, Andrew et al. 2019)" you can find the full article for download here: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._endosymbiotic_dinoflagellates_to_heat_stress
I will try it and will post and update

I'm afraid that the work you are referring to deals with endosymbiotic dinoflagellates, that is, the ones inside coral and tridacna clams. Those are the good guys!

The bad guys are the ones living free.

 

[taricha]

I found this interesting article, I strongly recommend to read the full article. Otherwise, just read the abstract, introduction, results, and conclusions.

Thanks! this is a really good article, and more applicable than may first appear (being about coral symbionts).

I speculated here that perhaps the trace element availability was the mechanism for raising temperature to have an effect (when it does).

I'm trying to figure out how/why this might work.
3 ideas.

• ...
• ...
• The metals / Iron availability angle. pH elevation changes the form and availability of metals that are needed such as Fe. A quick poke around makes it look like elevating temperature might have an effect in the same direction as pH increase maybe?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  source Oxidation kinetics of Fe in seawater - Millero
  So perhaps we are dealing with a bloom that has already plateaued due to scarce Fe etc, and then Temp is getting pushed up, that decreases(?) the Fe availability further.

But the evidence for the Fe - temp connection I could find was very thin and theoretical. This establishes it much more concretely.

So we have all these "secondary" tricks that sometimes do / sometimes don't work on dino populations...

Elevating temp, raising pH (see RHF dino article from way back), h2o2 dosing. All of these are connected in that they all increase the Fe-stress.
If you want to, go ahead and lump in the premise of this thread. elevate inorganic PO4, NO3. NO3 requires Fe before it can be used as an N source by the cell. Looks like everyone's been playing the same game without knowing it.

 

[ScottB]

Hey all, any thoughts on type of Dino? I think I know ... but want to be sure... appreciate the input from fellow reefers!

Could not get the video to play (youtube link is best) but no matter. These are ostreopsis.

a) dose nitrates and phosphates (10/.1 respectively targeted)
b) get a UV light. Plumb (temporary) TO/FROM the display. 1 watt per 3 gallons. S_L_O_W flow. Slower still.
c) run GAC as these guys are toxic
d) hang some filter floss on the glass in high flow and light areas. Rinse each evening as lights go down.
e) no aminos for a year. No phyto for a while.

These are actually the easiest to solve for, but you gotta get on your horse. They have nasty toxins.

 

[Willis19]

Thanks! this is a really good article, and more applicable than may first appear (being about coral symbionts).

I speculated here that perhaps the trace element availability was the mechanism for raising temperature to have an effect (when it does).


But the evidence for the Fe - temp connection I could find was very thin and theoretical. This establishes it much more concretely.

So we have all these "secondary" tricks that sometimes do / sometimes don't work on dino populations...

Elevating temp, raising pH (see RHF dino article from way back), h2o2 dosing. All of these are connected in that they all increase the Fe-stress.
If you want to, go ahead and lump in the premise of this thread. elevate inorganic PO4, NO3. NO3 requires Fe before it can be used as an N source by the cell. Looks like everyone's been playing the same game without knowing it.

Yeah ! Most of my softies handle the hustle but the anemones and blastumossa are not happy at all. I ordered Fauna Marin Red X algae control solution today, I will update this thread ! Wish me luck guys

 

[IndianReefGuy]

Could not get the video to play (youtube link is best) but no matter. These are ostreopsis.

a) dose nitrates and phosphates (10/.1 respectively targeted)
b) get a UV light. Plumb (temporary) TO/FROM the display. 1 watt per 3 gallons. S_L_O_W flow. Slower still.
c) run GAC as these guys are toxic
d) hang some filter floss on the glass in high flow and light areas. Rinse each evening as lights go down.
e) no aminos for a year. No phyto for a while.

These are actually the easiest to solve for, but you gotta get on your horse. They have nasty toxins.

Thank you! Appreciate the recipe to resolve it!!!

 

[lucky7]

How are you guys plumbing or hanging big temporary uv’s inside your displays? Looking for ideas

 

[ScottB]

I used 3/4 PVC to build a "hanger" that also serves as the plumbing. Pretty much what I scribbled here. It has since been repurposed, but you get the idea.

 

[Willis19]

How are you guys plumbing or hanging big temporary uv’s inside your displays? Looking for ideas

I got one that is water proof from amazon and put it inside black PVC pipe but no in the main tank. I left it in the sump of an AIO. Did not notice changes in the dinos but in green algae. What I have done, is left lights normal, feed normal 2 times per day to one fish, target feeding my corals and turn off the UV light and I noticed other algae is taking a battle with the dinos. Instead of doing water changes weekly, I will do two weeks (for now), I also dosing AB+ redsea daily. Is not over but seems that the tank is reaching an equilibrium with these microorganisms.

 

[DrMMI]

Could not get the video to play (youtube link is best) but no matter. These are ostreopsis.

a) dose nitrates and phosphates (10/.1 respectively targeted)
b) get a UV light. Plumb (temporary) TO/FROM the display. 1 watt per 3 gallons. S_L_O_W flow. Slower still.
c) run GAC as these guys are toxic
d) hang some filter floss on the glass in high flow and light areas. Rinse each evening as lights go down.
e) no aminos for a year. No phyto for a while.

These are actually the easiest to solve for, but you gotta get on your horse. They have nasty toxins.

I thought dosing phytoplankton was supposed to help with dinos. @AlgaeBarn always advertises to use them for this purpose.

 

[ScottB]

I thought dosing phytoplankton was supposed to help with dinos. @AlgaeBarn always advertises to use them for this purpose.

I love phyto and everything else from @AlgaeBarn TBH and believe they have a valuable place once your ostreopsis have been competed into submission.

Not all dinos are the same. If you had a different species like large cell amphidinium then phyto could play a better competitor nourishment role. Unconfirmed but plausible.

For ostreopsis, just go with the protocol promptly and accurately. You can solve for them rapidly and be on your merry way in a couple weeks.

 

[chema]

I love phyto and everything else from @AlgaeBarn TBH and believe they have a valuable place once your ostreopsis have been competed into submission.

Not all dinos are the same. If you had a different species like large cell amphidinium then phyto could play a better competitor nourishment role. Unconfirmed but plausible.

For ostreopsis, just go with the protocol promptly and accurately. You can solve for them rapidly and be on your merry way in a couple weeks.

I have been dosing Synechococcus to my tank for the last months in order to keep phosphate at bay. That has not prevented Amphidinium LC to thrive. It doesn't surprise me as they inhabit different ecological niches. Synechococcus is a planktonic ciano while Amphidinium is benthic. I think that, as it has been demonstrated by some treatments, diatoms are better competitors of benthic Amphidinium.