Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

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saltyhog

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I understand. Would introducing live phytoplankton be helpful? I could potentially grow some of my own or also I could consider purchasing.

I read algaebarn has a big thing on their site about dinos and oceanmagic live plankton being beneficial.

However, i was told repeatedly not to add any aminos and algae barn says their ocean magik has a lot of aminos.

If you were dealing with amphidinium or prorocentrum I would really urge you to dose phyto and pods but with ostreopsis properly plumbed and sized UV is all that's needed other than restoring nutrient balance. The UV is the treatment for ostreopsis.
 

saltyhog

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The jbj has 8 chambers chambers with the over flow has in media baskets with filter floss and bio media and carbon... camber number to after over flows is empty chambers 3 after over flow had the uv pump in chamber 3 and the return is in chamber 3 but on the other side of the sump and the middle chamber is the return for the tank

Your best practice is to move the UV pump to the display.....yes it's ugly but it's temporary, not long term. I don't see much of a chance for winning with ostreopsis as your UV is sized and set up now.
 

saltyhog

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Hi, new to the hobby. Tank is about 3 months old. Battling a major dino problem. My kid has a super cheap microscope, and I think I got a picture of one? It's near impossible to know with such a cheap scope. Does this look like something? Thanks in advance.

1619210175809.png

Yes, that looks like ostreopsis dino. UV is the best treatment.
 
Fritz

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Thanks @saltyhog. Makes sense. The couple coral I have in there are pretty upset. Maybe due to toxins from that dino type? My params are in a good range.. Finally got a reading of 0.02 PO4 after dosing quite a bit of Neophos .

Go ahead and run carbon, that's the only thing you can do to hopefully help your corals.
 

jmichaelh7

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Hmm, interesting. Should I just stop my algae reactor completely? What I had before was way better than dinos...

Though to be honest, maybe the small amount of algae was just a tiny bit of dinos in the sand.

The way I initially beat dinos was dosing NoPox. I basically starved the crap out of everything, including dinos. I had a ton of bacteria growth, which basically won.

I stopped dosing NoPox and things seemed to be just fine for over a year. Then recently I was kind of annoyed at how algae kept growing on my sand, so I decided to tinker with the tank and restart my algae reactor with some chaeto.

Interesting.

Alright, I'm going to bust out a little microscope and try to battle this again...
Would you recommend running NoPox?

I have slight dinos on my rock work now, as evidenced by bubbles on the algae.

I dont want to run phyto as i think it would feed the dinos. Looks like Cyano on top of the sand...

So NoPox cleared everything huh. Is that harmful to SPS?
 

saltyhog

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I was able to get a better picture. They all look the same. This sample taken near the bottom. Where the previous picture was near the top of the tank
1619287105716.png


Yep, definitely ostreopsis. Good news it it's one of the easiest to get rid of with a properly sized/plumbed UV. As you already know though it's probably the most toxic dino.
 

kinetic

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Would you recommend running NoPox?

I have slight dinos on my rock work now, as evidenced by bubbles on the algae.

I dont want to run phyto as i think it would feed the dinos. Looks like Cyano on top of the sand...

So NoPox cleared everything huh. Is that harmful to SPS?

I tried everything. No matter how much I dosed to keep levels up, it continued to be ULN because the dinos kept growing and nothing could outcompete.

So I was ticked and went the other direction and found that the bacteria that thrives off of NoPox would outcompete the dinos.

I don't know if I would recommend it, since everyone's systems are different.

Oh, and I had almost zero growth on any corals/anemones the entire 3 years going this route.
 
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Just to give an update its day 5 and the dinos have almost disappeared.

Ive run lights out every other day, for the first 2 days I dosed the neonitro pretty heavy got my nitrate up to 10, for the past 2 days ive been just relying on aggressive feeding.

I did have some live oceanmagik which i also have dosed for the past 2 days rather aggressive (30ml morning 30ml night). I also had a little bit of dr. Tims refresh which i did for the past 2 days as well.

I think the oceanmagik can add a lot of nutrient so I dont plan to continue that, either. More like a 2 day jump start to try and get some competition maybe revive my pods

I have put (far) away: the scrubber, the lanthanum chloride, the phosguard.

I am still running GFO, Skimmer (not very aggressively), Carbon.

Maybe dosing the dr tims refresh didnt make the most sense but at the same time, things appear to be headed in the right direction. Ill probably not continue that, though.

So far I am winning but the fight isnt over so Ill keep you guys posted as I go.
 

happyhourhero

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I honestly wonder if it’s the lack of phosphate bound rocks that cause so many new dry rock tanks to get this stuff. Back before all the mined rock was always being used, people were trying to strip phosphate out of the dried live rock that we used for a while. You didn’t see dinos much back then (obviously most tanks back then were using from the ocean rock too). I just am amazed at the amount of po4 you have to dose before it “saturates” and starts staying detectable.
The non new tank cases are mostly due to people bottoming out p04 it seems like.
I know there is more to it than just p04 but I feel like there has to be a major variable that all the dry rock tanks have in common.
 

Tuffloud1

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Is it advisable to blow my coolia plagued sand with a turkey baster to get them picked up by my UV sterilizer?

I’ve been running a 90 watt UV for the last week and a half. The first few days I did the turkey baster technique and then discontinued because they just appear back after the lights come on the next day.

The UV doesn’t appear to be doing anything. Running it at 600 gph on a 300 gallon system.
 

ReefMan692

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don't. That's like the number one thing to stop when a dino outbreak happens.

I will continue to test and monitor though throughout this if phosphates do drop below 0.07 i will kill the gfo.

There is such a thing as over-correcting and I am just trying to avoid that.

Im actually gonna go run a few tests right now Ill update you guys with the numbers.

So far today the status is the same. Dinos are visible in certain locations on backwall but for most part they are hard to find.

I am also waiting on a new UV when it arrives ill close loop it in the DT as suggested.
 
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Refugiums are great and I have a large one on my tank. I also have chaeto in it ....but, I have nitrates in the 10-15 range and phosphate in the 0.1 range. A refugium is a place to increase diversity, not just a place to grow chaeto. What I'm saying is that if you are struggling to maintain elevated nutrients when battling dinos, running an algae reactor or striving to grow macro algae in your refugium can be counter productive to your efforts to overcome the dinos. The same would be true for carbon dosing, lanthium, GFO, etc. If used indiscriminately they are an obstacle to creating biodiversity.


Yes, dinoflagellates are a normal part of the ecosystem IMO. They become a problem in our tanks when conditions favor them over their natural competition. I.E. low nutrients don't "cause" dinos, they just make for an environment where dinos have a distinct advantage (as they aren't limited by low nutrients...their competition is).

Because of this, keeping nutrients elevated (dosing NO3 & PO4, temporarily shutting down alage reactors, stopping GFO, etc) is of value in all types of dinos....especially in long term success. If we don't fix the imbalance that gave them an advantage, eliminating them with things like UV for ostreopsis won't be a long term solution.



The competition we want is microalgae type competition. Competition that is microscopic....like dinos are. Diatoms, phytoplankton, etc. We don't have an effective predator for dinos so we need things that take over their space that aren't damaging to the tank.
+1 on all this. Refugiums are great as long as the system has excess nutrient. Add more fish and add more food.

My refugium light hours are now 22hrs per day. When I was going through dinos it was 0 hours.
 

ScottB

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Is it advisable to blow my coolia plagued sand with a turkey baster to get them picked up by my UV sterilizer?

I’ve been running a 90 watt UV for the last week and a half. The first few days I did the turkey baster technique and then discontinued because they just appear back after the lights come on the next day.

The UV doesn’t appear to be doing anything. Running it at 600 gph on a 300 gallon system.
I guess I would consider one or two next steps:
a) The coolia are hanging tight overnight, and not taking to the water column. Maybe a blackout for 24/48 hours to get them moving.
b) The coolia are sporting some Kevlar or natural equivalent that is able to protect them when passing through the UV. You could try slowing the flow down. IIRC, your unit is a properly sized -- and very sexy -- ProMax that should be capable.

It could just be that the UV damaging them, but not killing them outright. Population seem static or slightly shifting up/down?
 

Tuffloud1

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I guess I would consider one or two next steps:
a) The coolia are hanging tight overnight, and not taking to the water column. Maybe a blackout for 24/48 hours to get them moving.
b) The coolia are sporting some Kevlar or natural equivalent that is able to protect them when passing through the UV. You could try slowing the flow down. IIRC, your unit is a properly sized -- and very sexy -- ProMax that should be capable.

It could just be that the UV damaging them, but not killing them outright. Population seem static or slightly shifting up/down?

The rocks seem to have a little less of the “powdery” brown stuff that I blow off with a turkey baster. The sand however is a disaster. I have a mix of prorocentrum and coolia. The samples I took of the sand seem to be 100 percent coolia whereas other areas like the walls and rock are a mix of the two.

I will take a picture of what the sand looks like during the day later.

I’m dosing Live Phyto Feast, 3 teaspoons per day (300 gallon system). Not sure if I should up there dosage?

I will say there is actual green film growing on the front glass a few days after beginning the plankton. I never had green on the glass before. It seems to be a mix now of green with the dino patches mixed in. Before it was all dino/brown.
 

ScottB

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The rocks seem to have a little less of the “powdery” brown stuff that I blow off with a turkey baster. The sand however is a disaster. I have a mix of prorocentrum and coolia. The samples I took of the sand seem to be 100 percent coolia whereas other areas like the walls and rock are a mix of the two.

I will take a picture of what the sand looks like during the day later.

I’m dosing Live Phyto Feast, 3 teaspoons per day (300 gallon system). Not sure if I should up there dosage?

I will say there is actual green film growing on the front glass a few days after beginning the plankton. I never had green on the glass before. It seems to be a mix now of green with the dino patches mixed in. Before it was all dino/brown.
I like that you are getting some green on the glass; good sign to me.
Are you seeing any diatoms in the sand samples? Can be some good competition for the coolia. They enjoy some silicates. I know. How ironic.
 

ReefMan692

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+1 on all this. Refugiums are great as long as the system has excess nutrient. Add more fish and add more food.

My refugium light hours are now 22hrs per day. When I was going through dinos it was 0 hours.
Interested in the 22 hours. I read in the science literature algae does its bulk growth at night it is nocturnal in that way and that for phyto cultivation in photobioreactor anything more than 12 hours of light adds stress to the organism.

But i have seen a lot of people say more than 12 for fuge
 
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