Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Acros]

How do I battle prorocentrum? I have tried silica dosing to no avail (11 days continuously and not a single diatom seen through microscope). Adding a UV and blowing the rocks have helped a bit.

 

[Gildo]

I don’t think you have to keep phosphates and nitrates that high. I guess not many corals are in there so you are going to be ok.
anyway I think you have Amphidinium. Silicates dosing works as a treatment.
there is tread dedicated for this type.

Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

This thread is a spin-off from the @mcarroll very successful Dino thread The purpose is to discuss methods for removal and fighting against a particular strain of dinoflagellate - Large Cell Amphidinium. It seems to make up about a third of the cases of dinos. The reason this strain gets its...

www.reef2reef.com

Also you can find my experience with them here

Build Thread - The heater failure build

I have had aquarium since I can remember. Ok the very first one hardly can be called an aquarium as it was just a 3l jar with a 2-3 inch catfish in it my dad caught while we were fishing. And that fish didn’t last long with me as he had to go back to the river Danube. It was growing faster and...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks! from my video I was convinced they were still ostreoptis but smaller for some reason!

then I ordered Brightwell Sponge Excel.
when it arrives I will start using it! how can I adjust with the dosages ml / liter / days; without using tests?

 

[attiland]

Thanks! from my video I was convinced they were still ostreoptis but smaller for some reason!

then I ordered Brightwell Sponge Excel.
when it arrives I will start using it! how can I adjust with the dosages ml / liter / days; without using tests?

In a normal tank silicates reads 0 You want to reach 2ppm for a start a diatoms bloom

Read the instructions as different packages could have different dosage. Mine say 1 drop in in 20 g will increase the silicates by 0.01ppm.

I have 40g so in my case I would need 2 drops for 0.01ppm but I need 200x more so 400drps to dose it to reach 2ppm.

the rest is really guessing game without testing but as long as you see the bloom keep going you are on the right track but I figured about 15 drops in the morning and 15 drops in the evening maintains the high levels.

after 2 weeks I have stopped and waited till the bloom started to faint. You will see colour comparison when you see Dinos and diatoms patches next to each other. If you are not happy with the progress start dosing again. I probably restarted dosing 2 or 3 times.

keep test with your microscope to confirm progress. You will be surprised how interesting it looks.

Expect a few relapses and/or And cyano to appear at some point but it will be gone very soon. I have used about 1-5 60ml bottles all together

 

[Biff0rz]

@Reef and Dive
Here's a comparison picture. This was after we already started but it was bad even in this one

I still have small dino present so I'll keep pressing on (you can see it on the sand and on the dead frag)

Here's the full before picture

 

[Gildo]

In a normal tank silicates reads 0 You want to reach 2ppm for a start a diatoms bloom

Read the instructions as different packages could have different dosage. Mine say 1 drop in in 20 g will increase the silicates by 0.01ppm.

I have 40g so in my case I would need 2 drops for 0.01ppm but I need 200x more so 400drps to dose it to reach 2ppm.

the rest is really guessing game without testing but as long as you see the bloom keep going you are on the right track but I figured about 15 drops in the morning and 15 drops in the evening maintains the high levels.

after 2 weeks I have stopped and waited till the bloom started to faint. You will see colour comparison when you see Dinos and diatoms patches next to each other. If you are not happy with the progress start dosing again. I probably restarted dosing 2 or 3 times.

keep test with your microscope to confirm progress. You will be surprised how interesting it looks.

Expect a few relapses and/or And cyano to appear at some point but it will be gone very soon. I have used about 1-5 60ml bottles all together

Thank you!
I will update you on the results!

 

[Oberon0314]

My 40 breeder macroalgae/fish tank dinos keep coming back… I have 3 saltwater tanks, a 29 macroalgae/toadstools/fish reef, 10 gall dwarf seahorse/macroalgae tank and a 40 breeder Macroalgae/fish tank. My 40 breeder has chronic dinoflagellates problems… The only thing I have tried that has worked in the past was UV sterilizer (green killing machine) but as soon as the bulb stops working, the dinos are back… My dwarf seahorse tank (10 gal) and my 29 gal are both newly set up, 2-3 months while my 40 breeder is nearly 10 months by now…. I don’t understand why dinos are a problem in the oldest tank while the newer ones don't seem affected so far… i keep my nutrient levels relatively high (~20 ppm) in the 40 breeder but that hasn’t worked out to prevent Dinos. I been thinking of getting a different heater (mine is preset to 78 degrees) and bump into 82 and see if something happens…

 

[Kennya]

Was so hoping I wouldn't be posting back on this thread after over a year being Dino free.

Noticed that reddish brown patches appear on the sand building throughout the day but completely disappear at night. But no stringy snotty mats.
Also noticed some bubbles on some algae by weir so took sample from both areas.

Slight evidence of some brown matting on part of one rock as well.

Believe I'm dealing small cell amphidinium and ostreopsis if @taricha or someone could confirm please I'd appreciate it. looks like in some of the shots there may be a few diatoms. Pictures below:-

First 3 shots from Weir last 3 from Sand.

 

[attiland]

Was so hoping I wouldn't be posting back on this thread after over a year being Dino free.

Noticed that reddish brown patches appear on the sand building throughout the day but completely disappear at night. But no stringy snotty mats.
Also noticed some bubbles on some algae by weir so took sample from both areas.

Slight evidence of some brown matting on part of one rock as well.

Believe I'm dealing small cell amphidinium and ostreopsis if @taricha or someone could confirm please I'd appreciate it. looks like in some of the shots there may be a few diatoms. Pictures below:-

First 3 shots from Weir last 3 from Sand.

Yep you are right you have both. I would go UV and silicates after making sure detectable levels of nitrate and phosphate.

 

[Kennya]

Yep you are right you have both. I would go UV and silicates after making sure detectable levels of nitrate and phosphate.

Thanks for the confirmation and method of attack

 

[Scheel78]

Could someone provide an ID on this?

 

[attiland]

Could someone provide an ID on this?

The circles in the middle suggests Prorocentrum to me. Not an expert though

 

[COwCOw]

I'd say ive had dino for 3-4 months (my tank is about 7-9 months old) It was amphidinium LC before but now I think its changed to small cell and in other pictures it shows some other stuff that I cant I'd and below are videos of it, 1 coral has died and its getting out of hand, Im scared to dose SI as I feel like I dont want to overdose and it becomes a problem, So if anyone can ID the pictures that would be great, and just wondering if SI is safe? Also if there are any alternatives to SI, Thanks!

​

 

[Nsakis1]

My head is spinning even with all the great info in this thread!

I have two main questions and I did my best to put as many pertinent details into this post as possible…

First, can you please help me identify if these are truly dinos I have growing in the tank?
Second, treatment options in a mixed reef?
Bonus question: Did my Vibrant dosing start this nonsense?

It’s a 40 breeder that was set up a little over two months ago.
I will post the parts of my reef diary which I feel are pertinent below.

Currently the torch (my current favorite piece), hammer, and zoas are the only unhappy inhabitants. The LPS and other softies all look happy.

My most recent parameters are as follows:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-0.5
Ca: 430
Mg: 1425
dKh: 10.7
Phos: 0.05
Salinity: 35 ppt
pH range for the last 7 days: 7.61-7.85
Temp range for the last 7 days: 75.7-80.3 (Using an Inkbird instead of my Apex but I’m very unhappy with its inability to control a tight range so I will be switching this to the Apex)

Lighting: 2x AI Prime HD16
Salt: Red Sea black bucket
Flow: MP40 on reef crest mode
Feeding: Daily with pellets or frozen mysis and 2x2 nori square, Reef chili about every other day for about 1 month
Current inhabitants: Black ice clown, ocellaris clown, 3” purple tang, 3” melanurus, cleaner shrimp, emerald crab, hitchhiking hermits
Filtration: Nothing…skimmer was driving me crazy as it wouldn’t break in and I gave up when it was overflowing one night and turned it off

7/9
Dosed Vibrance
Added 14 lbs live rock
Turned on 1 light at 50%

7/10
Ammonia - 2
Nitrite - 1
pH - 7.73
Turned on 2nd light and set both to 30% acclimation mode

7/19
2 clowns ($20 & $50) and 1.5 head torch ($60)

7/25
12 gallon WC
Dosed Vibrant
Added long polyp ($40) and green polyp toadstool ($15), pulsing xenia ($15), GSP ($20)

8/2
Added purple tang ($100+50 shipping)

8/4
Dosed Vibrant

8/9
Dosed Vibrant
4 gallon WC
Lights changed to 100 100 60 60 10 10 0 65 in the initial phase of ramping up from 60 all across

8/10
Added Kenya tree (free) unknown zoas on square tile ($25) and frilly green shroom ($20)

8/16
4 gallon WC
Dosed Vibrant
Added cleaner shrimp ($38) and purple firefish ($50 - died that evening)

8/17
Temp 76.7-79.9 - 7 day avg
pH - 7.68-7.87 - 7 day avg
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 1

8/18
Turned royal and blue up to 100% so now UV, violet, royal and blue are 100%
Reef chili (RC)
Moved hammer as polyps have been retracted lately
Moved Kenya tree as half looks dead

8/19
4 gallon WC as I realized I possibly did not use RODI water but rather the membrane cleansing setting…
Added rubble which was dry then soaking in RODI for a few days with a pump

8/21
Kenya tree top fell off and disappeared. One piece front right in the shade
Shrimp finally cleaning tang and eating pellets
RC

8/23
Long polyp toadstool finished shedding after minimum 5 days
Increased UV and Violet to 166%
Royal and blue still at 100%

8/24
Green toadstool closed

8/25
RC

8/26
Green toadstool open
The uglies have arrived

8/29
Melanurus ($50) and squamosa ($160) from Rivers and Reefs

8/30
Lights to full settings 166 166 125 125 10 10 0 65

8/31
Added yellow favia colony ($45) and emerald crab ($7) from R&R

9/3
Large AquaSD order arrived and acclimated
Forgot to dip like 5 frags. Dipped all the rest

9/4
Glued all the frags
Scrubbed Green slime off all rocks
Melanurus got super glue stuck to his mouth
Added ghetto filter for 1 night

9/5
4 gallon WC
Fed nem 1/4 mysis cube

9/6
Ghetto filter back in

9/8
Fed maxi minis mysis

9/9
Started feeding half mysis cube nightly

9/10
Long polyp toadstool closed

Thank you so much in advance!

 

[Reef and Dive]

My head is spinning even with all the great info in this thread!

I have two main questions and I did my best to put as many pertinent details into this post as possible…

First, can you please help me identify if these are truly dinos I have growing in the tank?
Second, treatment options in a mixed reef?
Bonus question: Did my Vibrant dosing start this nonsense?

It’s a 40 breeder that was set up a little over two months ago.
I will post the parts of my reef diary which I feel are pertinent below.

Currently the torch (my current favorite piece), hammer, and zoas are the only unhappy inhabitants. The LPS and other softies all look happy.

My most recent parameters are as follows:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-0.5
Ca: 430
Mg: 1425
dKh: 10.7
Phos: 0.05
Salinity: 35 ppt
pH range for the last 7 days: 7.61-7.85
Temp range for the last 7 days: 75.7-80.3 (Using an Inkbird instead of my Apex but I’m very unhappy with its inability to control a tight range so I will be switching this to the Apex)

Lighting: 2x AI Prime HD16
Salt: Red Sea black bucket
Flow: MP40 on reef crest mode
Feeding: Daily with pellets or frozen mysis and 2x2 nori square, Reef chili about every other day for about 1 month
Current inhabitants: Black ice clown, ocellaris clown, 3” purple tang, 3” melanurus, cleaner shrimp, emerald crab, hitchhiking hermits
Filtration: Nothing…skimmer was driving me crazy as it wouldn’t break in and I gave up when it was overflowing one night and turned it off

7/9
Dosed Vibrance
Added 14 lbs live rock
Turned on 1 light at 50%

7/10
Ammonia - 2
Nitrite - 1
pH - 7.73
Turned on 2nd light and set both to 30% acclimation mode

7/19
2 clowns ($20 & $50) and 1.5 head torch ($60)

7/25
12 gallon WC
Dosed Vibrant
Added long polyp ($40) and green polyp toadstool ($15), pulsing xenia ($15), GSP ($20)

8/2
Added purple tang ($100+50 shipping)

8/4
Dosed Vibrant

8/9
Dosed Vibrant
4 gallon WC
Lights changed to 100 100 60 60 10 10 0 65 in the initial phase of ramping up from 60 all across

8/10
Added Kenya tree (free) unknown zoas on square tile ($25) and frilly green shroom ($20)

8/16
4 gallon WC
Dosed Vibrant
Added cleaner shrimp ($38) and purple firefish ($50 - died that evening)

8/17
Temp 76.7-79.9 - 7 day avg
pH - 7.68-7.87 - 7 day avg
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 1

8/18
Turned royal and blue up to 100% so now UV, violet, royal and blue are 100%
Reef chili (RC)
Moved hammer as polyps have been retracted lately
Moved Kenya tree as half looks dead

8/19
4 gallon WC as I realized I possibly did not use RODI water but rather the membrane cleansing setting…
Added rubble which was dry then soaking in RODI for a few days with a pump

8/21
Kenya tree top fell off and disappeared. One piece front right in the shade
Shrimp finally cleaning tang and eating pellets
RC

8/23
Long polyp toadstool finished shedding after minimum 5 days
Increased UV and Violet to 166%
Royal and blue still at 100%

8/24
Green toadstool closed

8/25
RC

8/26
Green toadstool open
The uglies have arrived

8/29
Melanurus ($50) and squamosa ($160) from Rivers and Reefs

8/30
Lights to full settings 166 166 125 125 10 10 0 65

8/31
Added yellow favia colony ($45) and emerald crab ($7) from R&R

9/3
Large AquaSD order arrived and acclimated
Forgot to dip like 5 frags. Dipped all the rest

9/4
Glued all the frags
Scrubbed Green slime off all rocks
Melanurus got super glue stuck to his mouth
Added ghetto filter for 1 night

9/5
4 gallon WC
Fed nem 1/4 mysis cube

9/6
Ghetto filter back in

9/8
Fed maxi minis mysis

9/9
Started feeding half mysis cube nightly

9/10
Long polyp toadstool closed

Thank you so much in advance!

Can’t see your videos.

 

[Nsakis1]

Can’t see your videos.

I’ve had this issue in the past. I click attach files, choose them from my photo gallery, then upload just like the pics. How do I attach them correctly?

 

[Reef and Dive]

I’ve had this issue in the past. I click attach files, choose them from my photo gallery, then upload just like the pics. How do I attach them correctly?

As an external link I know it works

 

[ScottB]

Some great advice in this thread. I'm happy to say I too have beat dinos. It was a nasty 2 month fight in which I took the everything and the kitchen sink approach. Unfortunately, lost about 80% of my corals. But thankfully they are gone!! This is how bad they were:


If I were to do it all over again I would start with a scrubbing of all the rocks with clear drains and some serious filter floss to export as much as possible manually. Then I would do a 3 day blackout while dosing a competing bacteria as well as Dr Tims Waste Away and add a fresh bag of carbon. Also add UV asap (but turn off for 24hours after dosing bacteria) and dose nitrates and phosphates to detectable levels. I think if I would have done that from day one I could have probably beat them in just a week or 2 with minimal losses.

Also it is worth mentioning Elegant Corals Dinoflagellates Regimen worked really well for me.

This is my tank now about 45 days later lots of red algae (I suspect this came from dosing a zillion unnecessary additives) but 0 dinos!!

Glad you are all clear now. Losing 80% of corals is tough though; sorry about that. The Elegance method does appear very effective when followed through to the end, but also seems very hard on corals. That is why I steer in other directions that promote more competition.

What were your nutrients like over the treatment period?

 

[ScottB]

My head is spinning even with all the great info in this thread!

I have two main questions and I did my best to put as many pertinent details into this post as possible…

First, can you please help me identify if these are truly dinos I have growing in the tank?
Second, treatment options in a mixed reef?
Bonus question: Did my Vibrant dosing start this nonsense?

It’s a 40 breeder that was set up a little over two months ago.
I will post the parts of my reef diary which I feel are pertinent below.

Currently the torch (my current favorite piece), hammer, and zoas are the only unhappy inhabitants. The LPS and other softies all look happy.

My most recent parameters are as follows:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-0.5
Ca: 430
Mg: 1425
dKh: 10.7
Phos: 0.05
Salinity: 35 ppt
pH range for the last 7 days: 7.61-7.85
Temp range for the last 7 days: 75.7-80.3 (Using an Inkbird instead of my Apex but I’m very unhappy with its inability to control a tight range so I will be switching this to the Apex)

Lighting: 2x AI Prime HD16
Salt: Red Sea black bucket
Flow: MP40 on reef crest mode
Feeding: Daily with pellets or frozen mysis and 2x2 nori square, Reef chili about every other day for about 1 month
Current inhabitants: Black ice clown, ocellaris clown, 3” purple tang, 3” melanurus, cleaner shrimp, emerald crab, hitchhiking hermits
Filtration: Nothing…skimmer was driving me crazy as it wouldn’t break in and I gave up when it was overflowing one night and turned it off

7/9
Dosed Vibrance
Added 14 lbs live rock
Turned on 1 light at 50%

7/10
Ammonia - 2
Nitrite - 1
pH - 7.73
Turned on 2nd light and set both to 30% acclimation mode

7/19
2 clowns ($20 & $50) and 1.5 head torch ($60)

7/25
12 gallon WC
Dosed Vibrant
Added long polyp ($40) and green polyp toadstool ($15), pulsing xenia ($15), GSP ($20)

8/2
Added purple tang ($100+50 shipping)

8/4
Dosed Vibrant

8/9
Dosed Vibrant
4 gallon WC
Lights changed to 100 100 60 60 10 10 0 65 in the initial phase of ramping up from 60 all across

8/10
Added Kenya tree (free) unknown zoas on square tile ($25) and frilly green shroom ($20)

8/16
4 gallon WC
Dosed Vibrant
Added cleaner shrimp ($38) and purple firefish ($50 - died that evening)

8/17
Temp 76.7-79.9 - 7 day avg
pH - 7.68-7.87 - 7 day avg
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 1

8/18
Turned royal and blue up to 100% so now UV, violet, royal and blue are 100%
Reef chili (RC)
Moved hammer as polyps have been retracted lately
Moved Kenya tree as half looks dead

8/19
4 gallon WC as I realized I possibly did not use RODI water but rather the membrane cleansing setting…
Added rubble which was dry then soaking in RODI for a few days with a pump

8/21
Kenya tree top fell off and disappeared. One piece front right in the shade
Shrimp finally cleaning tang and eating pellets
RC

8/23
Long polyp toadstool finished shedding after minimum 5 days
Increased UV and Violet to 166%
Royal and blue still at 100%

8/24
Green toadstool closed

8/25
RC

8/26
Green toadstool open
The uglies have arrived

8/29
Melanurus ($50) and squamosa ($160) from Rivers and Reefs

8/30
Lights to full settings 166 166 125 125 10 10 0 65

8/31
Added yellow favia colony ($45) and emerald crab ($7) from R&R

9/3
Large AquaSD order arrived and acclimated
Forgot to dip like 5 frags. Dipped all the rest

9/4
Glued all the frags
Scrubbed Green slime off all rocks
Melanurus got super glue stuck to his mouth
Added ghetto filter for 1 night

9/5
4 gallon WC
Fed nem 1/4 mysis cube

9/6
Ghetto filter back in

9/8
Fed maxi minis mysis

9/9
Started feeding half mysis cube nightly

9/10
Long polyp toadstool closed

Thank you so much in advance!

I microscope ID would be needed to confirm, but this does not look like dinos. Instead, it looks like chrysophytes.

Personally, I would consider these to be new tank "ugglies" that is just a tedious phase. I've had them on an established system as well and it tooks a few ugly months--more like 6 months to subside. I cannot confirm what led to their demise, but they were eventually displaced by coralline.

Do regular manual removal. Baste heavy and remove with a canister filter is how I would do it.

 

[ggNoRe]

Glad you are all clear now. Losing 80% of corals is tough though; sorry about that. The Elegance method does appear very effective when followed through to the end, but also seems very hard on corals. That is why I steer in other directions that promote more competition.

What were your nutrients like over the treatment period?

All of my corals died when I was out of town for 7 days and had a massive cyano outbreak. This was after dosing DinoX. I did not see any harmful effects on any of my livestock using the Elegance Coral Regimen. But I think it's worth pointing out that extra aeration is imperative while doing this as the forced bacteria bloom will deplete oxygen.

During the treatment period I was dosing nitrates and phosphates heavily to maintain levels of 10-20 nitrates and .05 - .1 phosphates.

 

[ScottB]

All of my corals died when I was out of town for 7 days and had a massive cyano outbreak. This was after dosing DinoX. I did not see any harmful effects on any of my livestock using the Elegance Coral Regimen. But I think it's worth pointing out that extra aeration is imperative while doing this as the forced bacteria bloom will deplete oxygen.

During the treatment period I was dosing nitrates and phosphates heavily to maintain levels of 10-20 nitrates and .05 - .1 phosphates.

Thanks for adding that clarity to the thread.