Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Deltec

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Dealing with dinos is not a good moment to go for “Redfied ratios”. Dinos actually grow faster with the usually desired “above 20” ratios. Just keep nutrients detectable. If you have a very low ratio it is a bad moment to try to “fix” that, it will worsen the problem.

Oversized and slow UV is the solution you are looking for (Ostreopsis case).

If wou wish a deeper discussion on ratios:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/redfield-ratio-revisited-–-what-are-we-doing-wrong.742503/

I didn’t say it was?
 

Enigma84

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I've been reading this when I get chance for over a year now and still not got to the end.

I have ostreopsis that I have tried just about everything on it, without it staying away long term. I am told UV is the way to fight ostreopsis, but it's come back recently in the refugium with a vengeance. I am super careful to keep the nitrate no lower than 5ppm and phosphate no lower than 0.08. I have been testing the tank almost daily since I started fighting this PITA and I know neither level has got any closer to zero.

Are we any closer to a consensus as to what can knock these back once and for all?

I've had enough now. My UV may not be effective because its slightly too small, or I haven't nailed the flow rate... Who knows. I'm fed up with ticking about and losing corals trying all of these desperate ideas.

Is there a generally agreed effective method for ostreopsis by now?

Many thanks people!
 

ScottB

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I've been reading this when I get chance for over a year now and still not got to the end.

I have ostreopsis that I have tried just about everything on it, without it staying away long term. I am told UV is the way to fight ostreopsis, but it's come back recently in the refugium with a vengeance. I am super careful to keep the nitrate no lower than 5ppm and phosphate no lower than 0.08. I have been testing the tank almost daily since I started fighting this PITA and I know neither level has got any closer to zero.

Are we any closer to a consensus as to what can knock these back once and for all?

I've had enough now. My UV may not be effective because its slightly too small, or I haven't nailed the flow rate... Who knows. I'm fed up with ticking about and losing corals trying all of these desperate ideas.

Is there a generally agreed effective method for ostreopsis by now?

Many thanks people!
I've been through a couple rounds of ostreopsis. They are never completely gone, just outcompeted in healthy, diverse biome. Initially, cyano is generally the first competitor. Then other bacterial film, then film algae start taking space. Maybe some GHA.

As this has been going on so long for you, I am going to make a few guesses.

a) You don't have a large enough (fish) bioload.
b) You are cleaning glass surfaces frequently and disturbing the competitive films.
c) Your UV is too small. You need 1 watt per 3 gallons.
d) Your UV bulb is too old. Replace it.
e) Your flow is too high. Take the manufacturers instructions for parasites and cut the flow by more than half. Dinos have a protective shell; you really gotta cook 'em.
f) Run some GAC to help remove the dino toxins.
g) Your test results are off. Which kits are you using? Use Hanna ULR Phosphate and Hanna High range Nitrate kits are the only real deal. Keep the cuvettes clean of smudges. Store them full of RODI water.
h) Not enough biological diversity given a dead rock start.

Obviously you're not doing ALL of these, but a couple errors are enough to keep the dinos around. The surest way of creating a hostile environment for dinos is Heavy In / Heavy Out bioload. Maybe add some live rock to your sump or display.
 

Enigma84

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I've been through a couple rounds of ostreopsis. They are never completely gone, just outcompeted in healthy, diverse biome. Initially, cyano is generally the first competitor. Then other bacterial film, then film algae start taking space. Maybe some GHA.

As this has been going on so long for you, I am going to make a few guesses.

a) You don't have a large enough (fish) bioload.
b) You are cleaning glass surfaces frequently and disturbing the competitive films.
c) Your UV is too small. You need 1 watt per 3 gallons.
d) Your UV bulb is too old. Replace it.
e) Your flow is too high. Take the manufacturers instructions for parasites and cut the flow by more than half. Dinos have a protective shell; you really gotta cook 'em.
f) Run some GAC to help remove the dino toxins.
g) Your test results are off. Which kits are you using? Use Hanna ULR Phosphate and Hanna High range Nitrate kits are the only real deal. Keep the cuvettes clean of smudges. Store them full of RODI water.
h) Not enough biological diversity given a dead rock start.

Obviously you're not doing ALL of these, but a couple errors are enough to keep the dinos around. The surest way of creating a hostile environment for dinos is Heavy In / Heavy Out bioload. Maybe add some live rock to your sump or display.
Thanks for your reply. I have been fighting it for so long and trying so many things, I've forgot some of the basics. Worth revisiting some of your points I think. I definitely think your on to something with too clean surfaces as it came back after I went to town cleaning the fuge section.
 
Lazy's Coral House

Reef and Dive

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I've been reading this when I get chance for over a year now and still not got to the end.

I have ostreopsis that I have tried just about everything on it, without it staying away long term. I am told UV is the way to fight ostreopsis, but it's come back recently in the refugium with a vengeance. I am super careful to keep the nitrate no lower than 5ppm and phosphate no lower than 0.08. I have been testing the tank almost daily since I started fighting this PITA and I know neither level has got any closer to zero.

Are we any closer to a consensus as to what can knock these back once and for all?

I've had enough now. My UV may not be effective because its slightly too small, or I haven't nailed the flow rate... Who knows. I'm fed up with ticking about and losing corals trying all of these desperate ideas.

Is there a generally agreed effective method for ostreopsis by now?

Many thanks people!

Do not waste so much time on Ostreopsis.

Today we are pretty confident an oversized UV with flow for parasites is by far the best approach.

Just get a bigger and better UV (get water from the display if you want a faster solution) and go enjoy your reef. It is a piece of cake, do not waste effort or money on other methods for Ostreopsis.

Later, if the problem goes on it is good to check if there’s not another dino over there (it happens pretty often).
 

Enigma84

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I've been through a couple rounds of ostreopsis. They are never completely gone, just outcompeted in healthy, diverse biome. Initially, cyano is generally the first competitor. Then other bacterial film, then film algae start taking space. Maybe some GHA.

As this has been going on so long for you, I am going to make a few guesses.

a) You don't have a large enough (fish) bioload.
b) You are cleaning glass surfaces frequently and disturbing the competitive films.
c) Your UV is too small. You need 1 watt per 3 gallons.
d) Your UV bulb is too old. Replace it.
e) Your flow is too high. Take the manufacturers instructions for parasites and cut the flow by more than half. Dinos have a protective shell; you really gotta cook 'em.
f) Run some GAC to help remove the dino toxins.
g) Your test results are off. Which kits are you using? Use Hanna ULR Phosphate and Hanna High range Nitrate kits are the only real deal. Keep the cuvettes clean of smudges. Store them full of RODI water.
h) Not enough biological diversity given a dead rock start.

Obviously you're not doing ALL of these, but a couple errors are enough to keep the dinos around. The surest way of creating a hostile environment for dinos is Heavy In / Heavy Out bioload. Maybe add some live rock to your sump or display.
Is there a point where they stay away do you think, or am I destined to get these back anytime my nutrients go in the lower range.
 

Reef and Dive

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Is there a point where they stay away do you think, or am I destined to get these back anytime my nutrients go in the lower range.

From a microscopic point of view, every tank has dinos.
 

attiland

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I'd say ive had dino for 3-4 months (my tank is about 7-9 months old) It was amphidinium LC before but now I think its changed to small cell and in other pictures it shows some other stuff that I cant I'd and below are videos of it, 1 coral has died and its getting out of hand, Im scared to dose SI as I feel like I dont want to overdose and it becomes a problem, So if anyone can ID the pictures that would be great, and just wondering if SI is safe? Also if there are any alternatives to SI, Thanks!

241545706_207841141312504_2795634801489785534_n.jpg
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You won’t overdose silicates. Corals seems to like the availability of silicates or at least they don’t care. If you dose go up to 2ppm it will have no negative affect.
 

attiland

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My LFS also said to not dose SI and to lower nitrates and do more water changes, they're also having dino issues. Should I listen to their advice?
Depends on the stain you have. For Amphidinium water changes and lowering nitrates would make it even worse.
the trick is to help the competition not to kill the Dinos.
Alright, thanks! I read some of the thread and which way would you suggest to clean the rocks without damaging the good bacteria in them. And also would getting a piece of live rock help for bio diversity?
Anything introduce competition for dinos will help. Be it live rocks or bacterial products. For some stains silicates dosing to help diatoms to outcompete dinos.
 
Fritz

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Later, if the problem goes on it is good to check if there’s not another dino over there (it happens pretty often).
Very very true. I forgot to mention that. Super common.
 

ScottB

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Is there a point where they stay away do you think, or am I destined to get these back anytime my nutrients go in the lower range.
There should be a time when they are consistently outcompeted by other, less noticeable microorganisms, yes. Film algae, film bacteria, microalgae, coralline algae, etc. But if you starve these out or otherwise remove them, somebody is going to fill that space. Cyanobacteria are generally pretty good at taking that space too. They do well in "noisy" or imbalanced nutrient environments.

Like bacteria, all of our tanks have dinos given time. They are never really exterminated from our live systems. I could take a scrape off my glass today and find them under my scope.
 

HenryTT

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Hello there,

This is my first time posting in R2R forum and I am looking for some advice in regards to GHA and Dino.

Current Situation:

1. Fish tank is 4 months old (100G display + 30G sump) and at the end of August a Fish Velvet outbreak kill all my fish and the tank is on fallow since then.
2. Since there is no fish and not enough clean up crew GHA start glowing all over my tank
3. I am only feeding once per week for Coral (Reef Roids) & frozen clam for all the snails, hermit crabs
4. Took a phosphate test every week to monitor phosphate

So as of today, my phosphate is at 0ppm (Hanna checker) & around 10ppm Nitrate (Salifert test kit)

My question is should I keep feeding my tank more heavy to pump up the phosphate and allow more GHA growth or the 0 phosphate reading is mainly because of the GHA is taking up all the nutrients in the water and I should not be too worry about a Dino outbreak?

Equipment still running currently: klir di-4 rollermat & protein skimmer. I took my chaeto rector offline due to the velvet outbreak.

Equipment to add this week: 25 WATT CLASSIC UV STERILIZER with around 350 gph flow for ICH management.

Thanks

 

paddle41773

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Dinos have shown up in my coral QT, ticking off all the coral. Brown snot with bubble. Can someone please help ID? @taricha or @Beardo from the OP?
20gal breeder with HOB filter/T5s/ Hydor Wavemaker / Barebottom/ Fishless with CUC
Weekly 50%WC from DT
Phosphate 0.03
Nitrate 5
Started 9w Green Killing Machine
Thank you for your time
 

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taricha

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Dinos have shown up in my coral QT, ticking off all the coral.
These are motionless under the microscope?
I'm betting chrysophytes. Not a dino. Search forum for chrysophytes threads. People are trying a few different things for them.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Do a rip clean, twenty gallons is easy to control only large tanks have to entertain dinos

look how it was before page ten


nanos don’t have the same rules as large tanks have. If you ran the rip clean and followed the rinse rules you‘ll have a very sharp reef.


what we do isn’t anarchy lol that’s how you clean tanks to move homes correctly

the process doesn’t become bad or destabilizing just because your tank doesnt move homes. Independently evaluated alone, rip cleans are positive for tanks, using them to beat dinos doesn’t make the outcomes bad.

source for claims: find a rip cleaned reef where the owner is unhappy and post here. they’re all happy, with outstanding reefs

if you read that water changes are bad for dinos what they meant to say was partial water changes are bad, rip cleans aren’t partial changes.
 
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paddle41773

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Do a rip clean, twenty gallons is easy to control only large tanks have to entertain dinos

look how it was before page ten


nanos don’t have the same rules as large tanks have. If you ran the rip clean and followed the rinse rules you‘ll have a very sharp reef.


what we do isn’t anarchy lol that’s how you clean tanks to move homes correctly

the process doesn’t become bad or destabilizing just because your tank doesnt move homes. Independently evaluated alone, rip cleans are positive for tanks, using them to beat dinos doesn’t make the outcomes bad.

source for claims: find a rip cleaned reef where the owner is unhappy and post here. they’re all happy, with outstanding reefs

if you read that water changes are bad for dinos what they meant to say was partial water changes are bad, rip cleans aren’t partial changes.
Thanks for the reply! Rip clean is very feasible, this is my quarantine tank, and have about 6 weeks left this batch of corals before I could tear it down.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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that thread has nuances too, look how his rocks were tap rinsed. not saying all tanks need that, but all tanks tolerate it if we need the stepped up osmotic pressure especially in a dinos battle. sounds crazy I know but we have four of these done recently where they did use tap on the rocks solely because the rocks were newish, without a lot of corals and coralline, and the tap interval was just to stress dinos cells


the point is we can use disassembly cleaning to circumvent months of tinkering and wait, its a total cheat. the process is vetted across all size tanks because all size tanks do exactly the same steps for fifty pages and its two million bucks or more of rip cleans plus trackable outcomes below.

its so ironic that something this insulting works so well for the masses.



*we rarely have folks tap water rinse the rocks, that's for reserved battles :)

the basic rip procedure of just blasting off rocks with saltwater swishing/twisting in clean water or a brush usually works but for larger systems or once we want to hit in one pass most likely, we step up to tap rinsing of the rocks, not just sand, even though that seems mighty crazy. if there were corals glued on the rocks, we wouldnt tap water hit corals we'd spot apply creatively.

we use surgical precision there, not haphazard

here's another tap rinse, check the outcome even though it wasnt used for dinos it was a gha rip cean by Jedi



every single reef is doing the same steps, the only variation are the few who got tap water rinsed rocks.
used in dinos battles, we win very often.
 
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Deltec

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