Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Yazannreef · Jan 21, 2022

jamesdomini4 said:
Should I use GFO?

My tank is coming out of the second dino outbreak (prorocentrum). Both times it was caused by using fluconazole followed by chemiclean (I was a little impulsive with their use).

The tank is now 6 months old. It is a 25 gallon nano. I see dinos (air bubbles towards the end of the photo period) on only 1 rock. I do not see any mucus layers or strands. The sand bed has a light dusting of diatoms. It has been staying that way for a week. I do not have explosive hair algae yet; my urchin and hermits clean them up quickly.

My problem - Phosphates have been staying above 0.00 since the end of December. I didn’t dose that much phosphates but had some sail die off. It is currently sitting at 0.254. Measured with Hanna phosphorus ULR. Is it too early to use GFO? I want to bring it just under 0.100.

Additional points:

Phospahtes whet up when I ramped up SpongExcel dosing. Have not dosed any since 2 weeks.

My nitrates bottom out if I do not dose. That has been a problem during the entire 6 months.

I dose AFR. Tank is mostly SPS.

I would try to raise your nitrates to at least 10ppm mark and you will start seeing phosphate going down assuming you are not feeding a lot of phosphate rich fish foods.

GFO will reduce phosphates but you have to be careful not to bottom it out. I would use a little first and see the effect and go from there. Make sure to test daily to monitor it.

I used phosphate E from brightwell to lower my phosphate before as that is a very controlled method . Just follow the instructions on the bottle to achieve your desired target

Acros · Jan 21, 2022

Yazreef said:
I would try to raise your nitrates to at least 10ppm mark and you will start seeing phosphate going down assuming you are not feeding a lot of phosphate rich fish foods.

GFO will reduce phosphates but you have to be careful not to bottom it out. I would use a little first and see the effect and go from there. Make sure to test daily to monitor it.

I used phosphate E from brightwell to lower my phosphate before as that is a very controlled method . Just follow the instructions on the bottle to achieve your desired target

I feel reef nutrition pellets on the regular. Also feed 1/8 cube of mysis couple times a week.

I am a little anxious that dinos will be back if I lower phosphates to 0.1. Is 0.254 too high for an SPS dominant tank? My PC Rainbow rtn when the phosphates hit 0.3. It was also picked on by a fish that I rehomed a week before it rtn.

Yazannreef · Jan 21, 2022

jamesdomini4 said:
I feel reef nutrition pellets on the regular. Also feed 1/8 cube of mysis couple times a week.

I am a little anxious that dinos will be back if I lower phosphates to 0.1. Is 0.254 too high for an SPS dominant tank? My PC Rainbow rtn when the phosphates hit 0.3. It was also picked on by a fish that I rehomed a week before it rtn.

Pellets are known to have high level of phosphates.

As far as lowering your phosphate. As long as phosphate to nitrate is in ratio I wouldn't worry about imbalance. For instance. If you want your phos to be at 0.1 I would shoot for a 10ppm nitrate( 1/100 ratio)

Your tank is still new so I wouldn't go high nutrients ( 0.2ppm phos to 20ppm nitrate) because only aged tanks can handle that amount of nutrients in my opinion.

Only imbalance in phosphate and nitrate is what creates problems. Just get them in a ratio mentioned above and I believe you should be good to go.

Rtn on SPS normally happens with spikes of alk or temp or both. So I would check alk and see if your #'s are consistent.

Acros · Jan 21, 2022

Yazreef said:
Pellets are known to have high level of phosphates.

As far as lowering your phosphate. As long as phosphate to nitrate is in ration I wouldn't worry about imbalance. For instance. If you want your phos to be at 0.1 I would shoot for a 10ppm nitrate( 1/100 ratio)

Your tank is still new so I would go high nutrients ( 0.2ppm phos to 20ppm nitrate) because only aged tanks can handle that amount of nutrients in my opinion.

Only imbalance in phosphate and nitrate is what creates problems. Just get them in a ratio mentioned above and I believe you should be good to go.

Rtn on SPS normally happens with spikes of alk or temp or both. So I would check all and see if your #'s are consistent.

Did you mean to say that only aged tanks can tolerate low nutrients (10pm nitrate and 0.1ppm phosphate)?

My alk was down to 6.6 after a tank move early Dec. I bought it up to 8.4 very slowly over a period of 1 month. Holding steady there. I haven’t noticed any temp swings. That is something I will keep an eye on.

iLMaRiO · Jan 21, 2022

Yazreef said:
That looks a lot like diatoms to me.

i'm not sure, checking at microscope i don't see what i think are diatoms, but A LOT of unknown cells, like previous video

ScottB · Jan 21, 2022

jamesdomini4 said:
Should I use GFO?

My tank is coming out of the second dino outbreak (prorocentrum). Both times it was caused by using fluconazole followed by chemiclean (I was a little impulsive with their use).

The tank is now 6 months old. It is a 25 gallon nano. I see dinos (air bubbles towards the end of the photo period) on only 1 rock. I do not see any mucus layers or strands. The sand bed has a light dusting of diatoms. It has been staying that way for a week. I do not have explosive hair algae yet; my urchin and hermits clean them up quickly.

My problem - Phosphates have been staying above 0.00 since the end of December. I didn’t dose that much phosphates but had some sail die off. It is currently sitting at 0.254. Measured with Hanna phosphorus ULR. Is it too early to use GFO? I want to bring it just under 0.100.

Additional points:

Phospahtes whet up when I ramped up SpongExcel dosing. Have not dosed any since 2 weeks.

My nitrates bottom out if I do not dose. That has been a problem during the entire 6 months.

I dose AFR. Tank is mostly SPS.

My general suggestion would be to slow down. In 6 months, you've added more chemical variety than I have in several years. Fluc should ONLY be used for bryopsis. For bryopsis, you have no other choice other than a reboot. Ditch the Chemiclean.

Given all that biome disturbance, I am a bit surprised you have SPS alive still. A gentle GFO course might be okay if you can avoid the impulse to rush it. Your PO4 will see-saw up/down for a good long while. Just go slow and get the trend downward sloping.

ScottB · Jan 21, 2022

Yazreef said:
I would try to raise your nitrates to at least 10ppm mark and you will start seeing phosphate going down assuming you are not feeding a lot of phosphate rich fish foods.

GFO will reduce phosphates but you have to be careful not to bottom it out. I would use a little first and see the effect and go from there. Make sure to test daily to monitor it.

I used phosphate E from brightwell to lower my phosphate before as that is a very controlled method . Just follow the instructions on the bottle to achieve your desired target

I agree with all of this. If you are low on nitrates, phosphates can run up. A 100:1 ratio like 10/.10 is a fine target.

Acros · Jan 21, 2022

ScottB said:
My general suggestion would be to slow down. In 6 months, you've added more chemical variety than I have in several years. Fluc should ONLY be used for bryopsis. For bryopsis, you have no other choice other than a reboot. Ditch the Chemiclean.

Given all that biome disturbance, I am a bit surprised you have SPS alive still. A gentle GFO course might be okay if you can avoid the impulse to rush it. Your PO4 will see-saw up/down for a good long while. Just go slow and get the trend downward sloping.

I realized that I was adding way too many chemicals. I did a 100% water change during my move (early December). Have not added anything other than NeoNitro, very little NeoPhos, SpongExcel and AFT dosing.

My frags are surprisingly encrusting and growing at a decent pace. I started with real live rock from gulfliverock.com. Some of the hitchhiker, bivalves, cup corals and sponges are still alive. AIO chamber was full of pineapple sponges when I inspected it before the move.

I will go slow, test phosphates every other day and look at the trend.

Yazannreef · Jan 21, 2022

jamesdomini4 said:
Did you mean to say that only aged tanks can tolerate low nutrients (10pm nitrate and 0.1ppm phosphate)?

My alk was down to 6.6 after a tank move early Dec. I bought it up to 8.4 very slowly over a period of 1 month. Holding steady there. I haven’t noticed any temp swings. That is something I will keep an eye on.

What I meant was that aged tank can tolerate high nutrients. I would stick to water changes for now and

jamesdomini4 said:
I realized that I was adding way too many chemicals. I did a 100% water change during my move (early December). Have not added anything other than NeoNitro, very little NeoPhos, SpongExcel and AFT dosing.

My frags are surprisingly encrusting and growing at a decent pace. I started with real live rock from gulfliverock.com. Some of the hitchhiker, bivalves, cup corals and sponges are still alive. AIO chamber was full of pineapple sponges when I inspected it before the move.

I will go slow, test phosphates every other day and look at the trend.

That's the right move. Just move slow and study. I would focus more on the microbiology of your reef tank. When balanced it's an ecosystem that really takes care of it self.

Adding chemicals helps but it is just a bandaid that would serve a purpose at that point in time.

Was your rocks and sand transfered from an established tank or is it a brand new setup?

ScottB · Jan 21, 2022

jamesdomini4 said:
I realized that I was adding way too many chemicals. I did a 100% water change during my move (early December). Have not added anything other than NeoNitro, very little NeoPhos, SpongExcel and AFT dosing.

My frags are surprisingly encrusting and growing at a decent pace. I started with real live rock from gulfliverock.com. Some of the hitchhiker, bivalves, cup corals and sponges are still alive. AIO chamber was full of pineapple sponges when I inspected it before the move.

I will go slow, test phosphates every other day and look at the trend.

Glad your SPS are growing well. Good on you for the live rock start! I am huge fan of live rock.

Yazannreef · Jan 21, 2022

Yazreef said:
What I meant was that aged tank can tolerate high nutrients. I would stick to water changes for now and

That's the right move. Just move slow and study. I would focus more on the microbiology of your reef tank. When balanced it's an ecosystem that really takes care of it self.

Adding chemicals helps but it is just a bandaid that would serve a purpose at that point in time.

Was your rocks and sand transfered from an established tank or is it a brand new setup?

You answered the rock sand situation on previous post so that's great!!

Acros · Jan 21, 2022

Yazreef said:
What I meant was that aged tank can tolerate high nutrients. I would stick to water changes for now and

That's the right move. Just move slow and study. I would focus more on the microbiology of your reef tank. When balanced it's an ecosystem that really takes care of it self.

Adding chemicals helps but it is just a bandaid that would serve a purpose at that point in time.

Was your rocks and sand transfered from an established tank or is it a brand new setup?

The rocks were real live rock I got from gulfliverock.com. I have no idea how most of the hitchhikers pulled through the dino outbreak. I see new things come up even after 6 months. So far all has been good.

I lost all of my copepod and amphipod population to the first Dino outbreak. Copepods are back now, no sign of amphipods.

Yazannreef · Jan 21, 2022

jamesdomini4 said:
The rocks were real live rock I got from gulfliverock.com. I have no idea how most of the hitchhikers pulled through the dino outbreak. I see new things come up even after 6 months. So far all has been good.

I lost all of my copepod and amphipod population to the first Dino outbreak. Copepods are back now, no sign of amphipods.

That's great. You can always seed more pods if you would like.

I'm suspecting maybe your live rock are saturated with phosphate and just now leaching it in the water column. It will eventually equalize as the demand grow from your bacteria that feeds corals.

The one thing I know is there is always die off of bacteria and microbes and sometimes it's good to seed it back in your tank. My experience with that was when recently had dinos I started seeding with microbacter 7 and reef enhance for microbial diversity and in a matter of a week they outcompeted dinos.

It's just a balancing act. Bad Bacteria ( cyano/ Dino and bad algae( green/ turf..)
Are very opportunistic. If they are no organisms that fights them for nutrients they flourish and take over.