Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[BoomCorals]

So whats the cheapest microscope that will be adequate enough to see dinos?

Got this one on Amazon for like $10
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B071JQFXC4/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[reeferfoxx]

Got this one on Amazon for like $10
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B071JQFXC4/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Perfect!! Thanks!

Update: Ordered lol

 

[taricha]

Let me know what you find! I thought they were quite large as well!

My best guess is Striatella diatoms. I don't love the match but, marine diatom, 100+ microns, rectangular, evenly pigmented, pigmentation extends radially out from center point, can't find anything else similar.
BTW, if microscope showed an attachment strand on any of those diatoms (like in the linked photo), that would be definitive - although sometimes they appear in photos without the strand.

 

[tenurepro]

I guess i am now a member of this Dino club;
here is link of the original discovery - at first i thought it was Cyano but it wasn't responding to chemiclean; a few hours of scope and research, the good folks here helped me confirm the ID: Dinoflagellates: Prorocentrum sp.

While i promise to read this thread in due time, I am hoping @mcarroll and other experts will help answer the following questions so i can start plotting my immediate moves...
1) will something like dinoX work?
2) will a blackout work (I do notice it growing at night, so perhaps it’s not entirely dependent on photosynthesis)
3) will hydrogen peroxide work?
4) if I do the natural treatment of increasing no3 and po4 and let nature balance the system, do I stop skimming? Stop water changes? Turn off fuge?
5) I have high flow for sps (50x volume per hour), should I reduce flow, increase it?
6) should I continue running carbon?
7) almost all of the dinos are on the sand bed... should I remove the sand bed, soak it in fresh water or bleach and then add it back
8) would a uv sterilizer help?

Thanks!

 

[taricha]

Oops. I should have replied here. Apologies for cross post from your other thread.

Hi @mcarroll ; I promise to read the important thread that you mentioned, but will not be able to do all 117 pages anytime soon. Wondering if you can help with some of the ideas.

Given the ID is prorocentrum,
1) will something like dinoX work?
2) will a blackout work (I do notice it growing at night, so perhaps it’s not entirely dependent on photosynthesis)
3) will hydrogen peroxide work?
4) if I do the natural treatment of increasing no3 and po4 and let nature balance the system, do I stop skimming? Stop water changes? Turn off fuge?
5) I have high flow for sps (50x volume per hour), should I reduce flow, increase it?
6) should I continue running carbon?
7) almost all of the dinos are on the sand bed... should I remove the sand bed, soak it in fresh water or bleach and then add it back
8) would a uv sterilizer help?

Thanks to you and all the very helpful people that responded to this thread!

You are right on ID, it's definitely prorocentrum. I love your sketch! Only key feature of prorocentrum that you left out that's in the photos is the circle structure in the center (pyrenoid).

@mcarrol does a good job of updating first post to index to key ideas and make reading most of thread not necessary.

1-3 not recommended.
4. dose. Don't stop skimming, water changes, or cut fuge.
5 flow is fine, if you cut flow, proros can likely colonize more surfaces than just sand.
6 assuming you mean activated carbon, yes - proros can be toxic and livestock dieoff says yours is.
7 no. You want to selectively remove dino cells and support competition.
This would wipe out competition and give dinos free plentiful real estate.
8 yes. UV helps vs proros, and should be near a watt per 2 gallon. Be aware of killing dino cells releasing toxins.

 

[Lowefx]

So could my dino die off be what's causing ALL of my LPS to STN? Otherwise I have no explanation. I even sent for a water test, and everything is ok. ?I raised alk and Ca since test)

 

[taricha]

So could my dino die off be what's causing ALL of my LPS to STN? Otherwise I have no explanation. I even sent for a water test, and everything is ok. ?I raised alk and Ca since test)

Theories:
1 dino toxins
2 other unknown organics associated with dinos that are making LPS unhappy.
3 a trace element limitation caused dinos to be unable to grow, and also is causing lps to waste away (But your test results seem to rule this out for all the biologically necessary elements I can think of.)
4. Some other potent chemical warfare organism in the system.
5. Something else?

If GAC doesn't help (could help if it's 1,2 or 4) then I dunno.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Ok, So my $10 microscope is barely barely adequate enough to get a clear image. From what I can tell they are rounded and swim fast and not circular. My best guess is Amphidinium or Prorocentrum? Any ideas?

 

[BoomCorals]

Ok, So my $10 microscope is barely barely adequate enough to get a clear image. From what I can tell they are rounded and swim fast and not circular. My best guess is Amphidinium or Prorocentrum? Any ideas?

It helps if you use two plates with sample in the middle.

 

[reeferfoxx]

It helps if you use two plates with sample in the middle.

Yeah I tried that, the clarity became worse.

 

[sfin52]

@tenurepro sorry you are now part of the club.

 

[tenurepro]

@tenurepro sorry you are now part of the club.

Dubious distinction... I know, but determined to see this through

 

[reeferfoxx]

Ok, So my $10 microscope is barely barely adequate enough to get a clear image. From what I can tell they are rounded and swim fast and not circular. My best guess is Amphidinium or Prorocentrum? Any ideas?

I will say this is at "1200x"(toy magnification) focused as far as it can go. So these things seem tiny.

 

[reeferfoxx]

So this isn't the common dinos that everyone else is getting. Great. From what I can tell is this might be a type of Alexandrium. However, the only characteristics that sets this apart is they often times connect in twos or more to form long or short chains. Seems they thrive in nitrogenous environments.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'm thinking a large water change should help reduce these?

 

[taricha]

Ok, So my $10 microscope is barely barely adequate enough to get a clear image. From what I can tell they are rounded and swim fast and not circular. My best guess is Amphidinium or Prorocentrum? Any ideas?

I think these are Coolia. almost spherical. swim with kind of a burst-rotate-burst-rotate pattern. Check these pics and vids from my system for comparison.

and these vids ID by people who study this stuff...

 

[reeferfoxx]

I think these are Coolia. almost spherical. swim with kind of a burst-rotate-burst-rotate pattern. Check these pics and vids from my system for comparison.

and these vids ID by people who study this stuff...

Yes! Looks just like this! Especially compared to your vids. Whats the protocol for getting rid of these?

 

[Lowefx]

Theories:
1 dino toxins
2 other unknown organics associated with dinos that are making LPS unhappy.
3 a trace element limitation caused dinos to be unable to grow, and also is causing lps to waste away (But your test results seem to rule this out for all the biologically necessary elements I can think of.)
4. Some other potent chemical warfare organism in the system.
5. Something else?

If GAC doesn't help (could help if it's 1,2 or 4) then I dunno.

1 dino toxins-possibly
2 other unknown organics associated with dinos that are making LPS unhappy.-possibly
3 a trace element limitation caused dinos to be unable to grow, and also is causing lps to waste away (But your test results seem to rule this out for all the biologically necessary elements I can think of.)-I've asked around, and same answer, nothing sticks out as abnormal
4. Some other potent chemical warfare organism in the system.
5. Something else?- not bugs, (day or night) I try to feed mysis and tentacles never come out or mouth opens. No3-8 Po4-.06 two nights ago.
Once again, it is not limited to just one type of coral. This is effecting all LPS. Acans, Wilsoni, Chalice's, Trumpets, and Frogspawn.
I am not sure what else to test or check to figure out what's wrong. Doing another 30g WC this week on my 120g.

 

[Lowefx]

Also, My turbo snails and astraea snails die, but the Nassarius and Conch stay alive. I think this may have something to do with dino toxins. But why wouldn't it kill all snails?

 

[mcarroll]

@Lowefx
Nassarius and the Conch are really detritus eaters – or even carnivores. Nassarius beat the hermits to the dead stuff in the wild. (Yes, someone has studied that. )

Only the real algae eaters are directly vulnerable.

I didn't see not N and P levels in those test results you posted. How are those?

Have all levels and the whole system been stable, or have things been happening?