Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Beardo]

@taricha @mcarroll So, lately the tank has been progressing well. No N and P dosing, just letting nutrients slowly and naturally build up. In this time I saw a huge decrease in GHA and Coolia. However, I'm seeing more and more spots of cyano(i'll take this as progress) and in addition a few small brown spots and a brown film on the glass. I decided to scrape the glass to put under the scope. What I saw was interesting. The brown stuff is dinos but I'm not sure what kind or if it's just offspring from the bigger brothers. To confirm this I took a little patch of what GHA I have left to compare to. What I'm seeing is tiny dinos maybe 1/50th the size of Coolia or smaller. Unfortunately, they are too small for me to get a picture. But it looks like little specs zooming around. Some spinning and some doing the spin and burst and some just swimming straight. Any thoughts?

Are these dinos really fast and spin in a tight circle?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Are these dinos really fast and spin in a tight circle?

Some do. It's like a large playground of baby dinos. Or at least that is what I am suspecting. That said, I can't find any of the coolia I had before. So it seems like a mix of various species but at a midget level lol.

 

[Beardo]

Some do. It's like a large playground of baby dinos. Or at least that is what I am suspecting. That said, I can't find any of the coolia I had before. So it seems like a mix of various species but at a midget level lol.

I had the same small fast ones that spin in a circle but never positively identified them. I was suspecting gyrodinium but that is just a guess. The majority seemed to be with cyano and algae scrapings, not masses on their own. Mine have mostly faded over time. Some Amphidinium species are pretty small as well but move differently.
Don't believe they are Coolia offspring.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I had the same small fast ones that spin in a circle but never positively identified them. I was suspecting gyrodinium but that is just a guess. The majority seemed to be with cyano and algae scrapings, not masses on their own. Mine have mostly faded over time. Some Amphidinium species are pretty small as well but move differently.
Don't believe they are Coolia offspring.

Like I said, it's hard telling. If I could make an educated guess, it's like several species in their infancy figuring out which ones will be the dominant growth. However, I really hope they just disappear.

 

[taricha]

Yeah, if you see a bunch of tiny cells, then those are a tiny species. Dinos don't do masses of tiny "dino fry".
There are small cell amphidinium that are better faster swimmers than their larger relatives, but agree with beardo. Likely not what you are looking at.
Jason has also posted some tiny fast spinny dino looking things that sound similar. Like beardo said, gyrodinium/gymnodinium is a good guess for these guys. I've never had them personally.
If they are that fast, they are more likely predators and will fade with their food source.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Yeah, if you see a bunch of tiny cells, then those are a tiny species. Dinos don't do masses of tiny "dino fry".
There are small cell amphidinium that are better faster swimmers than their larger relatives, but agree with beardo. Likely not what you are looking at.
Jason has also posted some tiny fast spinny dino looking things that sound similar. Like beardo said, gyrodinium/gymnodinium is a good guess for these guys. I've never had them personally.
If they are that fast, they are more likely predators and will fade with their food source.

Awesome! Well, how many more species are there so I know how many more rounds I have left? ;Hilarious;Meh;Dead Kidding. Crossing fingers this is a sign they are on their way out.

 

[Beardo]

Awesome! Well, how many more species are there so I know how many more rounds I have left? ;Hilarious;Meh;Dead Kidding. Crossing fingers this is a sign they are on their way out.

There are only about 2,000 species so you are just getting started

 

[reeferfoxx]

There are only about 2,000 species so you are just getting started

About 1,997 to go! ;Drowning

 

[Derek Clifford]

. Some spinning and some doing the spin and burst and some just swimming straight. Any thoughts?

check out the videos in my post on 3rd Oct. I think you are describing something I had seen previously. Some said it might be tetraselmis.

 

[mcarroll]

check out the videos in my post on 3rd Oct. I think you are describing something I had seen previously. Some said it might be tetraselmis.

Quick link to post #1112. (I hope that's the one you're referring to! )

@reeferfoxx ;Headphone

 

[taricha]

Thank you! Will the tank at some point not need any dosing? I don’t know how my phosphate wouldn’t just rise naturally. It makes me concerned that the moment dosing stops, the Dino comes back.

Seen this mentioned a couple of times.
No. You won't have to dose forever. Just during the time of Dino chemical madness.
Once dinos are gone, the tank nutrient consumption becomes much more normal and predictable. And the nutrient (P&N) needs of a healthy tank may eventually be met by feeding only.

 

[Denisk]

Seen this mentioned a couple of times.
No. You won't have to dose forever. Just during the time of Dino chemical madness.
Once dinos are gone, the tank nutrient consumption becomes much more normal and predictable. And the nutrient (P&N) needs of a healthy tank may eventually be met by feeding only.

Gotcha. So I as mentioned a few posts ago. I started doing phosphate and my sps started to grow really fast and the color was incredible. The downfall is the Dino exploded. It’s worse than it ever has been.

 

[taricha]

Yep. In some cases, dosing nutrients increases dinos temporarily. Physical removal/killing of dino cells by siphoning or uv/other water column targeting is strongly recommended while the elevated P and N allow healthy biodiversity to be established.

 

[Beardo]

Gotcha. So I as mentioned a few posts ago. I started doing phosphate and my sps started to grow really fast and the color was incredible. The downfall is the Dino exploded. It’s worse than it ever has been.

Had the same thing happen; starting dosing N and P, growth of corals took off and colors looked great. Then a few weeks in dinos exploded. Upgrading my UV made a huge difference for me, but the method for killing will depend on the species.

 

[Denisk]

Had the same thing happen; starting dosing N and P, growth of corals took off and colors looked great. Then a few weeks in dinos exploded. Upgrading my UV made a huge difference for me, but the method for killing will depend on the species.

Interesting. I just ordered a uv sterilizer in hopes that it helps. Did you skim dry at the time or very wet? Thanks.

 

[ccbobafett]

Sorry for late reply was busy and waiting for a good amount of algae to grow so I could collect it for test. So I took some algae put it in a cup shook it up and ran it through a paper towel. Is currently sitting under a lamp and eating to see if it grows back. Thanks

 

[tenurepro]

Hi @taricha and others; can you have a look at this video and help ID. So my dinos are no longer symptomatic, but under the scope i can still find cells hanging around algae... the sample in the video below was taken from a little scraping of the buildup on a frag rack... whats interesting is it looks different than the species that was most common on my sandbed; prorocentrum... this looks different to my eye

p.s. video contains several magnifications; higher mag is towards the end; you can see the flagellum

 

[Beardo]

Interesting. I just ordered a uv sterilizer in hopes that it helps. Did you skim dry at the time or very wet? Thanks.

skimmed on the wetter side but not what I would consider super wet. You should run activated carbon to help deal with toxins from Dino die off

 

[ccbobafett]

Ok so it has been a few hours and no sight of algae growth! Perhaps it’s just cyano? Will keep looking.

 

[chefjpaul]

I think an issue we hobbyist are having with this plant, is the variables.
I've seen every method, theory and trial of eradication, yet only a few know how these actually survive.
For the most part they are all almost, if not a mixotrophic.

This maybe why any given eradication method works for one, not another.
There is a limit starving factor somewhere in the universe.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.0022-3646.1995.00456.x/full