Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[pharazon]

Anyone care to take a guess at what I’m seeing here? I’ve fought ostreopsis before so I’m very familiar with them, but these don’t look like anything I’ve seen posted online.

This sample was collected from a brown dusting that accumulates on the sand bed as the day goes on, and mostly dissipates at night. I believe there are diatoms in there as well, but I’m not familiar with the organism that has a line through the middle of it.

 

[drawman]

Anyone care to take a guess at what I’m seeing here? I’ve fought ostreopsis before so I’m very familiar with them, but these don’t look like anything I’ve seen posted online.

This sample was collected from a brown dusting that accumulates on the sand bed as the day goes on, and mostly dissipates at night. I believe there are diatoms in there as well, but I’m not familiar with the organism that has a line through the middle of it.

Definitely diatoms in there but no clue what the others are.

 

[primoleo]

Can you guys please confirm I'm dealing with ostreopsis here?

Besides increasing nutrients and other general measures, what would be the plan of action here?
Thanks

 

[drawman]

Can you guys please confirm I'm dealing with ostreopsis here?

Besides increasing nutrients and other general measures, what would be the plan of action here?
Thanks

Looks like ostreopsis to me. I have no direct experience yet but a UV sterilizer is supposed to help. Just parroting what others have said.

 

[ScottB]

Can you guys please confirm I'm dealing with ostreopsis here?

Besides increasing nutrients and other general measures, what would be the plan of action here?
Thanks

I see the ostreopsis for sure but cannot confirm the absence or presence of "other". @taricha can speak to other identifiable critter in those photos. Given you know what ostreo look like, you must also have a UV in the arsenal right? Fire that killer up right now.

 

[ScottB]

Another buddy of mine joining the crowd with dinos. I am unfamiliar with these. If I had to guess... small cell amphidium? Or procentrum?

This sample has been in the trunk of my car for... a bit... so might be exhibiting less energy than several hours previously. And my videography skills remain nascent. Sorry @taricha

 

[taricha]

This sample was collected from a brown dusting that accumulates on the sand bed

Unless they swim around with a flagella, those are diatoms.

Can you guys please confirm I'm dealing with ostreopsis here?

Like ScottB said, ostreopsis is the only thing of concern in there.

Another buddy of mine joining the crowd with dinos. I am unfamiliar with these.

Common large cell amphidinium.

 

[nick9one1]

Can anyone confirm these to be Coolia?

Anyone?

 

[taricha]

Can anyone confirm these to be Coolia?

Agreed. Coolia likely.

I finally was able to get some pictures under the scope. Do you have an ID

Great pics of ostreopsis!
Double thick cell walls 1st pic can indicate short term cysts ~3 days.
2nd pic shows the stingy mucus material that holds dino strings together.

do you just use a water sample or do you collect some of this stuff off the rock? If its off the rock, how do you collect it?

Use a pipette or similar to suck brown material off the rock/sand.

 

[drawman]

Just started Dr. Tim's blackout/Refresh/Wasteaway treatment. Only thing I haven't done is wrap the tank for a full blackout.

 

[taricha]

It does appear to be Ostreopsis as well. Without going through 410 pages is there a good place to start with treatment for Ostreopsis?

Also, I found this ID online and it seemed really useful. Please delete this if not allowed.

(1) Amphidinium cf. carterae, (2) Bysmatrum caponii, (3) Cabra cf. aremonica, (4) Coolia monotis, (5) Durinskia capensis, (6) Gambierdiscus caribaeus, (7) Ostreopsis heptagona, (8) Plagiodinium belizeanum, (9) Prorocentrum concavum, (10) Prorocentrum foraminosum, (11) Prorocentrum hoffmanianum, (12) Prorocentrum lima, (13) Prorocentrum rhathymum, (14) Prorocentrum sculptile, (15) Prorocentrum cf. sipadanensis, (16) Prorocentrum sp., (17) Sinophysis ebriola, (18) Sinophysis microcephala, (19) Sinophysis stenosoma, (20) ?Togula sp. Scale bars = 10 µm.

Credit - https://www.researchgate.net/figure...e-northern-Yucatan-Peninsula-1_fig6_261172042

This is fantastic. Searching for "epiphytic" or "benthic" dinoflagellates weeds out the planktonic types that never cause us problems.
1- shows up as small cell amphidinium
4- is a less common one we have sometimes
6- literally only two cases of this kind have been seen in the hobby, one was revhtree, and the other was a PM I got a couple weeks ago.
7- this or other ostreopsis are frequently seen
9-16 may all appear, but 12 is the most common appearance we see.

Only other dino that we get commonly that isn't listed is a large cell amphidinium type - it is entirely a ghost in the scientific literature. I've never seen a paper on a type of amphidinium dino that was a match for the amphidinium we see all the time.

 

[Benj2112]

If you are adding bacteria as part of the dino battle, would it make sense to use a turkey baster to target squirt the bacteria liquid to locations you have had dino issues (sand... rock)? Or just dump the bacteria liquid in the tank and it will do just as well?

 

[ScottB]

It does appear to be Ostreopsis as well. Without going through 410 pages is there a good place to start with treatment for Ostreopsis?

Also, I found this ID online and it seemed really useful. Please delete this if not allowed.

(1) Amphidinium cf. carterae, (2) Bysmatrum caponii, (3) Cabra cf. aremonica, (4) Coolia monotis, (5) Durinskia capensis, (6) Gambierdiscus caribaeus, (7) Ostreopsis heptagona, (8) Plagiodinium belizeanum, (9) Prorocentrum concavum, (10) Prorocentrum foraminosum, (11) Prorocentrum hoffmanianum, (12) Prorocentrum lima, (13) Prorocentrum rhathymum, (14) Prorocentrum sculptile, (15) Prorocentrum cf. sipadanensis, (16) Prorocentrum sp., (17) Sinophysis ebriola, (18) Sinophysis microcephala, (19) Sinophysis stenosoma, (20) ?Togula sp. Scale bars = 10 µm.

Credit - https://www.researchgate.net/figure...e-northern-Yucatan-Peninsula-1_fig6_261172042

Awesome. That link is a keeper. I keep the strangest set of bookmarks; this one will fit in nicely.

 

[ScottB]

I have been manually raising since Monday and removing as much as I can daily. Seems to be helping

Another tip for you regarding removal. Even better, it helps to keep the snot off your corals (or did for me).

Cut some strips of filter floss -- the blue/white stuff. Depending on tank size, something like 4X6inch are even larger. Punch a hole on one or both ends and run a zip tie through it and attach it to a suction cup tightly.

Stick it to the glass in a high light and high flow area. Rinse each night. Dinos seem to love congregating on this stuff if you put it in the right places. I hung the stuff on all four sides and only occasionally had to clean up other areas.

Lastly on the UV:
1 watt per 3 gallons at 3-400gph or manufacturer minimum flow rate to protect bulb
Works MUCH faster if plumbed to & from the display itself, not the sump.

 

[Xavier434]

Also, I found this ID online and it seemed really useful. Please delete this if not allowed.

(1) Amphidinium cf. carterae, (2) Bysmatrum caponii, (3) Cabra cf. aremonica, (4) Coolia monotis, (5) Durinskia capensis, (6) Gambierdiscus caribaeus, (7) Ostreopsis heptagona, (8) Plagiodinium belizeanum, (9) Prorocentrum concavum, (10) Prorocentrum foraminosum, (11) Prorocentrum hoffmanianum, (12) Prorocentrum lima, (13) Prorocentrum rhathymum, (14) Prorocentrum sculptile, (15) Prorocentrum cf. sipadanensis, (16) Prorocentrum sp., (17) Sinophysis ebriola, (18) Sinophysis microcephala, (19) Sinophysis stenosoma, (20) ?Togula sp. Scale bars = 10 µm.

Credit - https://www.researchgate.net/figure...e-northern-Yucatan-Peninsula-1_fig6_261172042

This deserves to be added to the original post imo.


Quick update on my battle with Prorocentrum over the last few weeks. Details are below, but the key take away is that exporting the DINOs from the tank is absolutely critical in the process of getting rid of them entirely. If you are not exporting them using methods such as filter floss, vacuuming, etc then you need to start. Concentrating only on what you add to the tank is not enough for many people to succeed in this fight.

• NO3 is at 13ppm. PO4 is at 0.08ppm. I'm happy with these numbers.

• UV is still running in the tank from the display directly back into the display.

• I've been blowing around the sand daily usually just after the lights go out so that the UV is more effective.

• I attached a sheet of filter floss to a high flow area. This has produced great results. I rinse it at least once a day and every time it is covered in DINOs. They stick to the stuff like flypaper and seem to like it more than the rocks and sand.

• I vacuumed up as many of the DINOs on the sand as I could several days ago. I purposely waited until about an hour before my lights went out so that as many of the DINOs would be accumulated on the sand as possible. This was a great decision. I exported a ton of DINOs in the process and immediately noticed a very large decrease in their presence ever since. In particular, I noticed that the filter floss that I added was gathering DINOs much slower indicating to me that their population in my water was far less.

• I have been dosing Vibrant once per week. I am on dose #2 and I am about to use #3. I am really not sure if this is helping or hurting. After the first dose, it seemed like the DINOs were flourishing more but by the 2nd dose they were weaker. However, during this time I was also raising my PO4 a lot and I had added the filter floss so the weakening could have been due to those changes alone. I plan to perform 5 doses total since that is what the product recommends for DINOs, but for now I am not convinced that it works on my particular species. I am also concerned that it killed other algae that I want to compete with the DINOs right now. For those on the fence about trying this product, I say give it a go if nothing else is working but be prepared to accept that it might put you a step backward. I will say that it does work exceptionally well when it comes to making the water more clear though.

The battle continues, but I think that I am winning.

 

[HWDylan]

I can see my Prorocentrum/coolia mix starting to creep back in on my tank I believe (I'll confirm tonight with scope). I can see my stylo and a chalice starting to look a bit stressed and there is a very small amount of brown on the edges of these corals. These were my canary in the coal mine corals that I put in here specifically to test and see if I had this menace beat or not.

Was hoping I had this beat when I saw the hair algae start. Bleh!

What is everyone's opinions on the Dr. Tims method? I see a few people mentioning it but is there any examples of it working?

I am gonna start a second blackout period tonight to try and hit them before they can get a foothold again.

 

[taricha]

If you are adding bacteria as part of the dino battle, would it make sense to use a turkey baster to target squirt the bacteria liquid to locations you have had dino issues (sand... rock)? Or just dump the bacteria liquid in the tank and it will do just as well?

You may want to target some of it, but often problems that look bad in one place exist everywhere in a system, but at lower levels. I'd definitely make sure some of my bacterial product is spread around.

exporting the DINOs from the tank is absolutely critical in the process of getting rid of them entirely. If you are not exporting them using methods such as filter floss, vacuuming, etc then you need to start. Concentrating only on what you add to the tank is not enough for many people to succeed in this fight.

Amen.

What is everyone's opinions on the Dr. Tims method? I see a few people mentioning it but is there any examples of it working?

It has worked for some people, but every method has some successful users, so I would keep an open mind.

I haven't messed with Dr. Tim's Refresh, but waste-away definitely consumes a lot of grunge and likely changes the food dynamics within a sand/rock substrate in ways that would be helpful for fighting dinos. especially sandbed types.

 

[drawman]

I will be on day 3 of dosing Waste away after using Refresh with a blackout. Dinos and cyano were definitely knocked back considerably but are still there. Also I will say the water clarity is night and day better. The few SPS that I have did not like the 3 day blackout but so it goes.

 

[drawman]

Glass and bare bottom still have a hefty amount of cyano and dinos with the light back on for a few days.

Looks like I'm going to go with the UV sterilizer. Can anyone comment on if the wiper if helpful at all? I saw Julian Sprung had a wiper rust on him so I guess one more point of failure. I'm not entirely sure that my dinos completely go into the water even though they are ostreopsis so hopefully it helps.

 

[dwest]

Glass and bare bottom still have a hefty amount of cyano and dinos with the light back on for a few days.

Looks like I'm going to go with the UV sterilizer. Can anyone comment on if the wiper if helpful at all? I saw Julian Sprung had a wiper rust on him so I guess one more point of failure. I'm not entirely sure that my dinos completely go into the water even though they are ostreopsis so hopefully it helps.

I didn’t get the wiper for exactly the same reason. Good luck.