Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[ScottB]

Hello everyone! “Long Time reader, first time posting”.... First off, thank you all for sharing all the fun you’re having with Dinos!

I’m hoping someone can help me ID these buggers... I’m thinking procentrum. They remain in the sand bed when the lights are on & migrate to the water column when the lights ramp down/turn off. Manual removal every other day has more or less kept them off the rock work & corals but within 48 hrs the tank is looking like I'm back to square one.

I plan on purchasing/installing a Pentair Aquatics Smart UV 25w sterilizer (about $400 on brs) but I’m wondering if anyone has a different 1 they’ve installed to a Protozoa flow that they would recommend? Preferably less expensive!

In addition to the UV I’m going to open up the roller-mat (allow higher amounts of gunk to bypass the felt pads of the roller-mat) & increase coral & fish feeding.

My pH ranged from 7.7-7.9 for the past few months, I’m slowly bringing it up, currently 7.9-8.1 (goal is 8.2-8.4 by the end of January)

Tank overview :
Red Sea 425 xl (roughly 95 gals water, 80ish lbs of sand, 80ish lbs of Caribsea Life rock.

Tough call on the ID; I am torn. I will attach the ID guide for you to judge for yourself. Good UV are expensive, sorry. While you have your wallet exposed, maybe order some NeoNitrate and NeoPhos along with a Red Sea nitrate test kit and Hanna ULR Phosphate checker. Avoid aminos and water changes for a while.

And........ WELCOME TO R2R!

 

[Seanybaggs123]

Tough call on the ID; I am torn. I will attach the ID guide for you to judge for yourself. Good UV are expensive, sorry. While you have your wallet exposed, maybe order some NeoNitrate and NeoPhos along with a Red Sea nitrate test kit and Hanna ULR Phosphate checker. Avoid aminos and water changes for a while.

And........ WELCOME TO R2R!

Thank you so much for the ID guide!

UV will be a last resort for me. Not something I care to own or spend money on unless it eventually means that or tearing down the tank. I've heard of others success without it, so going to give that a go.

I have the Red sea nitrate test, and a cheaper phosphate test and both were zero.

Can I ask why I shouldn't water change?

Also, this is going to sound like a stupid question, but how do you take a picture through a microscope?

 

[DesertReefT4r]

I took this sample from the rock structure. The highest part since it was easy to get. It’s in the glass, sand rocks corals...

Probably coolia or ostreopsis then, amphidinium stays in the sand.

 

[ScottB]

Thank you so much for the ID guide!

UV will be a last resort for me. Not something I care to own or spend money on unless it eventually means that or tearing down the tank. I've heard of others success without it, so going to give that a go.

I have the Red sea nitrate test, and a cheaper phosphate test and both were zero.

Can I ask why I shouldn't water change?

Also, this is going to sound like a stupid question, but how do you take a picture through a microscope?

WCs remove the nutrients you are trying to restock in the system. Most of us have experienced a Dino acceleration following WC.

shooting a video thru the scope is no picnic but any smart phone can do it. Zoom and everything. I bought a phone cradle that mounts onto the scope cause I could not keep it steady enough.

 

[Brian barranco]

Okay so dinos came recently. After fighting hair algae for a month. I had high phosphates and high nitrates. I started to do research & I put in a refuge inside my tank. After weeks . Chaeto grew . Exported all nutrients. I didn’t think it suck up the nutrients fast. Seeing hair algae dying . I thought I won until I got Dino’s . I can’t seem to raise phosphate. Hair algae sucking it up fast. Should I transfer corals to another tank? Seem very bothered. How can I bring up phosphate.i know by feeding . But I have bond pair of clownfishes. About 1.5 years old. So I can’t feed a lot where I can see a increase of phosphate. I’m using stump remove to raise my nitrates. Which it did . I turned off my fuge. Black out is the next move ? Ik u need to start by microscope. But I don’t have the funds to buy. I’m high school student.asking the biology teacher if I can on Monday.

 

[Brian barranco]

 

[KGrizzel]

Tough call on the ID; I am torn. I will attach the ID guide for you to judge for yourself. Good UV are expensive, sorry. While you have your wallet exposed, maybe order some NeoNitrate and NeoPhos along with a Red Sea nitrate test kit and Hanna ULR Phosphate checker. Avoid aminos and water changes for a while.

And........ WELCOME TO R2R!

Tough call on the ID; I am torn. I will attach the ID guide for you to judge for yourself. Good UV are expensive, sorry. While you have your wallet exposed, maybe order some NeoNitrate and NeoPhos along with a Red Sea nitrate test kit and Hanna ULR Phosphate checker. Avoid aminos and water changes for a while.

And........ WELCOME TO R2R!

Thanks for the guide @ScottB - I actually have both of those test kits! I should of included in my parameters in my original post. These are the parameters rough averages I’ve logged on the Apex.

Salinity - 35ppm
dkH - 9.5 (Hannah)
pH - 8.1 (Apex)
Ca - 430 (Hannah)
NO3 - 0.5ish (Red Sea)
PO4 - .09 (Hannah Phosphate ULR)
Mg - 1,500 (Red Sea test kit, I’m not certain why they’re so high... using Fritz Reef Pro salt mix)
Always using 0-1 TDS water
Temp - 79F

I have a Seachem Silicate test kit, just haven’t used it yet.

After reviewing the guide I’m leaning towards Small Cell Amphidinium. They’re very quick swimmers & travel in frequent spirals (I assume chasing food?)

 

[Seanybaggs123]

WCs remove the nutrients you are trying to restock in the system. Most of us have experienced a Dino acceleration following WC.

shooting a video thru the scope is no picnic but any smart phone can do it. Zoom and everything. I bought a phone cradle that mounts onto the scope cause I could not keep it steady enough.

following thatlogic, should I turn my skimmer off and reduce the amount of chaeto I have in my five? (There’s a lot haha)

 

[ScottB]

following thatlogic, should I turn my skimmer off and reduce the amount of chaeto I have in my five? (There’s a lot haha)

No and yes IMO.

I like the gas exchange the skimmer performs. I run it pretty dry and dump it back in the sump unless it gets real old on me. (my skimmer recirculates CO2 scrubbed air too on that system as my pH is otherwise kinda low.)

Yes, I cut back my macro to a small ball but kept the reverse schedule light running. My thinking was pods & pH still matter.

 

[Seanybaggs123]

No and yes IMO.

I like the gas exchange the skimmer performs. I run it pretty dry and dump it back in the sump unless it gets real old on me. (my skimmer recirculates CO2 scrubbed air too on that system as my pH is otherwise kinda low.)

Yes, I cut back my macro to a small ball but kept the reverse schedule light running. My thinking was pods & pH still matter.

I’m just thinking that if I don’t want to remove nutrients... fastest water to let them break down is to turn off the machine that removes them from the system?

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Yeah you need to use a microscope and ID them under at least 400x magnification. Teacher should be cool with it, make a learning experience out of it. By your vid it looks like ostreopsis dinoflagellates but thats just a guess. You can get a cheap microscope off Amazon for under $20, mow a few lawns of reef tank funding. Dosing Brightwell Neo Phos will raise po4. Also decreasing the light on the fuge will help slow it down and decrease nutrient export. Bacteria dosing helps as well.

 

[Brian barranco]

Yeah you need to use a microscope and ID them under at least 400x magnification. Teacher should be cool with it, make a learning experience out of it. By your vid it looks like ostreopsis dinoflagellates but thats just a guess. You can get a cheap microscope off Amazon for under $20, mow a few lawns of reef tank funding. Dosing Brightwell Neo Phos will raise po4. Also decreasing the light on the fuge will help slow it down and decrease nutrient export. Bacteria dosing helps as well.

I recently order vibrant . Would that help or I get bio spira

 

[Cro55bonez]

Please help. I cannot get rid of this stuff. I did 3 days blackout and it seemed to be gone and then comes back again. Bought GFO that’s made no impact. Water changes weekly. Even dosing Red Sea algae management. What am I doing wrong? Too much? Not enough?

 

[ScottB]

Please help. I cannot get rid of this stuff. I did 3 days blackout and it seemed to be gone and then comes back again. Bought GFO that’s made no impact. Water changes weekly. Even dosing Red Sea algae management. What am I doing wrong? Too much? Not enough?

Take a pic under white lights, tell us your PO4 and NO3 numbers and age of tank so we can figure this out.

 

[Sebae]

Hi everyone,

I have not kept up with this thread but wanted to chime is as I was successful in beating a dino outbreak yet again in my 300 gallon display using the same technique I had previously used. I turned my skimmer off, did a 3 day blackout, and heavily dosed microbacter7 (1L the first day) and 360 mL of microbacter clean). The dosing was spread out over the course of the day.

I am now dosing about 100 mL of each per day. They seem to have nearly completely gone away in less than a week. Going forward I'm going to be dosing these products, or other probiotic supplements, weekly to hopefully avoid future outbreaks.

NO3 are about 10 and phosphate about 0.44 ppm. I would highly recommend getting some potassium phosphate monobasic to anyone looking to increase PO4. It is far more effective than buying brightwell neophos and seems to impact potassium levels less.

Hope this helps someone out there. I know dinos can be soul sundering.

 

[ScottB]

Hi everyone,

I have not kept up with this thread but wanted to chime is as I was successful in beating a dino outbreak yet again in my 300 gallon display using the same technique I had previously used. I turned my skimmer off, did a 3 day blackout, and heavily dosed microbacter7 (1L the first day) and 360 mL of microbacter clean). The dosing was spread out over the course of the day.

I am now dosing about 100 mL of each per day. They seem to have nearly completely gone away in less than a week. Going forward I'm going to be dosing these products, or other probiotic supplements, weekly to hopefully avoid future outbreaks.

NO3 are about 10 and phosphate about 0.44 ppm. I would highly recommend getting some potassium phosphate monobasic to anyone looking to increase PO4. It is far more effective than buying brightwell neophos and seems to impact potassium levels less.

Hope this helps someone out there. I know dinos can be soul sundering.

Glad to hear you beat them back. Can you tell us what dino species this method worked for?

 

[Sebae]

Glad to hear you beat them back. Can you tell us what dino species this method worked for?

Ostreopsis is what I've had in the past based on microscope ID. I did not put this outbreak under a scope. It did look a bit different from my past outbreaks so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a different species.

 

[xaflatoonx]

Ostreopsis is what I've had in the past based on microscope ID. I did not put this outbreak under a scope. It did look a bit different from my past outbreaks so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a different species.

if you have some left can you please do us all a favor and confirm the species.
Problem with Dino’s is it’s multiple species and different cures for each. You have posted a detail cure but without identification of which type of Dino’s - it’s not much help. A guy who has a type that gets cured with uV only can do blackouts and dose all that you said day in and out and it won’t work for him.

 

[Cro55bonez]

Take a pic under white lights, tell us your PO4 and NO3 numbers and age of tank so we can figure this out.

That is under white lights, my phone just sucks taking pics in LED lights. I will try to take a better one when I get back home and accurate measurements. Age of tank is about 5 months.

 

[KGrizzel]

Probably coolia or ostreopsis then, amphidinium stays in the sand.

I was under the impression that small cell amphidinium migrated to the water column at night & were great swimmers?