Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Potatohead]

Brought a sample from my tank to work because I thought we had a pretty trick microscope - But this is the highest zoom it will do

They are mostly on the sandbed, I do also get some on the rocks but it mainly grows on any remaining turf algae on the rocks, which is not all that much. Where coralline grows, this stuff doesn't. About 80% of it goes away after lights out. It also doesn't really get snotty with the bubbles like some real bad cases you see, it's more like dust.

I have 70g of water volume and am *this* close to buying either a 24w Green Killing Machine or a 55w Jebao (prefer the former unless it isn't big enough?) but I was hoping to verify it it would help or not before purchasing. I guess it cannot hurt at this point.

Well, I bought a 24w UV (70 gallons total volume) and after 24 hours, not much change. It's not worse but I also don't think it's a ton better. Maybe a little bit. I basted my entire tank tonight to kick up as much as I can and will see how it goes in the coming days I guess. Pump on the UV is really quite slow flow, so it may take some time. If this doesn't work I'm not sure what to do next, may just remove sand altogether, but I'd prefer not to.

 

[Rwade]

So what’s the plan of attack, raise ph, nitrates and uv?
PH 8.2
NO3 2.5
PO4 .05

 

[dwest]

Well, I bought a 24w UV (70 gallons total volume) and after 24 hours, not much change. It's not worse but I also don't think it's a ton better. Maybe a little bit. I basted my entire tank tonight to kick up as much as I can and will see how it goes in the coming days I guess. Pump on the UV is really quite slow flow, so it may take some time. If this doesn't work I'm not sure what to do next, may just remove sand altogether, but I'd prefer not to.

I haven’t been following this thread much lately. However, I had amphidinium dinos. I tried UV and elevated nutrients with very limited success. Then I removed my sand and that is when my tank turned for the better. I don’t like the bare bottom look, but it is waaay better than fighting dinos. JME. Good luck.

Oh, one last thing...I think there are people fighting these now with bacteria products like mb7, while keeping their sand.

 

[Potatohead]

I always keep some MB7 around. Are there specifics as to what people are trying?

 

[dwest]

I honestly don’t know.

Hey @saltyhog didn’t you use bacteria as part of your amphidinium fight? Do you have any words of wisdom for @Potatohead?

 

[saltyhog]

I honestly don’t know.

Hey @saltyhog didn’t you use bacteria as part of your amphidinium fight? Do you have any words of wisdom for @Potatohead?

I did. I used both Microbacter7 and Dr. Tim's Waste Away. Do keep an eye on your PO4 with bacteria supplements...Waste Away decreased my PO4....at least short term. I turned my skimmer and UV off for a couple of hours after dosing.

I've also talked to people who used ATM Colony in conjunctions with Microbacter.

I also added pods a couple of times.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Well, I bought a 24w UV (70 gallons total volume) and after 24 hours, not much change. It's not worse but I also don't think it's a ton better. Maybe a little bit. I basted my entire tank tonight to kick up as much as I can and will see how it goes in the coming days I guess. Pump on the UV is really quite slow flow, so it may take some time. If this doesn't work I'm not sure what to do next, may just remove sand altogether, but I'd prefer not to.

I too had to remove all the sand to finally resolve the core issues of amphidinium. Tank turned around almost right away. Bacteria dosing was not effective in my case at all. Ostreopsis showed up shortly after though, UV and bacteriamhas been very effective, UV is the biggest part I think.

 

[Potatohead]

I too had to remove all the sand to finally resolve the core issues of amphidinium. Tank turned around almost right away. Bacteria dosing was not effective in my case at all. Ostreopsis showed up shortly after though, UV and bacteriamhas been very effective, UV is the biggest part I think.

Ok

Came home from work today and sand still is the same. So I think LCA in my case is pretty much a given. There is less on the rocks and my overflow where it grew before, so maybe UV is helping a bit or maybe I have two different types. In any event I have MB7 on hand so I will probably try that and maybe pick up some spongexcel too. I have been dosing phosphate for a few weeks now trying to get it up. I also saw some guys put chaeto above the dinos on the sand and that really helped so I might try that, my tank grows chaeto like mad.

I have a melanurus wrasse so I am hesitant to remove sand but if all the above fails I will probably do so and maybe just leave some in the back corner behind some rocks or something.

 

[Yuusaku]

Can someone please tell me if these are diatom or Dino?
A few spots are pretty slimy, and there are bubbles everywhere on the rocks

I am trying the filtering method at the moment too.

 

[dwest]

Can someone please tell me if these are diatom or Dino?
A few spots are pretty slimy, and there are bubbles everywhere on the rocks

I am trying the filtering method at the moment too.

I can’t tell for sure. I would get a cheap microscope from amazon and take a look.

 

[BeejReef]

So, quick question.

I have dino. No idea why. Had .1 or above P and 5-10N, but whatev. Came back from Xmas travels and had them. They break up at night. Manual removal, bubble scrubbing, MB7, H20... all for about a week and they're 90% gone. Very manageable, but how to keep my foot on their neck and send them back to hades permanently? Thinking a blackout as well?

Also, key question. Always hear about keeping detectable P. Ofc, it drops when dosing MB7, Vibrant, or similar.

If the idea is that these heterotrophic bac outcompete the dino, then should I not let N and P fall to undetectable when treating with these bottled bac products so the bac can, indeed, win the fight over the last scraps..... or are you supposed to continue to dose N and P to maintain them in a detectable range?

If so, will there not still be an ample supply for the dinos to not starve and go away?

 

[ScottB]

Can someone confirm this species for me?? I cant decide... I have one patch left in the corner...

That is Procentrum.

 

[ScottB]

Can someone please tell me if these are diatom or Dino?
A few spots are pretty slimy, and there are bubbles everywhere on the rocks

I am trying the filtering method at the moment too.

Your rock looks quite new. How old is your system? If less than 6 months or so, this is just part of the new tank uglies.

 

[Potatohead]

So, quick question.

I have dino. No idea why. Had .1 or above P and 5-10N, but whatev. Came back from Xmas travels and had them. They break up at night. Manual removal, bubble scrubbing, MB7, H20... all for about a week and they're 90% gone. Very manageable, but how to keep my foot on their neck and send them back to hades permanently? Thinking a blackout as well?

Also, key question. Always hear about keeping detectable P. Ofc, it drops when dosing MB7, Vibrant, or similar.

If the idea is that these heterotrophic bac outcompete the dino, then should I not let N and P fall to undetectable when treating with these bottled bac products so the bac can, indeed, win the fight over the last scraps..... or are you supposed to continue to dose N and P to maintain them in a detectable range?

If so, will there not still be an ample supply for the dinos to not starve and go away?

I am continuing to dose P. My nitrate is always in the 5-8 range but my P is always very low. Dosing up to about .08 range (or at least trying) while also treating with MB7 and UV. If it doesn't show progress after 10-14 days I will probably start removing sand.

 

[Stephers]

That is Procentrum.

Thank you. These things are the worst. Almost gone finally... diatoms have taken over their old spots

 

[ScottB]

So, quick question.

I have dino. No idea why. Had .1 or above P and 5-10N, but whatev. Came back from Xmas travels and had them. They break up at night. Manual removal, bubble scrubbing, MB7, H20... all for about a week and they're 90% gone. Very manageable, but how to keep my foot on their neck and send them back to hades permanently? Thinking a blackout as well?

Also, key question. Always hear about keeping detectable P. Ofc, it drops when dosing MB7, Vibrant, or similar.

If the idea is that these heterotrophic bac outcompete the dino, then should I not let N and P fall to undetectable when treating with these bottled bac products so the bac can, indeed, win the fight over the last scraps..... or are you supposed to continue to dose N and P to maintain them in a detectable range?

If so, will there not still be an ample supply for the dinos to not starve and go away?

Low nutrient is most often a precursor to dinos, but you are not the first I've heard of that got them with sufficient nutrient.

I have not used bacteria against dinos, just UV and nutrients against ostreopsis. The primary purpose of a blackout is to get the dinos swimming and going through the UV -- their version of Hades.

As to maintaining elevated (or at least measurable) NO3 and PO4 levels, that is certainly the standard protocol. For me, even a month after my dinos were "gone" they came pack to party hard when I took my UV down and my doser ran dry on PO4.

 

[BeejReef]

Low nutrient is most often a precursor to dinos, but you are not the first I've heard of that got them with sufficient nutrient.

I have not used bacteria against dinos, just UV and nutrients against ostreopsis. The primary purpose of a blackout is to get the dinos swimming and going through the UV -- their version of Hades.

As to maintaining elevated (or at least measurable) NO3 and PO4 levels, that is certainly the standard protocol. For me, even a month after my dinos were "gone" they came pack to party hard when I took my UV down and my doser ran dry on PO4.

Ty both.

If I had to guess, the trigger was that my fuge light stayed on 24/7 for about 8 days. I neglected to put it back into timer mode on the way out the door over Xmas. Even so, nothing came near zero. There was also a change in diet from frozen to flake and pellet w a tiny bit of coral food mixed in to auto feeder.

My battle is def winnable. I'm guessing that sustained effort will carry the day, but will do UV if no other way. Would def like UV to be a temporary thing though.

 

[ScottB]

Ty both.

If I had to guess, the trigger was that my fuge light stayed on 24/7 for about 8 days. I neglected to put it back into timer mode on the way out the door over Xmas. Even so, nothing came near zero. There was also a change in diet from frozen to flake and pellet w a tiny bit of coral food mixed in to auto feeder.

My battle is def winnable. I'm guessing that sustained effort will carry the day, but will do UV if no other way. Would def like UV to be a temporary thing though.

Certainly sounds like a plausible explanation, just a quick shift in nutrient levels. For 4 of the 5 species we see, UV is a solid fix. Mine is no longer running, but I keep nutrients relatively high now (for me anyway).

 

[Yuusaku]

Your rock looks quite new. How old is your system? If less than 6 months or so, this is just part of the new tank uglies.

Yes it is still under 6 months old. So I guess I dont need to worry about if it's dino or cyano then?!
Thanks in advance!

 

[Neoalchemist]

For amphidimium I dosed silicates to iduce a moderate diatom bloom. Diatoms are direct visible competition that seems to prefer same spots in the tank as dino.
Still have my sand. Dinos havent been a problem for more than a year.
At one point I had orstreopsis, prorocentrum, amphidimium and even spotted one or two coolia. All undetectable now.
Things that work are,

Manual removal (not filtering, I mean water change removal. I filtered down to 1 micron socks and the dinos went right through the socks) I would remove as much sand as nessicary to get all dinos, clean and sun dry sand and return it a couple cups at a time

Nutrient management, dosing po4, no3 and sodium silicate.( no3 at 5 minimum and po4 at .06 minimum, algea can be your friend.)

Black outs (not a cure but knocks thier numbers down and causes them to attempt to change locations and forces them shift thier metabolism)

Uv (uv works, if its slow to show try tweaking the flow or intake location, not as good against amphidimium but still kills them
1/3watt per gallon minimum at around 200 gph.

Dr tims re-fresh (visibly scoured dinos off of surfaces where they had a weak foothold)

Adding some bio-media from another established source,( live rock or sand from another tank, cheato, pods. Anything you add from another tank fall into this catagory)

I tried almost everything mentioned in this and the old dino thread. And most either didnt make a difference had a negative affect or werent practicle.

P.s. I may add to this if i think of something I forgot.
Also, pm questions are welcome.