Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

pharazon

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Hello again my fellow dino battlers.

I’ve been using the microscope I purchased to identify and beat my own dino problem to help other hobbyists identify theirs. Luckily, we’ve mostly seen ostreopsis and UV has done the trick. This one has me stumped though.

Would love an opinion on the pics below!
22C63164-173E-4029-B77A-CD7D3A91581C.jpeg
2D9EF135-890E-465E-BA22-416C8273529D.jpeg
DCCB75D5-F7C9-4AD7-B321-9903661D568A.jpeg


They definitely seem to have a dino like “shape” and color but aren’t as well defined like our sesame-seed nemesis. Is it possible they started to break down in the sample vial? It did get pretty warm being carried in my pocket. The hobbyist from whom they came has also done several different treatments, so perhaps they were weakened prior to collection?

Let me know what you think!
 

Cwentz758

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So I haven’t identified my strain with a microscope but I’ve dabbled in a few things. First my sand is just brown and comes back within hours of water change with sand sucking. It’s started on the rock now which easily brushes off with a toothbrush or yesterday mostly blew off with a turkey baster. I’ve been dosing MB7 about 2 weeks and running a UV for about 10 days now to no effect. I’ve seen some research about raising the temp to 82 degrees which currently with the heat my tank has crept to 81... debating on letting it continue.
My next plan of action was buying a pod pack from algae barn with the macro algae bottle. Along with Neo Nitro from Brightwell as my nitrates according to the Red Sea kit are 2ppm or less and my phosphates we around .33 (I have GFO and usually drop them in the .1 -.2 range. I’m guessing I’ve bottomed my nitrates out and this algae just takes over. Hoping the pods will eat what they can and help my bio load.
Comment concerns ideas?

F96FB49B-A482-440C-91C0-ACF1FB42F427.jpeg
 

Marc2952

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So I haven’t identified my strain with a microscope but I’ve dabbled in a few things. First my sand is just brown and comes back within hours of water change with sand sucking. It’s started on the rock now which easily brushes off with a toothbrush or yesterday mostly blew off with a turkey baster. I’ve been dosing MB7 about 2 weeks and running a UV for about 10 days now to no effect. I’ve seen some research about raising the temp to 82 degrees which currently with the heat my tank has crept to 81... debating on letting it continue.
My next plan of action was buying a pod pack from algae barn with the macro algae bottle. Along with Neo Nitro from Brightwell as my nitrates according to the Red Sea kit are 2ppm or less and my phosphates we around .33 (I have GFO and usually drop them in the .1 -.2 range. I’m guessing I’ve bottomed my nitrates out and this algae just takes over. Hoping the pods will eat what they can and help my bio load.
Comment concerns ideas?

F96FB49B-A482-440C-91C0-ACF1FB42F427.jpeg
Im hearing lots of good stuff by increasing the temp to 82.6, some people have told me that they disappear within a week. Perhaps the reason many people back then never had dinos is due to the fact that their tanks ran hot due to MH.
 

ScottB

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Hello again my fellow dino battlers.

I’ve been using the microscope I purchased to identify and beat my own dino problem to help other hobbyists identify theirs. Luckily, we’ve mostly seen ostreopsis and UV has done the trick. This one has me stumped though.

Would love an opinion on the pics below!
22C63164-173E-4029-B77A-CD7D3A91581C.jpeg
2D9EF135-890E-465E-BA22-416C8273529D.jpeg
DCCB75D5-F7C9-4AD7-B321-9903661D568A.jpeg


They definitely seem to have a dino like “shape” and color but aren’t as well defined like our sesame-seed nemesis. Is it possible they started to break down in the sample vial? It did get pretty warm being carried in my pocket. The hobbyist from whom they came has also done several different treatments, so perhaps they were weakened prior to collection?

Let me know what you think!

This is tough. They look damaged or deformed. Was there any movement visible? They are so misshapen but I feel like I see two species, which is not uncommon. Curious what others see here, but this is what I got:

First image, at about 7:30 near the edge ... ostreopsis
Second image, just left of dead center ... procentrum
Third image at about 9:00 ... ostreopsis
 

Salt Addiction

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So when they mentioned 'excess bio media' is that in regards to dissolved nutrients or waste? Or literal bio media such as too many Marine Pure blocks, etc. I didn't think you could have too much bio filtration media so I have loaded my tanks with as much as possible, one of which is currently dealing with a dino outbreak.
 

jayala12

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So I hope this isn’t a silly question but here we go.
when I take a sample of Dino’s. Do I take actual string of it or just the water from my tank and put it on the slide ? Thanks
 

pharazon

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This is tough. They look damaged or deformed. Was there any movement visible? They are so misshapen but I feel like I see two species, which is not uncommon. Curious what others see here, but this is what I got:

First image, at about 7:30 near the edge ... ostreopsis
Second image, just left of dead center ... procentrum
Third image at about 9:00 ... ostreopsis

No movement at all, and I agree they look damaged. I couldn’t find a single sesame seed though, and with how many there were in the sample, I would’ve expected at least one to retain its shape.

As I mentioned, the sample vial was warm to the touch. 80-90 degrees wouldn’t surprise me. Perhaps worth noting with the recent development of elevated temps being a potential eradication method.
 

Marc2952

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Update on the dinos, they are slowly coming back but not nearly as strong since ive added the fini mud and dr tims waste away, the skimmer is on but i removed the head so its just there for gas exchange. Also there are no dinos on the rocks anymore just on the sand but they do not dissapear in the night strangely. Also couldnt post the video for some reason but as you can see they only pop up in some parts of the sand.
Screenshot_20200526-141224_Video Player.jpg
Screenshot_20200526-141234_Video Player.jpg
Screenshot_20200526-141252_Video Player.jpg
Screenshot_20200526-141304_Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20200526-141324_Video Player.jpg
 

taricha

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No movement at all, and I agree they look damaged. I couldn’t find a single sesame seed though, and with how many there were in the sample, I would’ve expected at least one to retain its shape.
This one did
Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 1.12.33 PM.png

The rest are what dinos look like after they are dead, or if you smash them with a slide cover.

Please tell me it’s the easiest to get rid of
It is! congrats.
 

Putrescine

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I posted originally my long Dino post #9017 on May 9. I have been dealing with primarily Large Cell Amphidinum and a smaller amount of Ostreopsis at this point. May 7 was the start of my tank increase to 82.2F, and this post will update my battle up to today.

I have all frags at this point for coral, none are larger that the frag plug that that originally came on. Four of them are SPS, Four are LPS, and the rest are Zoas, Ricordea, and Shrooms (which are the only ones doing just fine).

Tank started October 5, 2019 - Red Sea Reefer 525XL - 139 Gal total volume.
All Dry Rock. Sandless (pulled sandbed back in January 2020 when I had a large outbreak of Prorocentrum).
Neptune Trident to monitor Alk, Ca, Mg (7.6-8, 425-435, 1300-1320 respectively)
Using 55W Jebao UV Sterilizer Piped Directly into the Display since January 2020

Last Water Change 25% was on April 26 - Red Sea Blue
Nitrates 20-25 through this period - Salifert No dosing required
Phosphates 0.16-0.21 - Hanna ULR No dosing required

May 7 - Tank Increased slowly from 79F to 82.2F over 24 hours. NoPox slowly weaned off - was running at 1/4 of the recommended dose for a mixed reef through a Neptune DOS pump.
May 8 - Order of 20 Frags of SPS, LPS, Zoas as a tester to see how my 7 month old tank does.
May 9 - Make post, only seeing scant 2-4 Large Cell Amphidinum and no browning of the rocks. Start Dosing Reef Roids to SPS, Reef Energy A and B again (1/4 of the measured dose for my tank).
May 10 - Started Adding Microbacter 7 again, Turning off UV and Skimmer for 4 hours like the instructions say. Last dose of Vibrant 1ml/10gal dose goes in.

May 11 - 15 - Reef Roids every other day, reef energy A + B every other day.

May 16 - Look at the microscope again and see 1-2 Ostreopsis and 1-2 Large Cell Amphidinum in five low power 80X fields. I drop my temp back to 79 over 24 hours having done nine days of the 82.2F temp.

May 20 - My 800W Finnex heater takes a dump, and I put a 200W in its place for now since the weather is hotter. Start seeing increased Ostreopsis and Amphidinum from random glass samples and samples from where I see bubbles on the rocks from the end of the day.

I start taking a toothbrush to all the rock surfaces to rub off any type of algae covering twice a day and the rocks look great. Change out the filter floss each day.

May 22 - 9 Gallon (7 percent) mini water change.

May 23 - In the early AM before the lights come on, but the ambient light in the room lights the tank, theres about a total of the surface area of a quarter of brown sprinkled on the rock on the bottom 2-3" of the tank. I test this and see a combination of Ostreopsis and Amphidinum once again. This area is not evident at night at all which screams DINOS to me.

May 23-24 - I again heat my water up over 24 hours up to 83F this time. Stop scrubbing the rocks. Place Filter Floss in high flow areas, squeeze it out and look at it under the microscope again to see living Large Cell Amphidinum and Ostreopsis.

May 25 - Changed out my activated carbon for a fresh batch.

May 26 - No visible evidence of Dinos on the rocks. Microscope shows living Ostreopsis and Amphidinum in similar low concentrations 1-2 cells per low power field.

So now im at:
Temp 83F, which I plan on continuing for the foreseeable future.
Nitrate 25 (no dosing)
Phosphate 0.2 (no dosing)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Alk 7.6-7.74 (4ml/day of dosing)
Ca 430-435 (no dosing)
Mg 1300-1305 (no dosing)
No Reef Energy A + B since May 15
No Reef Roids since May 15
No more toothbrushing or blowing rocks since May 22
Last water Change 7% was May 22, with no plans to do it soon.
Using Filter Floss Daily in high flow areas until I see minimal to no dinos when squeezing out and washing the floss.
Lights are 9am-6pm with ramp-up. AI Hydra 26's and 52's on an AB+ program with no Red/Green light.
Dosing Algae Barn Oceanmagik Phyto daily, and Microbacter 7.

These are the boys I saw this morning from my squeeze out and rinse of my floss near my powerheads on 800X magnification.

 

Marc2952

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I posted originally my long Dino post #9017 on May 9. I have been dealing with primarily Large Cell Amphidinum and a smaller amount of Ostreopsis at this point. May 7 was the start of my tank increase to 82.2F, and this post will update my battle up to today.

I have all frags at this point for coral, none are larger that the frag plug that that originally came on. Four of them are SPS, Four are LPS, and the rest are Zoas, Ricordea, and Shrooms (which are the only ones doing just fine).

Tank started October 5, 2019 - Red Sea Reefer 525XL - 139 Gal total volume.
All Dry Rock. Sandless (pulled sandbed back in January 2020 when I had a large outbreak of Prorocentrum).
Neptune Trident to monitor Alk, Ca, Mg (7.6-8, 425-435, 1300-1320 respectively)
Using 55W Jebao UV Sterilizer Piped Directly into the Display since January 2020

Last Water Change 25% was on April 26 - Red Sea Blue
Nitrates 20-25 through this period - Salifert No dosing required
Phosphates 0.16-0.21 - Hanna ULR No dosing required

May 7 - Tank Increased slowly from 79F to 82.2F over 24 hours. NoPox slowly weaned off - was running at 1/4 of the recommended dose for a mixed reef through a Neptune DOS pump.
May 8 - Order of 20 Frags of SPS, LPS, Zoas as a tester to see how my 7 month old tank does.
May 9 - Make post, only seeing scant 2-4 Large Cell Amphidinum and no browning of the rocks. Start Dosing Reef Roids to SPS, Reef Energy A and B again (1/4 of the measured dose for my tank).
May 10 - Started Adding Microbacter 7 again, Turning off UV and Skimmer for 4 hours like the instructions say. Last dose of Vibrant 1ml/10gal dose goes in.

May 11 - 15 - Reef Roids every other day, reef energy A + B every other day.

May 16 - Look at the microscope again and see 1-2 Ostreopsis and 1-2 Large Cell Amphidinum in five low power 80X fields. I drop my temp back to 79 over 24 hours having done nine days of the 82.2F temp.

May 20 - My 800W Finnex heater takes a dump, and I put a 200W in its place for now since the weather is hotter. Start seeing increased Ostreopsis and Amphidinum from random glass samples and samples from where I see bubbles on the rocks from the end of the day.

I start taking a toothbrush to all the rock surfaces to rub off any type of algae covering twice a day and the rocks look great. Change out the filter floss each day.

May 22 - 9 Gallon (7 percent) mini water change.

May 23 - In the early AM before the lights come on, but the ambient light in the room lights the tank, theres about a total of the surface area of a quarter of brown sprinkled on the rock on the bottom 2-3" of the tank. I test this and see a combination of Ostreopsis and Amphidinum once again. This area is not evident at night at all which screams DINOS to me.

May 23-24 - I again heat my water up over 24 hours up to 83F this time. Stop scrubbing the rocks. Place Filter Floss in high flow areas, squeeze it out and look at it under the microscope again to see living Large Cell Amphidinum and Ostreopsis.

May 25 - Changed out my activated carbon for a fresh batch.

May 26 - No visible evidence of Dinos on the rocks. Microscope shows living Ostreopsis and Amphidinum in similar low concentrations 1-2 cells per low power field.

So now im at:
Temp 83F, which I plan on continuing for the foreseeable future.
Nitrate 25 (no dosing)
Phosphate 0.2 (no dosing)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Alk 7.6-7.74 (4ml/day of dosing)
Ca 430-435 (no dosing)
Mg 1300-1305 (no dosing)
No Reef Energy A + B since May 15
No Reef Roids since May 15
No more toothbrushing or blowing rocks since May 22
Last water Change 7% was May 22, with no plans to do it soon.
Using Filter Floss Daily in high flow areas until I see minimal to no dinos when squeezing out and washing the floss.
Lights are 9am-6pm with ramp-up. AI Hydra 26's and 52's on an AB+ program with no Red/Green light.
Dosing Algae Barn Oceanmagik Phyto daily, and Microbacter 7.

These are the boys I saw this morning from my squeeze out and rinse of my floss near my powerheads on 800X magnification.

Have you startes getting any GHA? Im keeping my P04 at 0.10 and nitrates at 5 and algae is starti g to grow all over the rocks.
 

taricha

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These are the boys I saw this morning from my squeeze out and rinse of my floss near my powerheads on 800X magnification.
What time did you say this was taken?
Because of the 4 Ostreopsis cells, 3 of them we can see in profile and all 3 of those look like they are undergoing cell division.
I've only seen that in samples I took at night. Researchers found peak dividing time was shortly after onset of dark period.
 

CDavmd

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UPDATE:

So I lost my midas Blenny...not sure if from the higher temps or not but I was running uptown 83.5 so I decided to narrow the temp and keep it in the 82.5 range.

I also noted that my nightly H202 dosing followed by Bacteria in the morning was resulting in a Nitrate depletion due to the Bacteria. Of note the ones most responsible for the Nitrate crash were MB7, Refresh ,waste away, and MB Clean. I did not see a major change when dosing Ecobalance. I had to actually dose Nitrates a few days to get then back above 3.

At day 7 I decided to stop the H202 and Bacteria other than Ecobalance and a few hours of UV and skimmer off.

I also continued to dose Silicates (Sponge Excel about 5 drops daily).

I stirred my sand every night and set my Apex to run pumps at full for 5 minutes every 3 hours. I also blew my rocks every couple days. I have to say the tank has never looked cleaner. My skimmer is pulling all sorts of gunk and I need to change my socks every couple days.

The sand was visibly better but with the continued dosing of silicates I started seeing brown golden dusty areas overtake the entire tank by midday and dissipate with lights off. I suspected diatoms and this was confirmed under the microscope. I am only seeing a stray Dino here and there....mainly the small cell are gone today under the microscope. I saw a couple large cell Amphidinium and 2-3 Ostreopsis but overall a significant diminution. Diatoms are everywhere as well as a variety of pods and other planktonic species. Also seeing some green fibrous tendrils on some of the sand grains which are not cyano and look like regular algae.

Overall things look better and my plan is leave my temperature here indefinitely, continue dosing silicates for another few months, maintain my Nitrate above 3 and phosphate around .1, and I will also keep the UV running for about a year.

Hopefully this will continue to be a success.

One last note....my surviving SPS are really taking off again.

Boom!! ITS JUST AN ENDLESS FUTILE CURSE!!

Just when I thought things were better......I came home today and the brown which has been mainly diatoms, just had that more golden look to it. I took a sample to the scope and AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! DINO CURSE FROM HELL!!!! NOW ITS A FREAKING PARTY....I HAVE MY EXPECTED DIATOMS, A FEW OSTREOPSIS, AND NOW LARGE CELL AMPHIDINIUM HAS BECOME THE PREDOMINANT SPECIES!!!!! I JUST WANT TO SCREAM!!

My Temps are at 82.5 and have been 82.5-83.3 for close to 3-4 weeks! MY Nitrates are in the 8-10 range, phosphates are .1-.2, I'm siphoning through a 1 micron filter daily, I stopped the H2O2 at day 7....everything looked better and Bam now this garbage.

I just really don't get it and I think all of our theories and ideas are fundamentally flawed at some level. I have green algae, my nutrients in this system never bottom'd out....all I did was add a little extra sand and this scourge has ruined my carefully thought out and executed build.

In the old days, I threw the dang rocks in, corals and fish, no QT, no worries, just let things go and I never dealt with this insanity....and its not just that we're using dead rock. This system was started with real ocean live rock from KP and a mix of dead rock and still this scourge!

Something is fundamentally wrong....this has ruined and plagued the hobby....just look at these threads...they longer than War and Peace and Moby Dick put together!!!!!

I've tried every remedy on the internet....nothing works....things improve for a few days then your back to square one. I might as just get used brown sand in the evenings. Stir it up until its white, enjoy the tank for a few hours and repeat the next day. If I have folks come over I'll stir and make it look pretty....I have basically given up!!

Sorry for the rant but I know many of you are ranting right along with me. AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
 
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