Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Chrille26]

Well, today my own battle started. After noticing brown slime starting to spread on my liverock and glass I did a test of my nutrients. Turns out both nitrate and phosphate are close to or actually zero.
Even though I havent looked through a magnifier I am positive its dinos based on looks compared to all the pictures on the forum.
My first action was siphoning out all that I could see through a fine micron filtersock, then poured back the water into the sump. I will stop water changes right now since I am so low in nutrients.
I also ordered Microbacter7 and Microbe lift special blend, to start dosing bacteria. I will also try to increase my nutrients to detectable levels.
Other then that I dont really have a plan right now, I guess I will need to ID the specific strain to figure out best course of action.
Hoped this day wouldnt come, but guess its just rolling up the sleeves and get to work!

 

[DeniableArc]

Well, today my own battle started. After noticing brown slime starting to spread on my liverock and glass I did a test of my nutrients. Turns out both nitrate and phosphate are close to or actually zero.
Even though I havent looked through a magnifier I am positive its dinos based on looks compared to all the pictures on the forum.
My first action was siphoning out all that I could see through a fine micron filtersock, then poured back the water into the sump. I will stop water changes right now since I am so low in nutrients.
I also ordered Microbacter7 and Microbe lift special blend, to start dosing bacteria. I will also try to increase my nutrients to detectable levels.
Other then that I dont really have a plan right now, I guess I will need to ID the specific strain to figure out best course of action.
Hoped this day wouldnt come, but guess its just rolling up the sleeves and get to work!

G’day from Australia, For my Dino’s it was p04 depletion and it takes a lot of nutrients for the rocks and sand to absorb to equilibrium, in my case I took around 200mls of continuum unls phos and my tank is roughly 50g with lots of rock and no sand. FYI I dosed this over 3 weeks.

 

[Chrille26]

G’day from Australia, For my Dino’s it was p04 depletion and it takes a lot of nutrients for the rocks and sand to absorb to equilibrium, in my case I took around 200mls of continuum unls phos and my tank is roughly 50g with lots of rock and no sand. FYI I dosed this over 3 weeks.

Thanks for the advice! I have read that dosing po4 and no3 in pure form directly to the tank instead of overfeeding and such to increase nutrients are better since the dinos could benefit from the organics but not sure if there is any truth to that?

 

[HomeSlizzice]

Thanks for the advice! I have read that dosing po4 and no3 in pure form directly to the tank instead of overfeeding and such to increase nutrients are better since the dinos could benefit from the organics but not sure if there is any truth to that?

I know when I tried to increase nutrients by feeding alone my nitrates shot up, but my phosphates stayed at zero. So I needed to dose phosphates as a solution. I use the Seachem phosphorus because it’s one of the more affordable pre mixed solutions.

 

[Chrille26]

I know when I tried to increase nutrients by feeding alone my nitrates shot up, but my phosphates stayed at zero. So I needed to dose phosphates as a solution. I use the Seachem phosphorus because it’s one of the more affordable pre mixed solutions.

Okey thanks I will look into that right now! I just placed an order for a UV filter and pump with enough tube to pull and retun water to the display so will give that a shot also, want to stay ontop of this before it starts affecting corals and livestock.

 

[IKD]

Who wants to bet this author never had a saltwater tank?

 

[DrMMI]

This is what I've got spreading throughout my tank now. Any idea on the ID?

So far I've tried and failed UV to/from the display, raising nutrients, silica dosing, Dr. Tim's recipe, multiple 3 day black outs, microbacter 7 dosing, siphoning sand and blowing off the rocks, and changing filter socks daily. I'm about to dose my 4th dose of dino x, but so far they've continued to spread like wild fire. I just siphoned the sand and blew off the rocks again, I'm going to do another 3 day black out, and bump up the dose of the Dino X.

Has anyone used dino x and microbacter and/or H2O2 at the same time? I'm really getting frustrated here and I think it's going to take a multi-modal approach to knock this thing out.

 

[Camaro Show Corals]

So are dinos from low nutrients/ bottoming out or high?

 

[drawman]

So are dinos from low nutrients/ bottoming out or high?

Most often it is bottomed out nutrients. Not to say they won't happen with higher for some people.

 

[cdreef]

I have been battling ostreopsis for 11 months, and have tried everything.
Some of it was detrimental, some of it helped somewhat.
Now, in the eleventh month, my dino appears as a light brown film, no snottiness, could be confused for diatom. Confirmation by microscope is still ostreopsis.

When the news on raising the temperature came through I was at the temperature controller instantly pushing it up to 82.4F. I did not notice much of a change, and stopped watching attentively. Last week I looked at my tank and thought wow...this is the best it's looked for months - no dino treatments of any kind. The dino was still a little evident which made me think the temperature increase was not working for me.
On Saturday I reduced my temp back down to 78.8F. On Sunday I found my filter wool to be very brown again, but didn't think any more about it. Today I have come home from work to find a lot of brown on my gyres, rockwork and sand.
I have just re-set my temp controller to increase back to 82.4F, and I'll give it another week or two.

Having dealt with dino all this time I decided a couple of months ago to stop all the treatments completely and run my tank as if I do not have dino (but continue with good maintenance), as it's slowing down now.

I have tried:
Dino X twice, once with a bin bags as black out, once will foil black out.
Vibrant, didn't do anything meaningful.
H2O2, worked at higher levels, also foil black out, but then came back.
The dirty method: raised PO4 to 0.1ppm, and nitrate up to 25ppm, not much good but the theory is good.
Yeast, yes I've even tried active yeast.

In the end I've realised one thing: if you start your tank with dry rock unpopulated by competing organisms and algae there is a strong chance you will get dino.
Every other tank I've owned was started with Fiji Live Rock and never had this issue.
As my rock matures, becomes populated by coralline, algae and other organisms the dino is slowly diminishing (this is what the dirty method is all about - to boost rock population).

Hopefully, after increasing the temperature again I can say definitively if it makes a difference or not in a week or two.

 

[hotdrop]

Now that dinos have taken over I’m not even sure good rocks can win out due to the toxicity. Honestly not sure if it’s a tank break down situation.

 

[Chrille26]

Hi! A question regarding beneficial bacteria. I have Microbacter7 and Microbe lift special blend on hand right now, witch one should I pick to try to outcompete dinos in your opinion? Should I maybe do a blast with both?

 

[Marc2952]

Ok one more update on my dinos, after adding fiji mud about two weeks ago and maintaining my phosphates at .1 and nitrates at 5ppm they are almost all gone from the sand and completepy gone from the rocks. Idk if it was the fiji mud or just the fact that ive been dosing a TON of zeobak ( 6 drops on my 75 gallon everyday for the past 5 days ) or simply a combination of everything. Alk consumption has also increased so maybe thats good news? I am getting alot of hair algae growth though and that kinda worries me. Whats the best approach for that?

 

[Gildo]

I have a curiosity!
what are the daily consumptions of PO4 and NO3 in your tanks?

I'm starting to calculate them, for now it seems to me 0.12 ppm of PO4 and 5 ppm of NO3 day

You? how many ppm / day?

why do you think my tank consumes so many?
@taricha @ScottB

 

[Cwentz758]

Hi! A question regarding beneficial bacteria. I have Microbacter7 and Microbe lift special blend on hand right now, witch one should I pick to try to outcompete dinos in your opinion? Should I maybe do a blast with both?

I’ve been dosing MB7 for about 2-3 weeks with no significant change. If anything my Dino’s are now more prominent. I am however feeding a lot of phytoplankton and dosing nitrates to get them detectable

 

[Chrille26]

I’ve been dosing MB7 for about 2-3 weeks with no significant change. If anything my Dino’s are now more prominent. I am however feeding a lot of phytoplankton and dosing nitrates to get them detectable

Hm okey, I might hold of on adding it then, I am also adding phyto every other day right now. I just added a UV filter so will let that do its thing for a couple of days to see if it makes a difference.

Edit:
Thought I would share my 24 hour progress with UV filter on my tank. I plumbed it outside the tank with in and outlet inside the display.

Before uv:

After 24 hours of UV:

My UV setup:

I am feeling slightly positive right now, I am seeing great progress in the removal of dinos with UV, but I wont call it a victory before all is gone and not coming back.

 

[Dj City]

Detailed Update and Plan of Action...

This is on 180gal 4 month old tank. Dinos on sand, rock, glass, pumps. (Surfaces).

Nitrates...............0 - 5ppm (Closer to 5ppm)
Phos....................0.04 - 0.08
Alk.......................8.16 (Trident)
Cal.......................418 (Trident)
Mag....................1398 (Trident)
Ph.......................7.95 (Apex probe)
Salt.....................35.5 (Apex probe)
ORP....................339 (Apex probe)
Temp..................80 (Apex probe)
Nitrate test is API reagent via Reefbot
Phos test is Red Sea reagent via Reefbot.

I did a 3 day blackout with properly sized pentair aquatics smart 40watt UV running with correct flow rate.
The dinos were knocked back but as expected, they were not defeated (yet).

I am taking an aggressive multi pronged approach to this problem.
U.V.
3 day blackout
Diatomaceous earth filter
Dr Tim's Dino recipe
Dr Tim's waste away gel

I broke the quartz sleeve to my UV when I pulled it from the tank 2 weeks ago when I did my 3 day blackout with the UV.
The new quartz sleeve for my UV arrived yesterday and I put the UV back into temporary service (no blackout).
I have the feed pump in the tank and the return in the tank creating a closed loop. Pump is a Jeabo DCP15000. Pump sits about a 1/2 inch above the sandbed. PVC pipe goes from pump to top of tank (about 25 inches) through 2 90° elbows forming a "U" and down about 6ft. to the Pentair Aquatics Smart 40 watt UV.
The UV is laying horizontally on the floor in front of the tank. Water goes through the UV then back up about 6ft of PVC pipe then through 2 90° elbows forming a "U" to return water to the tank.
I am flowing 1019 gph through the UV according to apex flow meter. The UV calls for between 943 - 1574 gph to deal with algae, bacteria and dinos.
I turn all the sand over aggressively to get the dinos into the water column.
I use a Tunze 6105 on full blast to blow the rocks, sand and all surfaces. I put the pump right up to the rocks and all surfaces to make the biggest mess I can getting everything in the water column so it can go through the UV.

I have 4 Marineland Magnum polishing internal filters. Each rated for up to 97 gal tank / 290 gph. These filters will run Diatomaceous earth powder to mechanically filter dinos out.

I will be using Dr Tim's Dino recipe. This should wipe dinos out along with the other methods I am employing. The treatment consists of a 3 day blackout while dosing Dr Tim's Refresh then dosing Dr Tim's Waste Away liquid.
Once treatment is finished, Dr Tim's Waste Away gel will be employed.

This approach should kill dinos and keep em dead!

I'm not sure if I want to do the diatom filters before or after Dr. Tim's.
Maybe both.

 

[Dj City]

This is what I'm dealing with.

This is the UV set up

Anyone have thoughts or suggestions on my approach?

 

[tkdman]

gaaahhhhhhhhhhhh Dino's are back
going to try the DR. Tim's Method and let everyone know how it goes. Its not as bad as the first time, hopefully this does it. I have the large cell that likes the rocks and gravel

 

[Dj City]

Current parameters
Nitrates...............0 - 5ppm (Closer to 5ppm)
Phos....................0.04 - 0.08
Alk.......................8.6 (Trident)
Cal.......................406 (Trident)
Mag....................1357 (Trident)
Ph.......................7.79 (Apex probe) 7:30am
Salt.....................35.5 (Apex probe)
ORP....................353 (Apex probe)
Temp..................77.8 (Apex probe)
Nitrate test is API reagent via Reefbot
Phos test is Red Sea reagent via Reefbot.

I have run my lights on regular schedule for the past two days with the UV running. I will observe the tank for the next few days to see what's happening with the dinos. Yesterday tank looked good but dinos are present on overflow and powerheads. They are thin and light amount but still present.
Problem is that I can't KEEP the UV in operation like this even if it's effective. I can't have a giant return pump in my display. Running it from the sump to the sump is a waste. (See BRS UV videos)

I believe the approach I am taking is a good approach based on theory, past experiences and experiences of others.
I currently have UV running which should be reducing dinos population when I blow the rocks and sand and clean the glass to get the dinos into the water column. I plan to pull the UV in a few days and start treatment.

TREATMENT PLAN
1... Employ UV Sterilizer in closed loop
2... Remove UV to start Dr. Tim's Dino recipe
3... 3 day blackout dosing Dr. Tim's Refresh
4... Continue with Dr Tim's Waste Away liquid.
5... Use Dr. Tim's Waste Away gel in sump.

I am trying to decide when to use the heavy mechanical filtration (DE filters). Before treatment, after treatment or before and after. I will not use during because it filters down to 1 micron. I don't want Dr. Tim's bacteria getting filtered out.

This is not my 1st fight with dinos. Last battle I had was a 5 year battle on my old 110 gallon reef. DInos won.

The war I lost...
I raised nitrates and phosphates. (No good)
I used UV but did not know I was using it improperly. (No good)
Blackouts (knock them back but not good enough on its own)
Vibrant dosing. (No good)
MB7 dosing. (No good)
Peroxide dosing. (No good)
Sea cucumbers. (No good)
Stupidly high flow. (No good)
Leaving sand alone. (No good)
Surface siphoning sandbed. (No good)
Deep disturbing sandbed with heavy mechanical filtration using 5 micron socks changed every day. (Better but no good)
Feeding tank. (No good)
Starving tank. (No good)
Increase pods. (No good)
Beefed up fuge chaeto. (No good)
Decrease light intensity. (No good)
Increase light intensity. (No good)
Change light fixtures. (No good)
Sacred Indian dino dance. (No good)
9mm. (No good)
.45 ACP. (No good)
12ga. (No good)
Photon torpedo straight from the Starship Enterprise. (No good)